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aperantos

macrumors regular
Original poster
Feb 18, 2008
168
183
London, U.K.
This is going to sound like an Aperture replacement question, but any similarity with an application living or dead is purely coincidental.

I want to get back into doing something with my photos so can anyone recommend a photo library management program with the following features:

* Uses a reference library, as my photos are on an external hard disk
* Will at least cache thumbnails for 'offline' grouping and playing with metadata, better still will cache preview images for review
* On import will create some form of collection based on the folder name, with the photos in subfolders matching the way they are stored on disk
* It is not too expensive
* And it can run on Mojave, as I currently still use that for 32 bit support but it may change soon

The way I have my photos organized is all my raw files go on a partition on an external hard drive in the form:

/Volumes/Photographs/<year>/<month>/<date - situation>/<some sort of organizational folder>/<*.the photos!>

That works best for me for storage, but I want to be able to manage, group, and view them so need a suitable application. I do not care about editing features as I can do all that in Affinity Photo. Unfortunately this rules out a lot of possible applications on cost grounds, because the library management options are inseparable from editing features that make up the majority of the £100+ prices.

And while I able to pay a small price, I am not a professional. I have only ever sold one photo, by accident, in 2007. And I think I only charged whatever it cost to have the print made anyway. So I cannot afford the cost of the high end and subscription options.

Photos should be the obvious options, but though it works offline if you try and view an image, it also gives an error that it cannot find the original every time and I cannot see a way to stop that. It also does not have basic features like star ratings.

Lightroom might have been worth it, though I hated its way of working when it launches and have no idea if it has improved, but the subscription rules it out.

I tried the two main open source options, but digikam looks ugly and more importantly does not work with referenced libraries. darktable looks pretty good for a platform agnostic U.I., and though it lacks previews it was almost good enough. But it groups imports collections by "film roll," which is the full file path. Whil everything else is configurable with long lines of variables in its settings, this cannot be changed. And that is despite being able to change the collection view to use path, rendering "film roll" without any distinct meaning.

I have not tried Raw Power as it is a normal paid app on the App Store, but I get the impression it is just a recreation of the editing features of Aperture but relies on Photos for the organization.

Aperture seems the best option for me, as I was gifted a copy long ago and it is still runs on Mojave, but it makes no sense to start using that again when it is long since dead and will just be another thing holding me back from upgrading. It seems odd no one has tried to copy the interface though as, at least for me, it was perfectly structured.

There does seem to be many reasonably priced apps available but from reading web sites none seem to meet my requirement, but it is also so overwhelming to know where to start with trials. So any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
 

r.harris1

macrumors 68020
Feb 20, 2012
2,204
12,687
Denver, Colorado, USA
You’re not asking for much :D. Kidding aside, you’ve discounted a lot of the ones I’d suggest. It’s really going to be (and I’m sure you knew this) a matter of narrowing down and juggling your priorities. It’s the organizational bits that can often add cost to an application as it’s more sophisticated than may be initially apparent. I use Capture One Pro (and I’m not a ”pro”) - it doesn’t meet your cost requirement but does everything else, I believe. You’d have to run an older version I think for Mojave but they provide downloads for those once you purchase a version-based “perpetual” license. “Perpetual” means you can run the version you purchase (or an earlier one) for as long as you’d care to. You don’t get free updates to the next major version (yearly). To know for sure whether it meets your requirements (aside from cost), you’d need to do a trial, which they offer. They have great learning YouTube videos.

For straight up organizational capabilities with no real editing capabilities, I’d highly recommend Photo Mechanic over at camerabits.com. I don’t believe it meets your cost requirements although it’s still a good value over time because of how they license. I think Photo Mechanic Plus meets your offline requirements but I’m not sure (they have a trial as well). It has a learning curve but is worth it. I don’t know if I’d call their UI “beautiful”, more “90s”, but it’s super capable and super fast.

Sorry that neither meet your cost requirements, but perhaps they’ll lead you sideways into other tools that I don’t know about (and there are plenty :)).
 

lcubed

macrumors 6502a
Nov 19, 2020
540
326
try RAW Power. there's a trial version available through the developer's website. (gentlemanscoder.com)
and it can run in a standalone mode (vs as a plugin for Photos)
 
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robgendreau

macrumors 68040
Jul 13, 2008
3,469
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When you say you want a reference library you force yourself into parametric photo editing options like Photos and Lightroom, which you don't want.

Why not use a photo browser instead? far more likely to meet your needs at the price you want (cheap or free). Like say Adobe Bridge. Yes, you might not get offline viewing, but you're going to have to compromise on something.
 

mollyc

macrumors 604
Aug 18, 2016
7,991
49,703
I am not a professional but love Lightroom. I find the $10/month a nominal cost, but that's a personal opinion. The biggest hangup for you is that I doubt you could easily download a 32bit version at this point. But it otherwise really hits all your parameters. I don't think you will easily find something that checks every single box, so you will have to make some concessions somewhere.
 
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AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
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Lightroom is a bargain when considering the perpetual software has yearly updates that cost $$. Or course you don't have to update.
There are numerous photo editing software that offer free updates. I stopped using Adobe apps (CS5 and 6) the moment Adobe started their CC offerings. If you can sell your photos to offset the cost of one year subscription, then it is worth it. The same for a professional or a person who edits photos several times a week. That said, if I were to subscribe for using software, there are several alternatives out there, not just Adobe. But in general I prefer to pay upfront for "standalone" apps in my computer.

PhotoShop Elements 2022 has a photo organizer, but I have no idea if it has the features the OP is looking for. I believe that Capture One includes a photo organizer.
 
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lcubed

macrumors 6502a
Nov 19, 2020
540
326
there's always adobe bridge (which is free), but i've been staying away from subscription software.
 
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AlaskaMoose

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Apr 26, 2008
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there's always adobe bridge (which is free), but i've been staying away from subscription software.
That's true, I forgot about Bridge. Now, Elements is relatively inexpensive and one can do a lot with it for photo editing, but only if the 2022 version recognizes DXO's Nik software bundle. I couldn't get Elements to work with the Nik apps. Maybe there is a way; I just haven't had the time to figure it since I have DXO Photo Lab 5 and the Nik bundle, plus OneOne PhotoRaw 2023 (I preordered it), and Affinity Photo. Affinity Photo is quite good, but I find Photo Lab and the Nik apps a lot easier to learn and use.

In relation to the questions the OP of this thread has asked, I know the PS Elements 2022 has a photo organizer, but don't know if it would work.
 
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aperantos

macrumors regular
Original poster
Feb 18, 2008
168
183
London, U.K.
Thanks for all the replies, sorry it took me a while to get back here.

I use Capture One Pro (and I’m not a ”pro”) - it doesn’t meet your cost requirement but does everything else, I believe. You’d have to run an older version I think for Mojave but they provide downloads for those once you purchase a version-based “perpetual” license.

I think Photo Mechanic Plus meets your offline requirements but I’m not sure (they have a trial as well). It has a learning curve but is worth it. I don’t know if I’d call their UI “beautiful”, more “90s”, but it’s super capable and super fast.

Both of those are unfortunately the most expensive options so that ruled me out before looking much further into them. Those were the sort of apps I was thinking when saying it was a shame you could not separate the editing and library features into separate items. Although obviously that would not apply to Photo Mechanic, it too would mean having to pay for a lot of professional features I would never.

I do not feel like for just an average user my list of requirements is that complex or unusual, but I guess they must be as they only feature in high-end program. So as you say, it is going to be a case of where to make compromises. If only there was a way to get rid of the error message when viewing an 'offline' image in Photos I would have been willing to give it a try as I know there are work arounds for dealing with the lack of ratings etc.

When you say you want a reference library you force yourself into parametric photo editing options like Photos and Lightroom, which you don't want.

Why not use a photo browser instead? far more likely to meet your needs at the price you want (cheap or free). Like say Adobe Bridge. Yes, you might not get offline viewing, but you're going to have to compromise on something.

I am not looking to do any sort of editing offline, just the management parts. I have a lot of photos from over the years and from around 2016 to 2020 they just went on the hard disk never to even be looked at. So what I would like is a way of being able to look at what I have without needing an external hard disk connected, possibly hide away obviously unwanted ones, add titles, and make collections such as by picking out all interesting photos of a particular thing. I would be much more productive being able to decide on the spur of the moment to spend ten minutes going through them on my MacBook on the couch etc. then I would if I had to get the hard disk and sit at a desk.

But I do use Bridge as an online viewer, as it is an excellent application for navigating the hard disk storage. When searching for options before being overwhelmed and posting here, one of the free options I came across was XnViewMP. Which looks a good app and worked okay, but I really could not see how it was anything other than a direct alternative to Bridge.

I am not a professional but love Lightroom. I find the $10/month a nominal cost, but that's a personal opinion. The biggest hangup for you is that I doubt you could easily download a 32bit version at this point. But it otherwise really hits all your parameters. I don't think you will easily find something that checks every single box, so you will have to make some concessions somewhere.

When it and Aperture first came out I tried it but really did not like it while Aperture seemed perfect. But I cannot remember if that included how the Library module worked, or whether it only was the module nature comapred to a single interface. But I admit the £10/mo price which includes Photoshop is affordable and pretty good value that maybe a subscription to it of something similar prices is something I reluctantly need to consider.

Mojave is 64-bit, incidentally, it was just the last version to also support 32-bit. Though the current versions of Adobe software require Catalina, they are usually pretty good at keeping older versions online for compatibility. But I really need to review my apps and make the transition away from Mojave as it is no longer supported by Apple and is losing support from third-party developers. Over the years as a continuous Mac user I have only used around five versions of OS X / macOS despite actually buying OS X 10.0 on CD.

PhotoShop Elements 2022 has a photo organizer, but I have no idea if it has the features the OP is looking for. I believe that Capture One includes a photo organizer.

I did not even realize Photoshop Elements still existed. Though even if I had I would have just assumed it used Bridge for its library anyway. So thank you for a new idea for something to look into.

Incidentally, I have found Affinity Photo easy to use, though there are things I wish were easier. My biggest complaint, though, is that when editing I used to save files from Photoshop as TIFF thinking it would be better than a proprietary format. But loading them into Affinity Photo it can see curve layer but not read the data for them. Apparently because it is stored in a format Serif have no interest in trying to decode. And it ties you into their own proprietary format as though you can export other formats, you can only save as afPhoto.

Life is all just compromises!
 

AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
3,550
13,397
Alaska
Thanks for all the replies, sorry it took me a while to get back here.



Both of those are unfortunately the most expensive options so that ruled me out before looking much further into them. Those were the sort of apps I was thinking when saying it was a shame you could not separate the editing and library features into separate items. Although obviously that would not apply to Photo Mechanic, it too would mean having to pay for a lot of professional features I would never.

I do not feel like for just an average user my list of requirements is that complex or unusual, but I guess they must be as they only feature in high-end program. So as you say, it is going to be a case of where to make compromises. If only there was a way to get rid of the error message when viewing an 'offline' image in Photos I would have been willing to give it a try as I know there are work arounds for dealing with the lack of ratings etc.



I am not looking to do any sort of editing offline, just the management parts. I have a lot of photos from over the years and from around 2016 to 2020 they just went on the hard disk never to even be looked at. So what I would like is a way of being able to look at what I have without needing an external hard disk connected, possibly hide away obviously unwanted ones, add titles, and make collections such as by picking out all interesting photos of a particular thing. I would be much more productive being able to decide on the spur of the moment to spend ten minutes going through them on my MacBook on the couch etc. then I would if I had to get the hard disk and sit at a desk.

But I do use Bridge as an online viewer, as it is an excellent application for navigating the hard disk storage. When searching for options before being overwhelmed and posting here, one of the free options I came across was XnViewMP. Which looks a good app and worked okay, but I really could not see how it was anything other than a direct alternative to Bridge.



When it and Aperture first came out I tried it but really did not like it while Aperture seemed perfect. But I cannot remember if that included how the Library module worked, or whether it only was the module nature comapred to a single interface. But I admit the £10/mo price which includes Photoshop is affordable and pretty good value that maybe a subscription to it of something similar prices is something I reluctantly need to consider.

Mojave is 64-bit, incidentally, it was just the last version to also support 32-bit. Though the current versions of Adobe software require Catalina, they are usually pretty good at keeping older versions online for compatibility. But I really need to review my apps and make the transition away from Mojave as it is no longer supported by Apple and is losing support from third-party developers. Over the years as a continuous Mac user I have only used around five versions of OS X / mac
I did not even realize Photoshop Elements still existed. Though even if I had I would have just assumed it used Bridge for its library anyway. So thank you for a new idea for something to look into.

Incidentally, I have found Affinity Photo easy to use, though there are things I wish were easier. My biggest complaint, though, is that when editing I used to save files from Photoshop as TIFF thinking it would be better than a proprietary format. But loading them into Affinity Photo it can see curve layer but not read the data for them. Apparently because it is stored in a format Serif have no interest in trying to decode. And it ties you into their own proprietary format as though you can export other formats, you can only save as afPhoto.

Life is all just compromises!
Thanks for all the replies, sorry it took me a while to get back here.



Both of those are unfortunately the most expensive options so that ruled me out before looking much further into them. Those were the sort of apps I was thinking when saying it was a shame you could not separate the editing and library features into separate items. Although obviously that would not apply to Photo Mechanic, it too would mean having to pay for a lot of professional features I would never.

I do not feel like for just an average user my list of requirements is that complex or unusual, but I guess they must be as they only feature in high-end program. So as you say, it is going to be a case of where to make compromises. If only there was a way to get rid of the error message when viewing an 'offline' image in Photos I would have been willing to give it a try as I know there are work arounds for dealing with the lack of ratings etc.



I am not looking to do any sort of editing offline, just the management parts. I have a lot of photos from over the years and from around 2016 to 2020 they just went on the hard disk never to even be looked at. So what I would like is a way of being able to look at what I have without needing an external hard disk connected, possibly hide away obviously unwanted ones, add titles, and make collections such as by picking out all interesting photos of a particular thing. I would be much more productive being able to decide on the spur of the moment to spend ten minutes going through them on my MacBook on the couch etc. then I would if I had to get the hard disk and sit at a desk.

But I do use Bridge as an online viewer, as it is an excellent application for navigating the hard disk storage. When searching for options before being overwhelmed and posting here, one of the free options I came across was XnViewMP. Which looks a good app and worked okay, but I really could not see how it was anything other than a direct alternative to Bridge.



When it and Aperture first came out I tried it but really did not like it while Aperture seemed perfect. But I cannot remember if that included how the Library module worked, or whether it only was the module nature comapred to a single interface. But I admit the £10/mo price which includes Photoshop is affordable and pretty good value that maybe a subscription to it of something similar prices is something I reluctantly need to consider.

Mojave is 64-bit, incidentally, it was just the last version to also support 32-bit. Though the current versions of Adobe software require Catalina, they are usually pretty good at keeping older versions online for compatibility. But I really need to review my apps and make the transition away from Mojave as it is no longer supported by Apple and is losing support from third-party developers. Over the years as a continuous Mac user I have only used around five versions of OS X / macOS despite actually buying OS X 10.0 on CD.



I did not even realize Photoshop Elements still existed. Though even if I had I would have just assumed it used Bridge for its library anyway. So thank you for a new idea for something to look into.

Incidentally, I have found Affinity Photo easy to use, though there are things I wish were easier. My biggest complaint, though, is that when editing I used to save files from Photoshop as TIFF thinking it would be better than a proprietary format. But loading them into Affinity Photo it can see curve layer but not read the data for them. Apparently because it is stored in a format Serif have no interest in trying to decode. And it ties you into their own proprietary format as though you can export other formats, you can only save as afPhoto.

Life is all just compromises!
PS Elements is found at the Apple's App Store. I purchased Elements 2022 for my wife to use, but unlike previous versions I could not get the Nik apps to recognize it. I will try again sometime in the future :)

Anyway, I do save or export Affinity-edited photos to TIFF format, but I haven't tried to import or edit TIFF images. All I know is that when using Affinity Photo to edit, one has to export the image to the desktop or another location. If you are used to work with layers, then Affinity Photo resembles Photoshop. Affinity Photo works well with the Nik software bundle, but not as well as DXO's Photo Lab 5 and the Nik apps.

I am waiting for OneOne PhotoRaw 2023 upgrade at the moment. What I like about PhotoRaw is that it includes a module for portraiture work that is very efficient and quite easy to use while maintaining full control of it. Similarly, one can do with DXO Photo Lab, but not as easy as Photo Raw. This is the 2023 upgrade:
 

Ray2

macrumors 65816
Jul 8, 2014
1,145
461
I went through this when I left Aperture. For low cost, perhaps Adobe Bridge (I believe free). I used Photo Supreme for a while. Seems to provide what you want. In the end I wanted a bug-free product that was actively supported by someone I could expect to be around 2 years down the road. I went with Lightroom. For $10/month I’m delighted.

For a long discussion on DAM, might take a look at https://www.bkwinephotography.com/technology/good-dam-digital-asset-management-software/
 
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