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Calling all users with a MacPro5,1 and 3rd party GPU (with or without fan issues!)

S

ScottishCaptain

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Oct 4, 2008
871
475
So it's common knowledge that the Mac Pro systems suffer from some sort of thermal control issue when a third party GPU is installed in slot 1. I would like to know why.

In order to figure this out, I need to find some users who have and do not have this problem. I personally only have a MacPro5,1 system, so I'd like to limit the results to other MacPro5,1 systems for now (but if I can find a solution, it might apply to the 3,1 and 4,1 systems as well).

If you would like to participate, please perform the following actions. No personally identifiable information will be transmitted.

1) Go into System Profiler (Apple Menu -> About This Mac -> More Info -> System Report), and write down the SMC version numbers listed for the system and processor tray. Please include these in your post with the file generated by the following step.

2) Download the attached archive, and extract it somewhere. The archive contains two files; "dump_smc.command" and "smc-command". Both files should be in the same location. Once they are, double-click on "dump_smc.command". Terminal.app will open, sit there for a few seconds, then say something about the process being completed. You can quit Terminal.app at this point.

Please upload the "smc_dump.txt" file (which will be placed in the same folder as the above two files) to this forum thread, along with the SMC version numbers you retrieved in step 1.

This information does NOT contain any personally identifiable information, nor does it contain any of your system serial numbers. This is just harmless information like fan speeds, current consumption, etc. I need samples from people who are and aren't affected by the third party PCI-e/PSU fan speed issues in order to determine what is different between these machines that is causing the issue.

PS: smc-command is a binary file, which was compiled from the source code over at https://github.com/hholtmann/smcFanControl/tree/master/smc-command. If you're paranoid about this (and I don't blame you if you are), you can go through the source code there yourself- the utility itself is completely harmless and only reads information from your system, it doesn't change anything.

-SC
 

Attachments

  • dump_smc.zip
    6.7 KB · Views: 197
To my knowledge, all users have this "problem". A better question is to ask what graphics card you're using in addition to the above information, as different graphics cards have different power requirements.

Using an admittedly small sample size of 10 Mac Pros, all of them have this "problem" when using GTX 680s. It's almost definitely a power draw sensor issue and there is no easy fix short of rewriting firmware. If you are able to do this, that's awesome and I commend you.

Overall though, it's kind of annoying, but not really a big deal. Just load the graphics card on hard power up and there will be no more issues that power cycle, including soft boots.

EDIT: There may be multiple issues. I'm referring to the one where PCI fan speeds rev to ~1500rpm and PSU to the ~1000 range, when it normally should be around 800 and 600 respectively. I strongly believe this is related to power, not thermals.
 
I've heard that some people don't. That's what puzzles me- how can systems with identical SMC firmware (since there has never been a public update for the 2009/2010 systems with the dual SMC setup) behave differently?

The only answers to this question are:

1) Apple used different voltage and current sensors on various logic boards without revising the P/N

2) Apple made a minor change to the SMC configuration tables stored in the EPM UV and UC regions of the Renesas H8S firmware (colloquially known as the "SMC"), but without modifying the SMC firmware version itself (since it's obvious Apple designed the firmware to be semi-modular in that the EPM UV and EC configurations are kept separate from the User MAT region that holds the actual executable code)

Either answers can be confirmed by running the tool I attached and sending me the results. As far as non-Apple branded GPUs go, the SMC doesn't care about the make or model of the GPU. The only input data it has is from the voltage and current sensors. This data is included in the dump I've requested using smc-command, since it's the only thing that matters in regards to this problem.

In any case, I can't tell anything without some kind of data points. I only have the system I'm on, and that's just a singular MacPro5,1. We need to figure out if ALL systems are affected, or only some, and if only some- then what makes those machines different from the rest.

-SC
 
Well first let's confirm that some people actually don't have this problem. I'm not convinced that this is true until more people chime in. I would guess some of the cases of people saying they don't have this problem with third-party cards is because they are using lower power cards, without specifying the card.

Does anyone using the GTX 680 or 7xxx series NOT have this issue?
 
I've certainly got the issue with a GTX 670 in my 2010 5,1. Oddly it behaves differently in slots 1 and 2. In slot one it winds up to 1,400+ upon cold start and then, after running the OpenGL Extensions test, falls to 800 within 30 seconds. Running a GPU intensive application like Octane does not cause it to spin up much, maybe 1,200 max, while the PSU fan barely moves. In slot 2 it hovers around 1,100 whether I've run the OpenGL fix or not, and Octane causes it to spin up to almost 2,000, with the PSU at ~1,500. Also, it takes a while to wind back down to 1,100.

Same card, different slot, very different results.

Edit: This is from my System Profiler:
SMC Version (system): 1.39f11
SMC Version (processor tray): 1.39f11
 
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thank god the nMP came in. 1,1 with a 4870, what a headache. I yanked it and it's a zombie mac now running a raid
 
d-m-a-x said:
thank god the nMP came in. 1,1 with a 4870, what a headache. I yanked it and it's a zombie mac now running a raid
Click to expand...

Please keep this thread on topic. We are not discussing the nMP here. If you want to discuss the nMP, please take it to another thread, or start your own.

-SC
 
I have Mid 2010 Mac Pro and the EVGA GTX 680 Mac Edition.
I don't have any fan issues.
 
Rohirm said:
I am at work now, but I'll check the fan speeds when I get back to home.
It sounds a lot quieter than the original HD5870.
Click to expand...

If you could run the utility I uploaded in the original post and upload the smc_dump.txt file it provides, that would be awesome. This will let me check and see if there's something about your system that differs from everyone else who has the fan issue.

Thanks!
-SC
 
I have a MacPro 4.1 which had had its firmware upgraded to 5.1 to allow a 6 Core CPU. Additionally I installed a EVGA Geforce GTX 680 and although the PCI fan spins up on boot (about a second before the login screen and until the desktop has loaded) I don't have any fan issues.

Obviously the fans spin up when playing games or running benchmarks but that is normal.

In fact I would say my Nac is now quieter with the GTX680 than it was with the ATI 4870 it came with (which also spun up during boot).
 
I don't have the issue on my 2012 with an EVGA GTX680. Will check the relevant details when I get back to it tomorrow.
 
Rohirm and sunsetsothickly- if you could post your smc_dump.txt (instructions are in the first thread), it would be greatly appreciated.

-SC
 
I have a 3,1 GTX 680 2Gb PC reference EFI flashed and if anything it's too quiet. Silence on boot and only gets noticeable when pushed hard for long. Much quieter than the 8800GT it replaced.

Think the issue the OP north of Hadrian's wall wants to research is a common problem to the 4/5,1. As a few of my clients also have these with big aftermarket cards it will be interesting to see what the statistics pan out after a decent sample group.
 
ScottishCaptain said:
Rohirm and sunsetsothickly- if you could post your smc_dump.txt (instructions are in the first thread), it would be greatly appreciated.

-SC
Click to expand...

My Mac Pro 5,1 both SMC-versions are 1.39f11

PCI-E expansion slot fan speed is 800rpm.
PSU fan speed is 600rpm.
I don't know how to check the GTX680 fan speed, but it is quiet.

The smc_dump.txt file is attached to the message.
 

Attachments

  • smc_dump.txt
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I have a 5,1 with a Macvidcards modified ATI 7970 3gb in slot 1

Twice the fans on the 7970 have gone crazy. The "fix" was to pull the card out and place it in my 2008 3,1 Macpro and put my original Apple ATI card in the 5,1 and boot up. Then I swap them back and the fans behave normal again.

This has happened twice to me and the solution above has worked twice.

I'll post my smc info when I get home from work and run the tool.
 
No issues for me:

SMC Version (system): 1.39f11
SMC Version (processor tray): 1.39f11

I've used two MVC Flashed GTX cards in this machine. Both Gigabyte 3 fan models. The first was a GTX 570 I'm now running an over clocked GTX 780.

Lou
 
ybz90 said:
Does anyone using the GTX 680 or 7xxx series NOT have this issue?
Click to expand...

I don't have this issue. EVGA 4GB GTX 680 FTW Edition flashed with EFI in slot 1 on a MP 5,1. This is a 6+8pin powered card. I am now overclocking it too.
 
mid 2012 mac pro 5,1 with evga gtx680. I don't have the issue. The only thing I see is a spin up and back down after a SMC reset....after that all is normal.
 
Very interesting, perhaps it is selective then and indeed there are users without this issue.

----------
Mac Moof said:
I have a MacPro 4.1 which had had its firmware upgraded to 5.1 to allow a 6 Core CPU. Additionally I installed a EVGA Geforce GTX 680 and although the PCI fan spins up on boot (about a second before the login screen and until the desktop has loaded) I don't have any fan issues.
Click to expand...

What you describe might be the "issue". How high does your PCI fan get.
 
Here ya go:

SMC Version (system): 1.39f11
SMC Version (processor tray): 1.39f11
 

Attachments

  • smc_dump.txt
    5.1 KB · Views: 249
2012 model 6-core 3.33 with a non-EFI EVGA GTX 670 in slot 1. Full details of my system's behavior are available in my recent thread.

SMC Version (system): 1.39f11
SMC Version (processor tray): 1.39f11

Rather than upload a single SMC report, I've created two:

  1. smc_dump_misbehavin.txt is a report after cold start. (fans are running improperly high)
  2. smc_dump_wellmannered.txt is a report of their proper behavior (after loading the GPU with OpenGL Extension Viewer)

I also compared them in Xcode's FileMerge, and created a handy screenshot of the comparison in case it's helpful. Just keep in mind that there are a few red herrings in the merge report (fan speeds can vary a few RPMs from moment to moment so some of the differences noted aren't real differences).

I hope this helps. Thanks!
 
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