MP 1,1-5,1 Bring an old Mac Pro 4.1 to life

[Kostask]

Hi,

I have another post about upgrading to a dual processor from a single processor, but I think I may have jumped the gun a little bit.

Background:

I received a MacPro 4.1. It is a company cast-off, and hasn't been used in at least 6-7 years, from what I was told. There was a post-it note on it that said "start up bong, but no picture".

The machine looks OK from the outside. It has a scratch on the left side (the side that opens up), and some nicks and very small dings. Otherwise looks fine. I opened it up, and aside from being totally blown away by the build quality, looked the unit over. It is a single processor unit, it has 3 X 2GB Memory modules (DDR3-8500), and is fairly clean inside, but does have some dust. It has had all of its drive sled removed. Graphics card is a GT120.

Just for completeness, the GT120 has one mini DP port, and one DVI DL port.

Current status:

As per the post it note, it does have a start up chime, and the monitor I am using (a 27" HP) did have its front panel LED go from amber to blue (indicating sync up). There is no display of any type. I did have a wired Apple keyboard and mouse connected to the front USB port. After powering it on and off a few times, there was no chime any more (I was trying various things, like using the mini DP port instead of the DVI port, rear USB ports instead of the front panel USB ports for the keyboard, etc.)

Observations:

1. The GT120 is in the top PCIe slot. All of the documentation shows it in the bottom slot. When I look at the motherboard, it calls the top slot X4/Raid, and the bottom slot X16. Should the graphics card be in the bottom slot?

2. There are other threads that I looked at before posting this. They seem to indicate that there should be diagnostic LEDs lit up. There are none on my unit. I do get a brief red LED lighting up on the CPU tray when I power it up. Does this indicate a bad backplane or CPU tray?

3. I did download the Apple user manual. It says that startup issues are sometimes caused by the on-board battery. Considering the amount of time the machine was turned off, and the low cost of a 2032 battery, I think I am going to change that out as a first step.

Sorry to all who think this is basic stuff. This is the first Mac Pro I have been up close and personal with. I play with PCs all the time, and have 3 other Macs that I use regularly (along with other Apple devices). I have really never seen any Mac Pros outside of an Apple Store, and I have to try and figure this out, but without a display of any type, it isn't easy on an unfamiliar system.

 

[Alex Sanders74]

1) Try the GPU (GT120) in slot 1.

2)There's a small button on the board behind the power switch that will show you the LED lights when pressed. The brief red LED you see on the CPU tray is normal at boot.

3) CR2032 battery will work fine and is a good idea. The real replacement is a BR2032 which is almost the same, but has a higher tolerance to heat. This is the recommended battery but CR2032 works perfectly.

For the LED diagnostics, there is a section in the PDF below that covers this. In fact, I would download and study this PDF extensively. There is a pile of invaluable info in it.

http://tim.id.au/laptops/apple/macpro/macpro_early2009.pdf

PM me if you need to discuss further.

 

[ADDvanced]

Did you try booting from a usb or swapping a drive with an os onto it?

 

[Kostask]

I have not tried to boot from a USB drive (I have an external USB drive which I use with my iMac for some purposes.) If I can manage to get any sort of display on it, that is the next thing to try. I assume it will boot 10.13.6 properly? It is a full copy of MacOS 10.13.6, so I can boot from it, and when I find a drive sled, use it to load a copy of 10.13.6.

 

[Kostask]

1) Try the GPU (GT120) in slot 1.

2)There's a small button on the board behind the power switch that will show you the LED lights when pressed. The brief red LED you see on the CPU tray is normal at boot.

3) CR2032 battery will work fine and is a good idea. The real replacement is a BR2032 which is almost the same, but has a higher tolerance to heat. This is the recommended battery but CR2032 works perfectly.

For the LED diagnostics, there is a section in the PDF below that covers this. In fact, I would download and study this PDF extensively. There is a pile of invaluable info in it.

http://tim.id.au/laptops/apple/macpro/macpro_early2009.pdf

PM me if you need to discuss further.

Thanks for the link. I have downloaded the manual, and will begin the study.

I will get a battery first to see if it has any effect, as well as move the card over to slot 1 to see what effect this has as well. Seems like it would be easier to replace the battery with the video card out of the way.

Thanks for the offer to help. I will do a bit of reading/study before I start wasting your time.

 

[Kostask]

I changed the battery to a CR2032 today, and also moved the GT120 to slot #1 (the lowest slot). Still no video being displayed on DVI or Mini DP(the monitor LED is not going blue, which means it isn't receiving a sync signal). I am still not getting a start up chime any more either. I did try resetting the PRAM (Command-Option-P-R). No change.


I am beginning to suspect that the video card is bad, although I am not sure without seeing anything on the display, it is hard to say.

The front panel Power LED is a steady white, and on power up, it sounds like the DVD/Optical drive is trying to seek. I did press the diagnostics button, and got two green LEDs and one orangey-yellow LED after the two green ones lit, vertically stacked.

 

[krakman]

Do you have a hard drive with a working macOS instaalled in this computer either internally or via usb?

unless you do you won't be able to boot at all

 

[KeesMacPro]

I assume it will boot 10.13.6 properly? It is a full copy of MacOS 10.13.6, so I can boot from it, and when I find a drive sled, use it to load a copy of 10.13.6.

If the MP 4,1 is unflashed , High Sierra is not compatible.
After flashing the firmware to a 4,1>5,1 , all OS from 10.6.8 up to (and including) Mojave can be installed natively.

I'd make an usb installer of e.g. El Capitan or a working El Capitan drive you can put in the MP to do further testing.

BTW: no need for a drive sled , when you open the optical bay, there's a SATA plug available to connect a drive.
You could just connect it and lay it on top of the DVD drive .
Might not be a perfect solution on long terms, but good enough for testing/troubleshooting...

 

[Kostask]

Do you have a hard drive with a working macOS instaalled in this computer either internally or via usb?

unless you do you won't be able to boot at all

I am trying to just get to tge point where i am getting to the folder with the flashing question mark. Once I get to that, I should be able to boot up an operating system.

Right now, I am not getting to that. I am not getting any video, nor a startup chime/gong, yet the power LED us on steady, the fans are turning at a slow medium speed, there are no memory KEDs lit, and when I press the diagnostics button, I appear to be getting LEDs that are normal.

Good advice about DVD bay SATA connection, I will end up trying that. I di have a 2.5” mechanical drive with 10.11.X on it. Still need to figure out the lack if video first.

 

[Alex Sanders74]

Thanks for the link. I have downloaded the manual, and will begin the study.

I will get a battery first to see if it has any effect, as well as move the card over to slot 1 to see what effect this has as well. Seems like it would be easier to replace the battery with the video card out of the way.

Thanks for the offer to help. I will do a bit of reading/study before I start wasting your time.

If you're having problems still, let me know. You're not wasting my time. I've had 4 MacPros, 1 4,1 and three 5,1 models and have some experience in dealing with them. Do you have another GPU that has a Mac ROM on it to try? Perhaps the card you're using is cooked, which would be unusual but not impossible. I'm very curious what LED's are lit behind the power switch when you hold the button..

You don't need a bootable drive of any type to get to the grey screen with the Apple logo. The diagnostic LED's I asked about will tell a lot of information. Maybe take a photo of what is being lit.

 

[Kostask]

I get two green LEDs, and an amber one. They are vertically stacked, green, green, amber from top to bottom. The front power LED is on steady, no blinking codes as shown in the manual you linked me to.

I have replaced the battery with a CR2032. The old one was a Panasonic BR2032, and it read 2.91V on a Fluke meter. The new one reads 3.32V. I don't know if the old battery voltage level was below acceptable limits, but seeing as it was probably factory original, 12 years looks like enough time to replace it.

The video card was moved from slot 4 to slot 1, and also to slot 2. No video on either slot, either from the DVI port or the DP port.

I don't have any other Apple video cards. I am looking at getting a known good GT120 from somebody on Kijiiji (Canadian equivalent of Craigs list). He is working out shipping as he is in Toronto, and I am in Calgary, and it will likely take a week to get here.

From my other Macs, I am going to assume that the video display having a white backgound and grey Apple in the middle means that the machine has passed its internal self tests, and will eventually try to find a bootable device. I'm pretty sure that the start up chime means that the memory self tests have completed properly. Just as a try, I have removed two of the 3 memory modules, and there is no change. None of the memory slots have a red LED lit up, so I am assuming that the memory modules are OK. I am using the memory modules that came with the machine (3X2GB, DDR3-1066).

 

[Macschrauber]

Pull gpu and all what is removable but one ram stick.

press diag button and watch the LEDs while powering the mac.

they should show some life and the efi done led should be lit constantly. If not there is a hardware problem.

the startup chime is an indicator of a self test. It must be audible.

only reason it is not audible is with sound volume set to zero. But this will be reset by a deep nvram reset.

 

[Kostask]

I did as you asked. I removed the two memory modules, leaving one module in slot 1 (the front most slot), and removed the graphics card completely. There were no USB devices connected, and no hard drives. I didn't disconnect the DVD Drive, hope this doesn't present a problem. If it does, I can remove the DVD and try again.

The top green LED was on constantly. Then two LED positions below that don't have LEDs . The fourth position green LED was on constantly, and the fifth position green LED was blinking at a steady rate. This was with the diag button being held down, and the power button being turned on. I kept the diag button down for a while, and the LEDs stayed the same. When I let the diag button go, the LEDs all turned off. The LED beside the slot 1 DIMM was off. The CPU LED flashed red briefly.

 

[Alex Sanders74]

The LED behaviour should be

• PSU PWROK (green), 5V STBY (amber), EFI DONE (green), GPU OK (green) LEDs illuminated

Of course these are with the button pressed down.

Hard to know from your report which ones are which colour. There are labels beside each that can really help diagnose hardware related problems. The led that was blinking has me curious...

 

[Kostask]

I did take video of the LEDs with my iPhone if somebody would like to see it. Its not Hollywood quality, but it does show the LED power up sequence.

From the video, the top LED is called SYS PG, the second LED is missing (not installed, labelled RS), the third LED is not installed (labelled PG as well, not a typo on my part), the fourth LED shows ONE, which I take it to be EFI DONE, and is on constantly and is green, and the fifth LED says OK, which is what I am taking to say is GPU OK, and is also on constantly and green.

LEDs 2,3, 6 and 7 are not installed, as in physically not there.

 

[tsialex]

I did take video of the LEDs with my iPhone if somebody would like to see it. Its not Hollywood quality, but it does show the LED power up sequence.

From the video, the top LED is called SYS PG, the second LED is missing (not installed, labelled RS), the third LED is not installed (labelled PG as well, not a typo on my part), the fourth LED shows ONE, which I take it to be EFI DONE, and is on constantly and is green, and the fifth LED says OK, which is what I am taking to say is GPU OK, and is also on constantly and green.

LEDs 2,3, 6 and 7 are not installed, as in physically not there.

EFI_DONE LED being lit don't eliminate that you have a brick.

The BootROM is a image made of several components, EFI_DONE just show you that the EFI part of the BootROM was successfully loaded and is valid. Your NVRAM could be corrupted or the NAND cells that store the NVRAM could failed, for example.

Did you get the known working GPU? Check if it works, if not, then the next step is to replace the SPI flash if you can desolder/solder it (or the whole backplane).

 

[Kostask]

EFI_DONE LED being lit don't eliminate that you have a brick.

The BootROM is a image made of several components, EFI_DONE just show you that the EFI part of the BootROM was successfully loaded and is valid. Your NVRAM could be corrupted or the NAND cells that store the NVRAM could failed, for example.

Did you get the known working GPU? Check if it works, if not, then the next step is to replace the SPI flash if you can desolder/solder it (or the whole backplane).

I have sent payment for the video card. Its going to take a week or so for the video card to get here.

Hoping its the GPU and not tge backplane.

 

[tsialex]

I have sent payment for the video card. Its going to take a week or so for the video card to get here.

Hoping its the GPU and not tge backplane.

Your Mac Pro works without the GPU. You can use another Mac to install 10.6.4 up to 10.11.6 to a SATA disk, enable network and screen sharing, move the disk to your Mac Pro and then access your Mac Pro from the network. I've done it several times in the past and works perfectly.

Just don't use a Mac with a NVIDIA southbridge, like several 2008-2010 iMac/Air/MBP/minis, the disk will not be compatible unless you use a USB disk. Any other Mac with a Intel chipset will do.

 

[Kostask]

I think I will wait for the good video card to arrive. I don’t really know if I have a working backplane at this point. As sooun as I can establish that, the path going forward is clear. At this pint, however, I still don’t know if I have a sytem that is basically functional.

 

[tsialex]

I think I will wait for the good video card to arrive. I don’t really know if I have a working backplane at this point. As sooun as I can establish that, the path going forward is clear. At this pint, however, I still don’t know if I have a sytem that is basically functional.

If you have a itch to know if it's the GPU or not, now you know what to do.

 

[Kostask]

Just as an update, the new (to me) GT120 video card arrived today. I still do not have video output. I am now under the assumption that I have a bad backplane/motherboard, and will be looking to get a good one, not from eBay. I have found usedmac.com, who have backplanes/motherboard. I have sent them an email with some questions, and will be ordering from them if the answers are acceptable. I would appreciate knowing of any problems that people may have had with them, if any.