CalDigit TS3 Plus or Plugable Thunderbolt 3 Dock

[mcdreamer]

I am currently in the final stages of trying to decide which Thunderbolt 3 dock to go with. I've narrowed it down to two choices:

The CalDigit TS3 Plus or this Plugable Dock (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Plugable-Thunderbolt-Compatible-Supports-DisplayPort/dp/B0722Q4ZCP/).

Both offer all the ports I need so there's no issue there. My main consideration comes down to charging and brand trustworthiness.

Ideally I would use the dock with both an M1 MacBook Pro and my work i9 2019 MacBook Pro. CalDigit claim that the 2019 Pro will charge with the dock, just at a slightly lower rate. I have experienced this with older, lower wattage MacBook Pro Apple chargers on this machine so I know that this setup can work. On the M1 side, I know that some cheap USB-C hubs are supposedly bricking M1 devices. Having read many, many reports and threads on this (as well as discussing it here in another thread) it seems the same no name brands are always being mentioned here. I've seen almost no reports about this with pricier USB-C docks from well known names and none regarding Thunderbolt docks (even if they do both ultimately provide PD charging).

On the face of it, the charging situation would give the edge to the Plugable. However, this is not a brand I know and only the CalDigit is sold by Apple. It also seems that the CalDigit is in general very well regarded whereas I'd never come across Plugable until I started looking for a dock. The CalDigit does also have more ports and a card reader, which can't be a bad thing.

All in all, I think the CalDigit still edges it and I'm prepared not to use it with my work machine if the charging is an issue (this wouldn't be a hassle with how my desk is set up). I've come across some problems with this dock but these seem to be more general and not really M1 related.

Long story short, I'm looking for any thoughts and experiences from users of these two devices on any problems they might have had and whether they are happy overall with their docks.

 

[VArase]

I use the TS3+ with a 2020 iMac 5K, but I've stopped putting it on the Mac side of a Thunderbay 4 running JBOD because it occasionally loses its mind and I've gotten tired to checking the disks (two of which are APFS and one of which is a big Time Machine). The TS3+ has been replaced once but that didn't fix the problem.

I do have a Pluggable TBT3-UDZ connected to a 16" MacBook Pro, but I honestly use it mostly to charge the MacBook Pro and it's only connected (currently) to a USB 3.2 Gen 1 backup drive. The Pluggable does not have a TB3 pass through port - unlike the TS3 - and I can't testify as to it's crash-worthiness since all my mass storage is attached to the iMac 5K.

The most reliable TB3 dock I had was an ancient Cable Matters TB3 dock, but even that required a reboot on a couple of occasions.

Don't know if its the protocol, the drivers, or the connectors but I've never had an absolutely rock solid experience with any Thunderbolt dock or adaptor.

 

[mcdreamer]

I use the TS3+ with a 2020 iMac 5K, but I've stopped putting it on the Mac side of a Thunderbay 4 running JBOD because it occasionally loses its mind and I've gotten tired to checking the disks (two of which are APFS and one of which is a big Time Machine). The TS3+ has been replaced once but that didn't fix the problem.

I do have a Pluggable TBT3-UDZ connected to a 16" MacBook Pro, but I honestly use it mostly to charge the MacBook Pro and it's only connected (currently) to a USB 3.2 Gen 1 backup drive. The Pluggable does not have a TB3 pass through port - unlike the TS3 - and I can't testify as to it's crash-worthiness since all my mass storage is attached to the iMac 5K.

The most reliable TB3 dock I had was an ancient Cable Matters TB3 dock, but even that required a reboot on a couple of occasions.

Don't know if its the protocol, the drivers, or the connectors but I've never had an absolutely rock solid experience with any Thunderbolt dock or adaptor.

Thanks for this. Yes, it seems to be generally true that no dock is absolutely perfect. I don't mind a few problems here or there. In fact I anticipate at least a few. I don't plan to run any storage via the dock which might rule out at least one class of potential problems.

My main concern is the reported bricking issues with M1 Macs and charging via third party docks. As I mentioned in my original post it seems like this is overwhelmingly a problem with the cheap off brand devices. Good to know the Plugable has been good for charging with your Intel machine.

 

[LuisN]

I use the TS3+ with a 2020 iMac 5K, but I've stopped putting it on the Mac side of a Thunderbay 4 running JBOD because it occasionally loses its mind and I've gotten tired to checking the disks (two of which are APFS and one of which is a big Time Machine). The TS3+ has been replaced once but that didn't fix the problem.

I do have a Pluggable TBT3-UDZ connected to a 16" MacBook Pro, but I honestly use it mostly to charge the MacBook Pro and it's only connected (currently) to a USB 3.2 Gen 1 backup drive. The Pluggable does not have a TB3 pass through port - unlike the TS3 - and I can't testify as to it's crash-worthiness since all my mass storage is attached to the iMac 5K.

The most reliable TB3 dock I had was an ancient Cable Matters TB3 dock, but even that required a reboot on a couple of occasions.

Don't know if its the protocol, the drivers, or the connectors but I've never had an absolutely rock solid experience with any Thunderbolt dock or adaptor.

Those two should work fine. I'd also check here: https://www.owcshop.eu/catalog/index.php/thunderbolt-docks-c-334_371

 

[Deccr]

Thanks for this. Yes, it seems to be generally true that no dock is absolutely perfect. I don't mind a few problems here or there. In fact I anticipate at least a few. I don't plan to run any storage via the dock which might rule out at least one class of potential problems.

My main concern is the reported bricking issues with M1 Macs and charging via third party docks. As I mentioned in my original post it seems like this is overwhelmingly a problem with the cheap off brand devices. Good to know the Plugable has been good for charging with your Intel machine.

Looks like Apple has just fixed this issue with the latest Big Sur update.

 

[mcdreamer]

Looks like Apple has just fixed this issue with the latest Big Sur update.

Just seen the front page. Looks like I can go ahead with a purchase without worrying too much now.

EDIT: I decided to go for the TS3 Plus. I will report back after it arrives tomorrow following initial set up and possibly again in the longer term if I find any particular issues.

 

[joevt]

TS3 Plus is limited to DisplayPort 1.2 and the 10 Gbps USB port is limited to 8 Gbps because it uses an ASMedia ASM1142 USB controller. The Thunderbolt port can do USB at full 10 Gbps.

Actually, that ASM1142 might be better than nothing because with it, you have two separate USB 3.1 gen 2 controllers (Thunderbolt and ASMedia) so it can do 18 Gbps of USB total.

Like many Alpine Ridge Thunderbolt docks, the TS3 Plus uses all four lanes of PCIe from the Thunderbolt controller for different controllers (without adding expensive PCIe switches).

- x1 Intel I210-AT Ethernet Controller (1 Gbps)
- x1 Fresco Logic FL1100 USB controller (4 Gbps)
- x1 Fresco Logic FL1100 USB controller (4 Gbps)
- x1 ASMedia ASM1142 USB controller (8 Gbps)
- Thunderbolt USB controller (10 Gbps)

With the Fresco Logic chips, there is four USB buses in the dock. The total USB bandwidth is 4+4+8+10=26 Gbps which is enough to saturate the 24 Gbps PCIe max of Thunderbolt.

The video (and comments) indicates that the USB Type A port next to the USB-C port is also connected to the ASM1142 (a two-port controller) so it should also be able to do 8 Gbps. There is a bug in the ASM1142 chip where it may report a device is connected at 5 Gbps but is actually connected at 10 Gbps, so you need to use a fast USB device (such as a USB to NVMe enclosure) to test the USB-C port and the USB-A port.

The Fresco Logic ports are four-port USB controllers. 8 ports total:
- 4 type A
- type C
- audio in/out analog and digital
- SD card reader
- one port is unaccounted for?
Use ioreg or System Information.app to decipher which ports are connected to which bus to determine the best way to balance the USB bandwidth.

Many Titan Ridge docks with 10 Gbps just connect 10 Gbps hubs to the Thunderbolt controller - so while all the ports can do 10 Gbps (none are limited to 8 Gbps), the total is only 10 Gbps. But Titan Ridge (and Thunderbolt 4 - Goshen Ridge) are the only ways to get DisplayPort 1.4. There are some Titan Ridge docks that use the PCIe connection (all four lanes) for NVME so at least the PCIe connection is not wasted.

 

[mcdreamer]

Thanks for this. I'd actually found that video and watched the majority prior to making my purchase. I'm not a hardware engineer (C++ software developer) so I couldn't make sense of all the details, but overall the guy seemed pretty impressed. The fact that the dock uses all of the available PCIe lanes to maximise TB3 bandwidth use and minimise contention seems like a solid approach to me. I won't be using every port at the same time so I should be able to balance things out pretty nicely. With a device like this you're always going to be somewhat constrained by the fact you're sharing bus bandwidth across multiple ports. It's a good tip to use tools to determine the best way to minimise this.

 

[joevt]

Maybe balancing USB bandwidth isn't necessary if you're not planning to read or write to multiple high bandwidth devices at the same time. On a single bus, you can read and write simultaneously to two different devices without penalty because each direction has its own wires (slower buses like USB 2.0 use the same wires for sending and receiving).

With 4 separate USB buses in the TS 3 Plus, you can have full USB 3.0 bandwidth (4 Gbps of data) on 6 different USB ports (one port for each FL1100, and two ports of a USB 3.1 gen 2 hub connected to each USB 3.1 gen 2 bus). That would allow 6 full bandwidth DisplayLink connections. Considering that many DisplayLink devices can connect two displays, that could allow up to 12 displays but I think the software limits you to 4 DisplayLink displays in macOS?

The Plugable doesn't seem to use the entire 4 lanes of PCIe - maybe it has one FL1100 and one Ethernet controller. I guess fewer devices is one way to make it less expensive to make.

The OWC 14 port Thunderbolt 3 dock probably has similar controllers as the TS 3 Plus. 7 USB 3.0 devices or ports (the two SD slots use the same port), one USB 3.1 gen 2 port - probably from a ASM1142 and therefore maybe the other port of the ASM1142 is used by a Type A port that's marked as USB 3.0 like the TS3 Plus? So there's one or two unaccounted ports.

 

[chrfr]

TS3 Plus is limited to DisplayPort 1.2 and the 10 Gbps USB port is limited to 8 Gbps because it uses an ASMedia ASM1142 USB controller. The Thunderbolt port can do USB at full 10 Gbps.

That's good info, thanks.
Caldigit publishes a document that illustrates the bandwidth allocation, for those who prefer pictures: https://www.caldigit.com/ts3-plus-interface-bandwidth-allocation-and-diagram/

 

[arfung]

I have an m1 MacBook Pro - Caldidgit TS3 - many peripherals (5k LG ultrafine, Yeti X mic, usb trackpad, keyboard, etc.). It's worked fine since Big Sur, but sometimes monitor would take a while to wake up. I almost always run the M1 MacBook Pro in clamshell mode.

Since 11.2.2 update (this morning), wake up from sleep while docked seems to work much better - waking up from sleep much quicker.

 

[ssavanna]

I use the Anker PowerExpand Elite Thunderbolt 3 docking station with the MacBook Pro M1 and LG Ultrafine 5k. It works pretty flawlessly. Haven't had any issues at all. It seems like the issues most folks have with many of these docks is when attempting to use multiple displays..

 

[joevt]

Caldigit publishes a document that illustrates the bandwidth allocation, for those who prefer pictures: https://www.caldigit.com/ts3-plus-interface-bandwidth-allocation-and-diagram/

I forgot about that picture. A note about each group:
1) Only 3 ports are shown (the digital and analog audio are USB device) so I wonder if there's a fourth port used internally for something.
2) Both #1 and #2 are actually 4 Gbps of data each because the FL1100 is limited to PCIe 2.0 x1. USB 3.0 is limited to 4 Gbps because it uses 8b/10b encoding.
3) This is 7.88 Gbps of data because the ASM1142 is limited to PCIe 3.0 x1. I would like to see someone get more than 5 Gbps from the USB Type A port to see if it's possible. USB 3.1 gen 2 is limited to 9.7 Gbps because it uses 64/66b encoding.

They should have added a group 5 for the Thunderbolt port + DisplayPort port (plus all of #1, #2, #3, #4):
5) 40 Gbps Thunderbolt (PCIe + DisplayPort + DMA), 24 Gbps PCIe, 10 Gbps USB (not the 7.88 Gbps of #3)
DMA mean stuff like Thunderbolt networking, Thunderbolt Target Display Mode, Thunderbolt Target Disk Mode.

The design of the TS3 Plus is interesting. It has a Thunderbolt board containing the power input and the Thunderbolt controller which connects the external DisplayPort and Thunderbolt ports. The Thunderbolt board is connected to the PCIe board via PCIe from the Thunderbolt controller. This is like many Thunderbolt PCIe expansion chassis or eGPUs.

EDIT: Thunderbolt Target Display Mode uses mostly DisplayPort tunnelling.

 

[mcdreamer]

I now have the TS3 Plus set up and I'm very pleased with it. Some initial thoughts:

- I expected the device to be small and it is indeed nice and compact.
- It doesn't seem to get too hot with multiple devices connected. It gets slightly warm to the touch but the chassis seems to do a good job of dissipating the heat. It's also completely silent owing to the fact it contains no fan.
- The only issue I've had so far is that my monitor seems to disappear after the M1 goes to sleep if connected via the TB3 port to the monitor's DP in. This is in both in clamshell mode and with the lid open. I don't know whether this happens every time but it does seem to occur in the majority cases when waking the machine. The monitor comes back if I reconnect it to the TS3 Plus. Connecting via the DP port on the TS3 Plus seems to alleviate this issue.
- The supplied TB3 cable is a little short. It's just about long enough for my set up but a little more wriggle room would have been nice.
- Connecting just a single cable to the Mac to dock is really nice. Previously on my old Pro I had to connect four cables. Small thing but still great.

 

[jdb8167]

I now have the TS3 Plus set up and I'm very pleased with it. Some initial thoughts:


- The only issue I've had so far is that my monitor seems to disappear after the M1 goes to sleep if connected via the TB3 port to the monitor's DP in. This is in both in clamshell mode and with the lid open. I don't know whether this happens every time but it does seem to occur in the majority cases when waking the machine. The monitor comes back if I reconnect it to the TS3 Plus. Connecting via the DP port on the TS3 Plus seems to alleviate this issue.
- The supplied TB3 cable is a little short. It's just about long enough for my set up but a little more wriggle room would have been nice.

Have you updated to Big Sur 11.2.2? This seems to have solved my Display Port wake from sleep issues. I'm using a USB-C dock from Caldigit (SOHO) and not Thunderbolt though.

Thunderbolt cables longer than about .8 meters have to be active which is expensive. (To get 40GB/s anyway.)

 

[tommiy]

So maybe a TB4 Element Hub rather than an Alpine Ridge?

CalDigit's Latest Dock Features Four Thunderbolt 4 Ports and Four USB-A Ports - MacRumors

 

[mcdreamer]

Have you updated to Big Sur 11.2.2? This seems to have solved my Display Port wake from sleep issues. I'm using a USB-C dock from Caldigit (SOHO) and not Thunderbolt though.

Thunderbolt cables longer than about .8 meters have to be active which is expensive. (To get 40GB/s anyway.)

Yes, I'm in 11.2.2. Now that I'm connected via the DisplayPort connection on the CalDigit rather than via TB3 I've had no problems at all. Very happy with this setup.

I didn't know there was a requirement for longer cables to be active. I have a longer TB2 cable but I guess the requirements are different there. I've not delved too much into this side of things but it does all seem to be more complicated than would be ideal - especially given all of these cables and ports (USB-C vs TB3 etc) look exactly the same.

The other thing which has been something of a relief is that I can in fact use the TS3+ with my MacBook Pro 16" along with the Apple 96W charger. It felt a bit funny plugging in two devices which can supply power but macOS seems to be clever about figuring out which device to draw power from. I'd seen some people here and in other places discussing this setup so I knew it should work, but it still felt a bit odd the first time I tried it!

 

[jdb8167]

Yes, I'm in 11.2.2. Now that I'm connected via the DisplayPort connection on the CalDigit rather than via TB3 I've had no problems at all. Very happy with this setup.

I didn't know there was a requirement for longer cables to be active. I have a longer TB2 cable but I guess the requirements are different there. I've not delved too much into this side of things but it does all seem to be more complicated than would be ideal - especially given all of these cables and ports (USB-C vs TB3 etc) look exactly the same.

The other thing which has been something of a relief is that I can in fact use the TS3+ with my MacBook Pro 16" along with the Apple 96W charger. It felt a bit funny plugging in two devices which can supply power but macOS seems to be clever about figuring out which device to draw power from. I'd seen some people here and in other places discussing this setup so I knew it should work, but it still felt a bit odd the first time I tried it!

TB2 cables are more or less equivalent to TB3 cables that run at 20 GB/s. Those can be longer without being active at the expense of the full bandwidth of TB3.

 

[gogogo2]

intel tb3 chip JHL7440

 

[joevt]

So maybe a TB4 Element Hub rather than an Alpine Ridge?

CalDigit's Latest Dock Features Four Thunderbolt 4 Ports and Four USB-A Ports - MacRumors

Depends on what you want to do.

The Element Hub has two more downstream Thunderbolt ports. You can connect two USB-C displays (when using Intel Mac) - most Thunderbolt docks only have one USB-C DisplayPort Alt Mode capable port which is the downstream Thunderbolt port (one exception is the HP Thunderbolt Dock G2). The Element Hub uses Goshen Ridge so it can do DisplayPort 1.4 like Titan Ridge (Alpine Ridge is limited to DisplayPort 1.2).

I believe the Element Hub uses two USB 10Gbps hubs chained together to a single USB port of the Goshen Ridge Thunderbolt controller. That means it has only one USB bus with a total max USB bandwidth of 10 Gbps. If you want to use more PCIe bandwidth simultaneously (up to 24 Gbps - I'm not sure when you would want to do that) then you need to connect other Thunderbolt devices which will have their own USB buses (or NVME or SATA or whatever).

 

[joevt]

intel tb3 chip JHL7440

Was this an answer for someone?
The CalDigit doesn't use Titan Ridge JHL7440, otherwise it would support DisplayPort 1.4.

 

[hunkim]

I use the Anker PowerExpand Elite Thunderbolt 3 docking station with the MacBook Pro M1 and LG Ultrafine 5k. It works pretty flawlessly. Haven't had any issues at all. It seems like the issues most folks have with many of these docks is when attempting to use multiple displays..

I have the exact same setup (Laptop and monitor as well) - no issues either but man I feel like I'm going to come to my desk one day and see this hub on fire (so hot to the touch, even w/ minimal activity). Based on research seems like running hot is a fairly normal thing (w/ hubs that have ethernet and PD) w/ these type of hubs.

 

[VArase]

Those two should work fine. I'd also check here: https://www.owcshop.eu/catalog/index.php/thunderbolt-docks-c-334_371

In the past I've had problems with OWC's Thunderbolt 2 dock which led me to replace it with a Sonnet Echo 15+ which got me another blu ray drive and more thermal headroom - so I really wasn't into giving another OWC dock a try.

I also had problems with two of their Mercury Elite Pro Docks (which really isn't a dock but is more of a Thunderbolt enclosure) causing kernel panics with JBOD disks. That's why I now have a Thunderbay 4 running JBOD - at least this enclosure didn't go crazy and cause kernel panics.

None of these things are perfect - and all docks I've seen produce more heat than is healthy. They ought to make one with a fan, or with circuitry which produces less heat.

 

[satcomer]

Just say something on a Thunderbolt 4 Dock from CalDigit 4 Element!