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Fomalhaut

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Oct 6, 2020
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I have quite a lot of offline files in iCloud and other cloud storage providers (OneDrive, Google Drive) that end up on my internal SSD at:

iCloud:
under ~/Library/Mobile Documents/com~apple~CloudDocs

Other providers:
under ~/Library/CloudStorage

Is there a reliable and robust way of storing these files on external storage that is permanently attached to a desktop Mac?

My initial thought would be to move these files and create symbolic (soft) links with something like "ln -s ~/Library/CloudStorage /Volumes/MyExtSSD/CloudStorage".

However, I'm not sure if this would work.

I thought I would ask if anyone has done this before I start to experiment :)
 

NoBoMac

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Jul 1, 2014
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Will be interested if anyone has figured this out, but not holding out hope.

My understanding is that everything now uses Apple's FileProvider (and CloudKit for iCloud) to handle things and it restricts the services/folders to local storage and symbolic links do not work in this scenario.

(as a mini example, seem to recall that I used to have links in Dropbox to files on my internal drive, but once FileProvider got implemented, had to go the other direction: local file is a link to copy in Dropbox; and per Dropbox, no dice on moving to external)
 
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gilby101

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Google Drive lets you sync with a different folder. OneDrive and Dropbox do not.

The symbolic links method fails because there is more stuff (caches if you like) hidden away.
 
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Adora

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Jun 30, 2024
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For Proton Drive where I have the most storage it's not working. The folder is always in the Library and I can't change it. At least not in the menu.

I should continue writing mails to the support. Many things are still new there and can be changed.

Maybe there are configuration files that can be edited to change the folder if the apps don't have an option.
 

gilby101

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Maybe there are configuration files that can be edited to change the folder if the apps don't have an option.
I don't think there is anyway of changing the location of ~/Library/CloudStorage if the Cloud Provider framework is being used. Of the commonly used cloud sync services, GoogleDrive seems to be only one which gives you a choice about using the framework.
Is there a reliable and robust way of storing these files on external storage that is permanently attached to a desktop Mac?
There are at least two types of alternative (all will cost you):

GoodSync (with its very non Mac like interface) https://www.goodsync.com/ will do regular synchronisations. I have used it with daily syncs.

MountainDuck https://mountainduck.io/ connects to OneDrive, etc. using a cache which can be on an external disk and displays the storages as NFS mounted disks. This is easy to use. CloudMounter is similar but when (some years ago) I compared, MountainDuck seemed more reliable.

Edit: I should add that MS is being "difficult" about connections to OneDrive by third-party apps. By "difficult" I include throttling (which might not be too bad) and giving errors. I use three MS365 accounts for backup (using Arq) - one of them has become unusable for that purpose. I would stop using OneDrive if it were not for the storage that comes as part of MS365 which I use for Office apps.

There are reports that GoogleDrive is making it more difficult for third-party apps, but I have not had problems (so far).
 
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Fomalhaut

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Thanks for your replies. The reason for my question is to determine whether I can "go cheap" on a new M4 Pro Mini with 512GB SSD + external SSD, or whether I will need to pay the Apple Tax ($200 for an extra 512GB - WTF!!!) to get a 1TB internal SSD.

I *could* live with 512GB if I maintained a strict policy of regularly cleaning up my offline files, then but I would increase my "management overhead" for the next few years for the sake of $200. I'll have to decide whether this is a worthwhile trade-off between effort vs money!
 

gilby101

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Given the personal overheads in managing a smaller drive, the 1TB internal would seem to be a bargain for you.

The alternative that people are considering is a smaller drive for system plus applications and putting your home folder on an external SSD (TB3 probably). Right now there are too many unknowns as to what works and what doesn't, so it is hard to recommend. In particular, does iCloud Drive (and maybe other cloud services) work if the home folder is not on the internal? Look in the Mac Mini forum if you might be tempted by this suggestion.
 

Fomalhaut

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Given the personal overheads in managing a smaller drive, the 1TB internal would seem to be a bargain for you.

The alternative that people are considering is a smaller drive for system plus applications and putting your home folder on an external SSD (TB3 probably). Right now there are too many unknowns as to what works and what doesn't, so it is hard to recommend. In particular, does iCloud Drive (and maybe other cloud services) work if the home folder is not on the internal? Look in the Mac Mini forum if you might be tempted by this suggestion.
I asked the question regarding moving the iCloud / Cloud Storage folders to an external drive on another thread, and the general consensus was that it was at best "risky" or just wouldn't work because of relative links within the file structure of the iCloud drive.

I had a quick check of my "on disk" usage for the ~/Library folders and it was actually a lot less than I thought - only about 5GB "on disk" for ~/Library/CloudStorage and ~/Library/iCloud Drive - which is trivial.

I should be able to move the other typical space-hogs (Mobile backups and system Photo library) to an external without too many issues, so probably the 512GB *would* be sufficient, and given the sustained speeds are close to 5GB/s for both read/write, I don't see this as being a huge sacrifice in performance compared to the 1TB SSD.

I would budget about 100GB for OS, Applications & supporting files, another 100GB for on-disk cloud storage files, leaving about 300GB for working space for things such as downloads, temporary working files, audio/video projects (but not media) and swap space (hopefully small as I intend to get 48GB RAM). I reckon 512GB will actually be fine for this.
 

gilby101

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I would budget about 100GB for OS, Applications & supporting files, another 100GB for on-disk cloud storage files, leaving about 300GB for working space for things such as downloads, temporary working files, audio/video projects (but not media) and swap space (hopefully small as I intend to get 48GB RAM). I reckon 512GB will actually be fine for this.
Probably would be fine. For now. Do consider the whole lifetime of the Mac.
 
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Adora

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Jun 30, 2024
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I don't think there is anyway of changing the location of ~/Library/CloudStorage if the Cloud Provider framework is being used. Of the commonly used cloud sync services, GoogleDrive seems to be only one which gives you a choice about using the framework.

There are at least two types of alternative (all will cost you):

GoodSync (with its very non Mac like interface) https://www.goodsync.com/ will do regular synchronisations. I have used it with daily syncs.

MountainDuck https://mountainduck.io/ connects to OneDrive, etc. using a cache which can be on an external disk and displays the storages as NFS mounted disks. This is easy to use. CloudMounter is similar but when (some years ago) I compared, MountainDuck seemed more reliable.

Edit: I should add that MS is being "difficult" about connections to OneDrive by third-party apps. By "difficult" I include throttling (which might not be too bad) and giving errors. I use three MS365 accounts for backup (using Arq) - one of them has become unusable for that purpose. I would stop using OneDrive if it were not for the storage that comes as part of MS365 which I use for Office apps.

There are reports that GoogleDrive is making it more difficult for third-party apps, but I have not had problems (so far).

I read it's somehow possible to run the complete Library from an external drive. I will install macOS on an external Thunderbolt drive, that is 4TB and faster than the internal one.
 

gilby101

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I read it's somehow possible to run the complete Library from an external drive. I will install macOS on an external Thunderbolt drive, that is 4TB and faster than the internal one.
That can work. The required steps will depend on your processor architecture.

Also you can move your whole user account to an external drive (keeping macOS on the internal).

Be warned, I have seen reports where people have had trouble getting iCloud working on external drives with Sequoia and Apple silicon (Mx) processor. Definite lack of clarity as to what works and what doesn't.

When I said "I don't think there is anyway of changing the location of ~/Library/CloudStorage", I should have said "I don't think there is anyway of changing the location of ~/Library/CloudStorage to be outside ~/Library"
 

Fomalhaut

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Oct 6, 2020
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That can work. The required steps will depend on your processor architecture.

Also you can move your whole user account to an external drive (keeping macOS on the internal).

Be warned, I have seen reports where people have had trouble getting iCloud working on external drives with Sequoia and Apple silicon (Mx) processor. Definite lack of clarity as to what works and what doesn't.

When I said "I don't think there is anyway of changing the location of ~/Library/CloudStorage", I should have said "I don't think there is anyway of changing the location of ~/Library/CloudStorage to be outside ~/Library"

You *should* be able to move a user's home directory to another disk using the "Advanced" options available when Control-clicking on the user (under the "Users and Groups" preference pane). I have never tried to change the home directory of an existing user, so I've no idea if this would mess things up, and it seems a bit risky to me. It would move everything, including the ~/Library folder where all the iCloud and CloudStorage files are stored, to the new user home location. I don't think I would risk my active admin user account with this, but It would probably be OK for a brand new user account.

A safer approach would be to set up soft links for the folders that are known to work (e.g. Mobile Sync for backups) and to set the Photos system library to point to an external disk

[UPDATE: I found a good YT video explaining the procedure for externalising the home directory here:
]
 
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Fishrrman

macrumors Penryn
Feb 20, 2009
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Disclaimer:
I don't use iCloud -- at least not to store ANY files (not one, not at all).

But what I would try:
1. Download all files stored in iCloud to your Mac,
then
2. Copy those [downloaded] files to the external drive,
then
3. TURN OFF any feature to "manage" storage (in iCloud or elsewhere).
 

Fomalhaut

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Oct 6, 2020
1,993
1,724
Disclaimer:
I don't use iCloud -- at least not to store ANY files (not one, not at all).

But what I would try:
1. Download all files stored in iCloud to your Mac,
then
2. Copy those [downloaded] files to the external drive,
then
3. TURN OFF any feature to "manage" storage (in iCloud or elsewhere).

This wouldn’t use iCloud to back up and sync my files to other devices, which is the whole point of using it!

My question was whether the downloaded icloud files can be stored on an external drive while still being managed by iCloud.

I can obviously just remove those files, but any changes won’t be synced, so it’s only valid for permanent files that will never change.
 
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