Bye, Bye for now Microsoft it has been fun! Let's here all the "I told you so"!

[Technerd108]

So instead of adding a post to a long thread I am going to post a new thread.

I think it is been a year since I wrote the thread bye, bye for now Apple....

A lot has changed in a year. Mostly unexpected to me so I have to eat my previous words. I am man enough to admit when I was wrong. Of course what is the point of owning devices without trying new things and alternatives every so often? You need to try and fail or succeed in order to truly know and some risk comes with that. At the end though you have personal knowledge no one can take away from you or match.

So after owning two OLED Windows laptops of different sizes with latest Intel mobile processors I realized a few things that started to become deal breakers for me. First and foremost was the screen. I was so happy and excited to have a 3k 16" Amoled 120hz screen but over time the OLED tech started to bother my eyes in two ways. The white balance never looks normal. I feel eye strain after a short while no matter the brightness. White balance makes everything look off. So while contrast and color pop is great it doesn't look natural and feels less vibrant. This extends to both laptops with OLED screens. AI is another big issue. Not a big fan but it will be in all of our OS. Microsoft record on privacy and security frankly sucks and while I don't trust anyone at least Apple makes a public claim of privacy and security. This is a major concern as more complicated AI gets integrated and we have no idea what it's doing I want at some guarantees and only Apple is offering this at this point.

Then you have fans. Even with battery parity with Windows laptops and my M2 MBA thermals are not close. My M2 MBA never even heats up unless charging. No fans. No performance throttling I have ever experienced. Feels as fast as the day I bought it. Lasts long on battery. Great build quality. Great design. Better than Windows alternatives.

So while I still have issues with Apple and the hardware. I wish iOS would steal Android gesture support. I wish MacOS would stop becoming iOS. redundant power buttons, and on. Despite any of this Apple is still much better than Windows. Yes my s24u will not connect with my Mac and my GB4 will but I just prefer using my Mac. So I will deal with the issues I am still frustrated with Apple and reserve the right to change my mind again a year later. Although I think this experiment has shown me that I will be focusing more on Apple because I can use their products longer without feeling any slow down which leads me to not feel pressured to buy the latest and greatest every year. I have never had ANY laptop even M1 Max that didn't feel slower after a year until this M2 MBA.

So as long as my Apple hardware perform as well as they do now I will continue to buy Apple despite maybe holding back some features or latest tech. As much as I thought a 120hz OLEd screen would be an upgrade from my MBA it just wasn't in real life and the fact I actually preferred the LCD screen was a big shock to me. But I have to be honest. I wasted a lot of money on those Windows laptops. Luckily I can sell them fast and use that to upgrade in a year or so.

 

[russell_314]

Do you think maybe you just get bored with one and want to try something different? You don’t have to be all in on one particular operating system or brand. I have a MacBook, but I also have a Windows PC and occasionally when I get bored, I tinker with Linux.

Also there is no one size fits all or one machine does everything. You have to fit the tool to the job. For me if I am trying to do more difficult tasks like working with spreadsheets where it’s easier to have a keyboard I use my MacBook Air. If I’m trying to play games, I’m on my PC. If I want to watch a movie, this is why I have my iPad. If you try to get everything done with one device, it is possible but sure not going to be happy with some aspects.

 

[Technerd108]

Do you think maybe you just get bored with one and want to try something different? You don’t have to be all in on one particular operating system or brand. I have a MacBook, but I also have a Windows PC and occasionally when I get bored, I tinker with Linux.

Also there is no one size fits all or one machine does everything. You have to fit the tool to the job. For me if I am trying to do more difficult tasks like working with spreadsheets where it’s easier to have a keyboard I use my MacBook Air. If I’m trying to play games, I’m on my PC. If I want to watch a movie, this is why I have my iPad. If you try to get everything done with one device, it is possible but sure not going to be happy with some aspects.

No for me it is not boredom it is a screen issue or my eyes with Oled screens. I had used my Windows PC exclusively for 6 months or so and then occasionally used my Mac. It wasn't until both PC screens started to bother my eyes in at least two different ways I tried my MBA side by side and noticed I liked the Mac screen better. Then I started using the Mac more again and just gravitated to it because of the hardware and later the software, sort of an organic evolution that was completely unexpected if you will.

I get different use cases necessitate different OS and hardware but I am a simple man and the Mac has proven to be better. I will upgrade and maybe I will get a pro but for now the M2 MBA is surprisingly good still and beats in a few ways devices with much better specs on paper.

You have to try something for yourself and then determine what works best for you despite specs or cost. Just but what fits your needs and with Apple my experience so far is that my devices perform better, longer than the competition which make up for price differences or upgradeability.

 

[apostolosdt]

I “bootcamped” a MBP 13” 2015 into equal 500GBs and installed Monterey and Windows 10. I tried to duplicate the apps as closely as possible. Fair setup for comparison.

Well, how to put it? Somehow, macOS functions more smoothly and more efficiently. I suspect it’s the UNIX kernel underneath—a huge “gift” by Jobs’ ingenuity.

 

[SnoFlo]

I use OLED panels on Windows mobile workstations (Lenovo P series, and HP ZBook Fury series), and your experiences with OLED are different from mine. I wonder if there are different grades of OLED panels? Also, workstation OLEDs are calibrated from the factory.

I kept a Lenovo Thinkpad mobile workstation with Windows around when I switched back to MacOS in 2021 (after having usied Windows since 2012 when I switched from MacOS). After reading about the 'Windows Recall' fiasco I wiped Windows from the drive and replaced it with Fedora KDE. I am pleasantly surprised by how far Linux has come. It's not as polished as MacOS, nor are most of the available apps on the same level as those available for Mac and Windows, but it is a worthy replacement for both MacOS and Windows, if someone should choose to go in that direction.

 

[kasakka]

Welcome back to just a different set of frustrations.

I just spent 15 minutes to figure out I needed to "allow" my USB hub to connect because none of my peripherals were working. Except MacOS would not tell me this in any way on the login screen, like some screenshots show it should. So I was in a chicken and egg "please login but you cannot login because your keyboard does not function" situation. I had to dismantle my setup and connect my kb directly to get around this.

Similarly I can't use my Samsung G95NC 8Kx2K superultrawide with one input because Apple scaling maxes out at 3840x1080 on this display, because it cannot support above 8K framebuffers due to its stupid ass scaling system. I have to use it in Picture by Picture mode instead, with DP and HDMI connected to the Mac. Which then introduces its own issues where MacOS has trouble figuring out what to do with oddball resolutions like 5120x2160 and 2560x2160.

I have to use BetterDisplay to force it to retain its configuration, and sometimes need to use it to reinitialize the displays because MacOS can't detect them correctly.

Windows has none of these issues. Instead you get a different set of bullcrap. While I do think Apple does better for laptop hardware, MacOS is a real pile of crap when it comes to using non-Apple peripherals, whether it's displays or USB devices. Always a lot more issues, dongle hell etc.

For personal use, I've given up on iOS due to any real progress on iPadOS and iOS. I could not find a single feature on iOS 18 that I truly wanted. I use Samsung Android phones and tablets instead and like the customizability of that experience a lot better.

 

[Boyd01]

Also there is no one size fits all or one machine does everything. You have to fit the tool to the job.

You know, I'm very close to having one machine that does everything. Running Windows 10 in a 4-core/32gb Parallels VM on my 2018 64gb i7 Mini. Have used Macs going back to 1985 with a "Fat Mac" 512k and only started using Windows to run some specific software back around 2000 (Garmin and Magellan did not support Macs for their GPS devices at that time).

Not really so different today, Macs don't support the GIS software I need for making complex maps. After years of using Windows 7 (and XP and Vista before that) on Dell and HP computers, I switched to a Parallels VM in 2020 on my Mini. That has worked really well, giving me the best of both worlds. I use MacOS primarily and only use Windows for GIS.

Have also used unix going back to 1985, which I continue to do on the Mac. Since this continues to meet my needs, will stay with it for another couple years (can't afford to upgrade anyway). Will see what the landscape looks like then, but I fear I'll have to go back to separate machines.

 

[russell_314]

No for me it is not boredom it is a screen issue or my eyes with Oled screens. I had used my Windows PC exclusively for 6 months or so and then occasionally used my Mac. It wasn't until both PC screens started to bother my eyes in at least two different ways I tried my MBA side by side and noticed I liked the Mac screen better. Then I started using the Mac more again and just gravitated to it because of the hardware and later the software, sort of an organic evolution that was completely unexpected if you will.

Have you tried different laptop screens? There are so many out there so you might find one that doesn’t bother you. I agree, though it’s hard to compete with the Mac when it comes to screen quality. Once I got an iMac, I couldn’t go back to a cheap PC monitor.

I get different use cases necessitate different OS and hardware but I am a simple man and the Mac has proven to be better. I will upgrade and maybe I will get a pro but for now the M2 MBA is surprisingly good still and beats in a few ways devices with much better specs on paper.

If it works for what you’re doing then why change it. Why do you want the Pro? I thought about it for the better screen, but I don’t need anything that powerful.

You have to try something for yourself and then determine what works best for you despite specs or cost. Just but what fits your needs and with Apple my experience so far is that my devices perform better, longer than the competition which make up for price differences or upgradeability.

Absolutely unless you’re on tight budget why not get what works best.

You know, I'm very close to having one machine that does everything. Running Windows 10 in a 4-core/32gb Parallels VM on my 2018 64gb i7 Mini. Have used Macs going back to 1985 with a "Fat Mac" 512k and only started using Windows to run some specific software back around 2000 (Garmin and Magellan did not support Macs for their GPS devices at that time).

Not really so different today, Macs don't support the GIS software I need for making complex maps. After years of using Windows 7 (and XP and Vista before that) on Dell and HP computers, I switched to a Parallels VM in 2020 on my Mini. That has worked really well, giving me the best of both worlds. I use MacOS primarily and only use Windows for GIS.

Have also used unix going back to 1985, which I continue to do on the Mac. Since this continues to meet my needs, will stay with it for another couple years (can't afford to upgrade anyway). Will see what the landscape looks like then, but I fear I'll have to go back to separate machines.

Are you using an Intel or Apple Silicon Mac mini? From my understanding, the version of Windows for ARM has some compatibility issues with software.

I think if I was to buy another desktop, it would be a Mac mini with the Apple display. That sounds like the perfect pair.

 

[Boyd01]

Are you using an Intel or Apple Silicon Mac mini? From my understanding, the version of Windows for ARM has some compatibility issues with software.

As I said, it's a 2018 i7 Mini, which has a an Intel 6-core CPU with 64gb RAM. And yes, that was exactly my point... now that Apple has left Intel, my next Mac will most likely not be able to do everything I'm currently doing. So, I plan to stick with the current Intel Mini as long as I can.

 

[russell_314]

As I said, it's a 2018 i7 Mini, which has a an Intel 6-core CPU with 64gb RAM. And yes, that was exactly my point... now that Apple has left Intel, my next Mac will most likely not be able to do everything I'm currently doing. So, I plan to stick with the current Intel Mini as long as I can.

Somehow I missed the i7 🤦‍♂️😂

I hope in a few years the ARM version of Windows gets on par with the x64 version

 

[Sami13496]

I used Windows only from 1999 to 2014 and then Macs only from 2014. Never even considered going back to Windows. I started a new job recently and unfortunately I have to use Windows there as it is a big corporation, you know. I really really don’t like using Windows. Every time I come home and open my MacBook I just fall in love with it again, it’s so nice in evert possible way, hardware and software. I try to see good in this so at least I appreciate it more again

 

[1BadManVan]

For me, it's windows for desktop and Mac for the laptop. Get the best of both worlds for me in my opinion. I tried the windows laptop thing a couple years ago and just kept returning them, then I got my MacBook Air and never looked back. But I still love windows for my desktop, but specifically because I still game as my little side hobby between having a family, kids, a job etc lol

 

[apostolosdt]

For me, it's windows for desktop and Mac for the laptop. Get the best of both worlds for me in my opinion. I tried the windows laptop thing a couple years ago and just kept returning them, then I got my MacBook Air and never looked back. But I still love windows for my desktop, but specifically because I still game as my little side hobby between having a family, kids, a job etc lol

Interesting point. Is it because games on Mac are limited or is it that Windows as an OS is better suited for gaming?

 

[1BadManVan]

Interesting point. Is it because games on Mac are limited or is it that Windows as an OS is better suited for gaming?

Limited games for Mac, plus I play higher end AAA titles. Just not something Macs really do, very limited game library and still limited by the hardware for raw graphics horsepower. My main windows machine has an RTX 4080 card in it. Playing games like Forza motorsport, war zone, delta force and some other random stuff as they come out.

 

[lcseds]

I despise Apple as a company. For an example, the upgrade prices for ram/ssd are absolutely criminal. And the level of bravado makes me ill. Tim's presentations make me gag. But I keep buying some Windows notebooks (I built a desktop for Flight Sim) trying to shift back to Windows after decades on Mac. Every time I buy one, I see faults here and there for me. Getting a great screen with crystal clear text is a bitch. My windows Gaming desktop is great, but on notebooks, I can't help admit Apple makes the best. And I detest that, so I keep shopping Windows. But I have tech mutual funds with lots in Apple. Think I might need a shrink.

 

[Technerd108]

I despise Apple as a company. For an example, the upgrade prices for ram/ssd are absolutely criminal. And the level of bravado makes me ill. Tim's presentations make me gag. But I keep buying some Windows notebooks (I built a desktop for Flight Sim) trying to shift back to Windows after decades on Mac. Every time I buy one, I see faults here and there for me. Getting a great screen with crystal clear text is a bitch. My windows Gaming desktop is great, but on notebooks, I can't help admit Apple makes the best. And I detest that, so I keep shopping Windows. But I have tech mutual funds with lots in Apple. Think I might need a shrink.

I can agree with your sentiment. Apple business practices and marketing are pretty awful. The self congratulating and fake environmental concerns makes me sick. How in the world did Apple get people to think a computer manufacturer is "green" in any sense of the word. I bought an iPhone so I am saving the environment......blah, blah...

That being said as a computer manufacturer they are one of the cleaner companies if we can trust any data coming out of China?? I could go on and on but I will stop here.

So despite a lot of personal and ethical concerns with Apple in terms of a laptop you are correct they are the best. Like you I try Windows laptops to see both the hardware like Amoled screens and the latest tech from Intel or AMD. A lot of progress has been made with Intel and AMD BUT the reality is they are not close yet. Even if they reach 1.8 Armstrongs vs Apple's upcoming 2nm process on TSMC Apple still has an advantage. Since MacOS runs natively on ARM and Window's still has a different version for ARM that doesn't run all software a regular Windows laptop would run those new QC PC's have limited usefulness vs a MacBook.

So while PC's have improved a lot in terms of build quality and certain specs even exceeding Apple yet they still fall short in key areas. I have a couple of Windows laptops and they both have better speakers than my M2 MBA and spec wise they have better screens, more ram, more storage. However, despite having better specs on paper the real world experience using a Windows laptop with latest Intel mobile processors is not as good as my 2 year old M2 MBA.

Even when Intel and AMD do reach parity with the latest m series chips if they ever do, they will still have various disadvantages and advantages over Apple but the disadvantages are greater.

My M2 MBA can do pretty much anything I throw at it and barely even get warm. I can stream videos and multi task at the same time for hours and hours with full brightness and sound volume. No fans. No slowdown or heat no matter what I do. Contrast that with my Windows laptops and I can just start the laptop up and fans are running. I can stream and fans are running and heat and various odd random slow downs and fans doing various light tasks. Battery life is good finally but not as good as my M2 MBA. MacOS has some things I don't like but overall it is more smooth and polished than Windows. MacOS is better organized than Windows but Windows is easier for me to use.

I like Linux, Chromebooks, and alternative OS but for my use case MacOS just works better.

The other thing what Computer manufacturer is better? HP, Dell, and many others are build their devices in China with less strict standard for the environment than Apple. Microsoft is certainly no better than Apple in a lot of ways. Only Linux would be ethically the best choice but good luck with Linux on a laptop. Linux is great but it is much better suited for a desktop. Then there is security and Apple wins hands down.

So at the moment there is no better line of laptops than MacBooks. There may be PC laptops with better specs for less money but the build quality and design is not as nice in the hardware even if Windows PC has better specs.

The only Windows laptops I would buy now are the new line of Surface laptops. Like Apple MS makes some compromises to their hardware but I have found no better optimized Windows laptops with similar design and build quality to a MacBook. I am going to sell my Windows laptops and use the money to either upgrade my M2 MBA in another year or so or buy a MS Surface with a Qualcomm processor but not this first generation but next year or whenever QC releases a new PC processor and MS adds it to the surface line so probably another year or two. I like Windows but at this point I don't see any need to justify buying both any more.

I am not a serious gamer. I can use my MacBook for anything I would use my Windows PC for. So paying top dollar for a surface for me makes no sense when I can just upgrade my M2 MBA in a couple years and spend all my money on one ecosystem and stop doubling up. I don't like putting all my eggs in one basket but I just don't see a better alternative.

Realistically I will probably still have a windows PC because I like to stay current in all operating systems but I may just buy a cheap desktop for Windows or buy a year or two old Surface laptop in a year or two. MS always discounts their older devices as new ones are released like Apple. So I could probably get a cheap Surface laptop and then put more money in my Apple devices and not upgrade Windows until I have to and regularly upgrade my Apple devices every 3-5 years.

Which leads to my final point. How long can you use a PC laptop or MacBook before it starts to feel slow or sluggish due to the hardware? Sure you can use something for many years but it doesn't mean you will enjoy that experience specially near the end of the useful life of the device. My M2 MBA still feels very snappy after 2 years and I feel no real need to upgrade. My Windows PC's are relatively new and already I have slow downs at times for no reason. Windows feels clunky at times. So I am already wanting to upgrade my Windows PC's from Intel to Qualcomm. But I don't like the feeling of wanting to upgrade every year. I may want to upgrade my M2 MBA right now but it is more wishful thinking than any real need unlike the Windows PC's which have issues that make me want to replace them( battery, heat, fans, Oled screen issues vs my M2 MBA which I want some upgrades like 120hz screen but nothing is pushing me to upgrade other than a want. I also felt this way with my iPhone. I just don't feel the same needs or pressure to upgrade my Apple devices as I do with the alternatives and I really appreciate that. It means that I have more control over when I upgrade and feel less pressure to make useless purchases and wasting money on upgrades that aren't needed.

So with Apple I may not have the latest and greatest in all specs but I tend to enjoy Apple devices longer and they perform better during the entire useful life of the device. Apple could not do this before m series chips. Intel Macs sucked IMHO. M series Mac's are a game changer for a number of reasons.

 

[LeeW]

I can agree with your sentiment. Apple business practices and marketing are pretty awful. The self congratulating and fake environmental concerns makes me sick. How in the world did Apple get people to think a computer manufacturer is "green" in any sense of the word. I bought an iPhone so I am saving the environment......blah, blah...

I agree, but I have learnt to put brands aside and prioritize the devices I need for my use cases: my PC for gaming and my MBA for everything else. I never thought I would be as happy as I am with an MBA, but it does everything I need with absolute ease, has a long battery life, and so on.

My casual gaming on the M3 MBA pretty much mirrors what I do on the PC, and the MBA even handles them easily; I don't need the PC.

I will always love trying out new things, and that will never stop, but my MBA will be my daily for the foreseeable future.

However, I may pick up an M4 Mac Mini if it gets a redesign.

 

[izzy0242mr]

Yes my s24u will not connect with my Mac

What do you mean? I have a Samsung phone and it works fine with my Mac. I use an app called LocalSend that lets me share files between them both. Very easy to use. I use Android Messages or Beeper to view all my texts/messages on whatever device I'm currently using. I can control my Mac with my Android phone using the app Unified Remote.

In what way can't your S24U connect to your Mac?

 

[Technerd108]

What do you mean? I have a Samsung phone and it works fine with my Mac. I use an app called LocalSend that lets me share files between them both. Very easy to use. I use Android Messages or Beeper to view all my texts/messages on whatever device I'm currently using. I can control my Mac with my Android phone using the app Unified Remote.

In what way can't your S24U connect to your Mac?

No native connections. Using iMessage, FaceTime, and other conveniences are all lost. You don't have to configure or use web based apps for things to work.

Using an Android phone with a Mac is doable with 3rd party apps and web apps but this is not a desirable setup. Compared to my Windows PC Android works so much better than on a Mac.

I am too old to Jerry rig everything just to have basic functioning. If that works for you no problem but it is less than ideal for me.

It is not a huge issue and in some ways I don't like my phone always talking to my PC or Mac. I realized this over time and think I may keep an Android phone just because it is a separate entity from my Apple ecosystem. There are times though when this is a hassle so eventually I am going to get an iPhone and keep my s24u along side. I am taking my time though. May wait for iPhone 17. I am in no rush.

For now, my Mac is fine as it is but to say that it is the same experience using an Android phone with a Mac comparative to an iPhone is just not true. You can make things work but it is not as smooth or elegant or feature rich as native applications working with an iPhone.

For me at this time it is well worth the trade off.