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Cafe Press just pulled one of my images. Copyright infringement?

freeny

freeny

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Sep 27, 2005
2,064
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I have been selling shirts and miscellaneous apparel on Cafe Press with the attached image for over two years now. They just pulled it due to "Possible copyright infringement"

As far as I know, I havent broken any copyright laws here.
And nowhere do I use the name of this character.

Does anyone know and have a link to the laws pertaining to this?
 

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Is it someone elses work, or a commercial item? If so, then they have a point. You can only use someone elses work with permission, and Cafepress would need a copy of that permission. (Wrote before I knew what it was.)

Honestly, I don't see anything wrong, except maybe the black on the gloves may be some sort of Disney trademark. If the gloves had five digits there would be absolutely no question, since few US characters have five fingers, including that one.

TEG
 
TEG said:
Is it someone elses work, or a commercial item? If so, then they have a point. You can only use someone elses work with permission, and Cafepress would need a copy of that permission. (Wrote before I knew what it was.)

Honestly, I don't see anything wrong, except maybe the black on the gloves may be some sort of Disney trademark. If the gloves had five digits there would be absolutely no question, since few US characters have five fingers, including that one.

TEG
Click to expand...

all my own work.
i sent in a grievance. an automated response said i would contacted within 24 hours...

Ill post updates.
 
No they are not mickey's shorts or gloves...

Does Disney own the right to gloves? If so I can start posting all the characters who use them and should be sued...

Does Disney own the copyright to red shorts with buttons? If so I can start posting all the toys and characters and parodies that use them...

Parody- Copyright issues (wikipedia)

Although a parody can be considered a derivative work under United States Copyright Law, it can be protected from claims by the copyright owner of the original work under the fair use doctrine, which is codified in 17 USC § 107. The Supreme Court of the United States stated that parody "is the use of some elements of a prior author's composition to create a new one that, at least in part, comments on that author's works." That commentary function provides some justification for use of the older work. See Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music, Inc.

In 2001, the United States Court of Appeals, 11th Circuit, in Suntrust v. Houghton Mifflin, upheld the right of Alice Randall to publish a parody of Gone with the Wind called The Wind Done Gone, which told the same story from the point of view of Scarlett O'Hara's slaves, who were glad to be rid of her.
 
freeny said:
No they are not mickey's shorts or gloves...

Does Disney own the right to gloves? If so I can start posting all the characters who use them and should be sued...

Does Disney own the copyright to red shorts with buttons? If so I can start posting all the toys and characters and parodies that use them...
Click to expand...

Perhaps you should read up on what a trademark is.
 
freeny said:
No they are not mickey's shorts or gloves...
Click to expand...

Well, I'm just saying...White gloves with 4 fingers 3 black slits on the top of the hand, red shorts with oversized white buttons...c'mon you can't seriously think people wouldn't recognize that? All you are missing is the yellow shoes.

Not only is it copyrighted, but protected by trademark too. Is it really a battle you want to fight?
 
kingjr3 said:
Well, I'm just saying...White gloves with 4 fingers 3 black slits on the top of the hand, red shorts with oversized white buttons...c'mon you can't seriously think people wouldn't recognize that? All you are missing is the yellow shoes.

Not only is it copyrighted, but protected by trademark too. Is it really a battle you want to fight?
Click to expand...

I will fight this until someone shows me documentation that I am breaking a copyright law. ;)

m searching the web and still cant find the description of Mickey Mouse's trademark.
If someone else finds it please post a link...

Ive found the patent numbers for Mickey Mouse- United States Patent Office. [63.120] [113.274]
but searching them produces no results...
 
kingjr3 said:
Well, I'm just saying...White gloves with 4 fingers 3 black slits on the top of the hand, red shorts with oversized white buttons...c'mon you can't seriously think people wouldn't recognize that? All you are missing is the yellow shoes.

Not only is it copyrighted, but protected by trademark too. Is it really a battle you want to fight?
Click to expand...

Exactly. Take a look at basic form of the two pairs of shorts. Pretty similar looking to me.

freeny said:
I will fight this until someone shows me documentation that I am breaking a copyright law. ;)

m searching the web and still cant find the description of Mickey Mouse's trademark.
If someone else finds it please post a link...

Ive found the patent numbers for Mickey Mouse- United States Patent Office. [63.120] [113.274]
but searching them produces no results...
Click to expand...

Granted it's wikipedia, but still...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark_infringement

I'd say you are more in the gray area of trademark infringement than the copyright infringement.
 
I think it's clear copyright infringement given the immediate visual association with Mickey Mouse, particularly if you've got hundreds of well-paid lawyers after your arse. :D

The concept of derivative work should be enough to give pause for thought.
 
Wow, CafePress must have changed since the days they were the ones infringing copyrights.
 
The fact that everyone knew what character it was without you saying is pretty good evidence you're likely to be in violation of the trademark.
 
Copyright does not cover ideas and information themselves, only the form or manner in which they are expressed. For example, the copyright to a Mickey Mouse cartoon restricts others from making copies of the cartoon or creating derivative works based on Disney's particular anthropomorphic mouse, but doesn't prohibit the creation of other works about anthropomorphic mice in general, so long as they're different enough to not be judged copies of Disney's.
Click to expand...


Under the Berne Convention, copyrights for creative works do not have to be asserted or declared, as they are automatically in force at creation: an author need not "register" or "apply for" a copyright in countries adhering to the Berne Convention. As soon as a work is "fixed", that is, written or recorded on some physical medium, its author is automatically entitled to all copyrights in the work, and to any derivative works unless and until the author explicitly disclaims them, or until the copyright expires.
Click to expand...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright


Let me put it this way: if I was a betting woman, I'd be putting my money on the mouse.
 
freeny said:
I have been selling shirts and miscellaneous apparel on Cafe Press with the attached image for over two years now. They just pulled it due to "Possible copyright infringement"

As far as I know, I havent broken any copyright laws here.
And nowhere do I use the name of this character.

Does anyone know and have a link to the laws pertaining to this?
Click to expand...

You will have a VERY hard time saying this is not Micky Mouse. Logic tells me that the ONLY reason people buy this is because it is Micky Mouse. If it did not resemble Micky Mouse then no one would buy it.

You can argue "fair use" but that only applies to copyright. I'd bet Micky is a Trademark. Does fair use apply to TM as well? You'd need a lawyer and s/he'd charge you more then your cost to modify the artwork

Your best option would be to make some changes to the artwork.
 
ChrisA said:
You will have a VERY hard time saying this is not Micky Mouse. Logic tells me that the ONLY reason people buy this is because it is Micky Mouse. If it did not resemble Micky Mouse then no one would buy it.

You can argue "fair use" but that only applies to copyright. I'd bet Micky is a Trademark. Does fair use apply to TM as well? You'd need a lawyer and s/he'd charge you more then your cost to modify the artwork

Your best option would be to make some changes to the artwork.
Click to expand...

Well of course Im not going to fight this or hire a lawyer. The amount I make on these shirts would hardly scratch the surface towards lawyer fees...

Ive looked up fair use- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
as well as parody laws- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parody

These seen to be my only fighting points.

Apparently there have been several famous counterculture lawsuits with disney and the use of its characters in a parody.
http://uncleeddiestheorycorner.blogspot.com/2007/05/woods-disney-parody.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/24/business/media/24crank.html
these are just a few...

Here are some counterculture toys on the market today that go far beyond my parody-
http://www.kidrobot.com/products2.cfm?ID=5757&cfid=5732246&cftoken=26603363&nav_chooser=
http://images.google.com/imgres?img...firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=N
I could post more but you get the idea...

This fight apparently has been going on for quite some time...
Just goes to show you that money talks ;)

I will just have to wait until CafePress comes back to me with their conclusion...
 
And I'm sure if you put this on a shirt it wouldn't be copyright infringement either?

picture2pj5.png


You clearly have a dislike for Mickey Mouse =)
 
freeny said:
No they are not mickey's shorts or gloves...
Click to expand...


If not Mickey then where did you get the idea? If I were you, I'd just stop using it. Especially using to make money. Come up with your own character. I'm sure Disney's lawyers don't get their legal credentials from Wikipedia :) I certainly wouldn't draw any more attention to this matter by posting on forums. I may be wrong, but I've heard that when you use copyrighted/trademarked material that the owner can come after you for all monies you made using their material as well as a host of other fees.

I have used cafepress for years and it CLEARLY states that you must own the rights to the images you are uploading.
 
mbrellisford said:
And I'm sure if you put this on a shirt it wouldn't be copyright infringement either?

picture2pj5.png


You clearly have a dislike for Mickey Mouse =)
Click to expand...

No, thats blatant infringement :)
You dont see me trying to sell shirts of that do you? ;)

Not a dislike of Mickey but the company he represents and for reasons exactly like the one this thread is about... They're not the cute little company that makes happy movies for your kids...
Parody is not a crime.

Just to be clear, the issue I originally posted is with CafePress and not Disney. CafePress pulled the image.
 
I don't see how the image is illagal...

1) I didn't realize it was Mickey at first.
2) So what if it is? it's a parody. I'm pretty sure since weird al can parody Queen, freeny could parody mickey..
 
freeny said:
.....Just to be clear, the issue I originally posted is with CafePress and not Disney. CafePress pulled the image.
Click to expand...

in that case, it really doesn't matter if you've actually infringed on any Disney copyrights or not. If they're concerned that you might have, then that's a legitimate reason for them to pull your image. You can't really expect CafePress to expose their company to any of the expense of resolving any legal issues that might arise between you and Disney over your use of what might or might not be protected by Disney copyrights.
 
Got my reply from Cafe Press and it reads as follows-

Your use of a depiction of the likeness and distinctive characteristics of the Mickey Mouse character for commercial advantage without prior authorization is problematic as such use would potentially constitute copyright infringement against Disney.

-------------------

I consider this the end of the debate ;)
 
Just find a local print shop and get a few shirts printed up. Sell them on eBay.
 
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