Canon full frame advice

[mpfuchs]

I'm thinking about complementing my 7D Mark II with a full frame camera.
Being heavily invested in Canon lenses, for me only the 5D Mark IV and 5Ds R look to be options within a reasonable budget in the used market.

As an amateur, the 7D II made the most sense as far as bang for buck, especially since bird and wildlife photography is my main interest, but I made sure any lens I bought was full frame compatible, just in case.
On my recent trip, I rented a 6D Mark II to have a back up, but also to get the most out of my wide lenses.
Well, the 6D II didn't convince me, so the 5D series is what I'm looking at.

The 5D Mark IV can be had used for around $2000.
The 5Ds R seems to be around $1700 used.

My question for someone that has ideally used both, is it worth the extra cost for the newer 5D IV or will I be happier with the 50MP 5Ds R?
This camera will be mainly used for landscape and nightscape photography, maybe a couple portraits.

Thanks for any input!

 

[kenoh]

I'm thinking about complementing my 7D Mark II with a full frame camera.
Being heavily invested in Canon lenses, for me only the 5D Mark IV and 5Ds R look to be options within a reasonable budget in the used market.

As an amateur, the 7D II made the most sense as far as bang for buck, especially since bird and wildlife photography is my main interest, but I made sure any lens I bought was full frame compatible, just in case.
On my recent trip, I rented a 6D Mark II to have a back up, but also to get the most out of my wide lenses.
Well, the 6D II didn't convince me, so the 5D series is what I'm looking at.

The 5D Mark IV can be had used for around $2000.
The 5Ds R seems to be around $1700 used.

My question for someone that has ideally used both, is it worth the extra cost for the newer 5D IV or will I be happier with the 50MP 5Ds R?
This camera will be mainly used for landscape and nightscape photography, maybe a couple portraits.

Thanks for any input!

I havent had direct experience of them but I dont think the 5DSR has as good ISO performance as the 5DIV. Also, remember the rate at which a 50MP camera will fill up storage space and so may bring forward future investments there.

 

[tizeye]

While I haven shot Canon since my film days and still have an A1 on the shelf, you may want to see if you can rent the new EOS R mirrorless. No doubt the 5D Mark IV is a solid camera, but when I switched from a Nikon full frame DSLR to a Sony full frame mirrorless, it was night and day. You already know the 6D wasn't correct, so rent both the 5D and the EOS R to fully compare and decide.

 

[MacNut]

While I haven shot Canon since my film days and still have an A1 on the shelf, you may want to see if you can rent the new EOS R mirrorless. No doubt the 5D Mark IV is a solid camera, but when I switched from a Nikon full frame DSLR to a Sony full frame mirrorless, it was night and day. You already know the 6D wasn't correct, so rent both the 5D and the EOS R to fully compare and decide.

Is the mount on the EOS R compatible with the mirrored glass or do you need an adapter.

 

[tizeye]

Is the mount on the EOS R compatible with the mirrored glass or do you need an adapter.

It comes with an "R" adapter for Canon EF lenses, so nothing extra to buy. Camera is much lighter, but when you add the adapter takes it up about equal to the 7D in terms of weight.

 

[OreoCookie]

Same here, if you want to stay within the Canon camp, have a look at their mirrorless offering. Since you want to use it for portraits and landscapes, things like AF performance matter less. And you are future-proof.

 

[MCAsan]

A9 and reuse canon glass

 

[mpfuchs]

Thanks for the replies, guys!

I havent had direct experience of them but I dont think the 5DSR has as good ISO performance as the 5DIV. Also, remember the rate at which a 50MP camera will fill up storage space and so may bring forward future investments there.

ISO is a good point. Cramming in all those pixels doesn't help...

While I haven shot Canon since my film days and still have an A1 on the shelf, you may want to see if you can rent the new EOS R mirrorless. No doubt the 5D Mark IV is a solid camera, but when I switched from a Nikon full frame DSLR to a Sony full frame mirrorless, it was night and day. You already know the 6D wasn't correct, so rent both the 5D and the EOS R to fully compare and decide.

Same here, if you want to stay within the Canon camp, have a look at their mirrorless offering. Since you want to use it for portraits and landscapes, things like AF performance matter less. And you are future-proof.

Couple more points on the mirrorless side.
When the EOS M was first released, I jumped on it for portability. Not too long after Canon released model after model of upgraded cameras, all vastly improved over the original M. I still have the M3 now in my light travel kit and it's doing great for that.
But I don't want to make that mistake again of buying the first generation of new tech.

Second, I was hoping a lot of people would make the switch to the EOS R, therefore flooding the used market with full frame dSLRs!

A9 and reuse canon glass

The 5D series having the same button layout as my 7D is the other reason besides lenses that keeps me looking at Canons.

Still hopeful, someone on here has used both cameras and could share some personal insight!

 

[Fishrrman]

Why not an EOS R ?

For Canon, mirrorless is "the future".

It will work with all your existing EF lenses, AND work with the EF-S lenses, as well (although the images will be cropped).
If you get a mirrored Canon full-frame, it WILL NOT work with any of your EF-S lenses (I believe).

No more fooling with micro-focus adjustments, that no longer applies with mirrorless.

If you get an EOS R, pay $100 extra for the Canon lens adapter with the control ring.
It will make your existing EF lenses MORE useful with the mirrorless mount.

 

[MacNut]

Is it worth waiting for the EOS R II.

 

[MCAsan]

Is it worth waiting for the EOS R II.

With what feature content?

 

[MacNut]

With what feature content?

I believe the current version does not have IBIS.

 

[CmdrLaForge]

I bought myself the Canon 6D Mark2 and love it but you said already you don’t like it. Good idea is to go to a camera store and try the R vs the 5D MIV. I have the M5 as well and from that experience I am not so enthusiastic about mirrorless cameras hence I got the 6D after and not the R.

 

[OreoCookie]

I believe the current version does not have IBIS.

Neither do the other cameras the OP is interested in. Getting an R now would have the advantage that the OP could from now on invest in lenses that sport Canon‘s new mirrorless full frame lens mount. By now there have been plenty of reviews on the R, and they are as you would expect from a camera with these specs. The sensor being largely identical to what Canon uses in the 5D Mark IV is a known quantity, too.

When the EOS M was first released, I jumped on it for portability. Not too long after Canon released model after model of upgraded cameras, all vastly improved over the original M. I still have the M3 now in my light travel kit and it's doing great for that.

The EOS M was an intentionally crippled camera with decidedly consumer ergonomics, limited availability, consumer-grade lenses and mediocre marketing. The EOS R is a pro-level camera that Canon knows has to be its future.

 

[bjorn989]

Neither do the other cameras the OP is interested in. Getting an R now would have the advantage that the OP could from now on invest in lenses that sport Canon‘s new mirrorless full frame lens mount. By now there have been plenty of reviews on the R, and they are as you would expect from a camera with these specs. The sensor being largely identical to what Canon uses in the 5D Mark IV is a known quantity, too.

The EOS M was an intentionally crippled camera with decidedly consumer ergonomics, limited availability, consumer-grade lenses and mediocre marketing. The EOS R is a pro-level camera that Canon knows has to be its future.

Yeah I bought the R in November. It is an amazing camera (upgraded from a 6D mk1).

The mount adapter works flawlessly with existing Canon lenses. Its AF system is the best in the Canon line up as well. Just get the adapter with the control ring. I use mine for aperture adjustments and I think it would be hard to go back.

It has the same sensor as the 5Dmk IV. The main reason to get it is the autofocus and digital viewfinder though. Mirrorless makes shooting so much easier.

Good luck with your decision!

 

[tcphoto1]

The EOS R may be the future but they’ve only released the one body. The 5Ds and 5DsR may be 50MP but they will expose any technical weaknesses the user may have. I decided back in October to replace my 1Dx and 1DsIII and I went with a couple of 5DIV’s. There may be a pro version of the EOS R soon but I wasn’t going to wait on it, I need 18+MP, full frame and two card slots to use it on an Advertising or Commercial shoot.

 

[OreoCookie]

For what it is worth, the sensors in the 5D Mark IV and EOS R are almost identical. The only reason to look at dslrs now is to get a deal on them on the used market, although it may be a bit too early for that.

 

[mpfuchs]

Glad to see a few people to chime in, that actually own the cameras in question.
The EOS R is not in the running for me at this point, mainly because I'm hoping to get a deal on a used camera.

Sill hoping somebody that's used both cameras will share their specific observations...

 

[OreoCookie]

Glad to see a few people to chime in, that actually own the cameras in question.
The EOS R is not in the running for me at this point, mainly because I'm hoping to get a deal on a used camera.

To get very good deals on used dslrs due to the EOS R, I think it is still way too early. The EOS R is just trickling into the market, and I don't think you will get substantial market penetration until Canon has expanded the line-up downwards. (Note that I think Sony's full frame mirrorless cameras on the other hand did push down prices on the used market, but that is not a recent phenomenon.)

Also, to help us, you should say why the 6D Mark II did not “convince you”? Was it the built quality? The autofocus system? Or something else?

 

[tizeye]

I have a friend who never buys used due to risk, but buys Canon refurbished through Canon which comes with a 1 year warranty. He has gotten some great deals on lens. Right now the new vs refurb price difference isn't that great with the $500 "sale reduction" on new making the 5Dm4 $2699 refurb vs $2799. https://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/eos-5d-mark-iv-body-refurbished

Both B&H and KEH don't have used 5dM4 in stock. Gave up checking others but suggest used supply is tight. May have to rely on the independent seller/ebay which increases the risk.

 

[mpfuchs]

Also, to help us, you should say why the 6D Mark II did not “convince you”? Was it the built quality? The autofocus system? Or something else?

The way I got my camera set up, I use the wheel at the shutter button for shutter speeds and the wheel in the back for aperture. That way I'm really quick at setting my exposure in any situation.
With the 6D II, you can't assign that function on the rear wheel. Meaning I had to go into the Q menu to make all those changes. I took the rental out to Bosque del Apache and felt I was tooling more at the back of the screen changing settings than through the view finder taking pictures.

I have a friend who never buys used due to risk, but buys Canon refurbished through Canon which comes with a 1 year warranty. He has gotten some great deals on lens. Right now the new vs refurb price difference isn't that great with the $500 "sale reduction" on new making the 5Dm4 $2699 refurb vs $2799. https://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/eos-5d-mark-iv-body-refurbished

Both B&H and KEH don't have used 5dM4 in stock. Gave up checking others but suggest used supply is tight. May have to rely on the independent seller/ebay which increases the risk.

You're right, going through eBay is a risk, but given the price difference one I'm willing to take.
Just have to read the descriptions well and ask questions to give you the best chance of getting a good camera.

I still have a couple of month to make my final decision, so we'll see what happens until then.

 

[fathergll]

Is it worth waiting for the EOS R II.

For most yes since you probably already have sufficient gear and the EOS R will not really enhance anything. It's a gen 1 product with few native glass. It will probably be a while before another version is out but I do expect Canon's next mirrorless will be a semi-pro level one priced around $3500 with a new sensor. This is where Canon outplayed Nikon IMO by releasing one mirrorless body instead of two at the same time.

 

[nburwell]

After shooting with the 5D series bodies for years, I can say you definitely won't go wrong with either the 5DIV or the 5DsR. Although I'd be sure your currently computer setup can handle the 50mp files if you go with the 5DsR (especially if you shoot in RAW).

After being out of the photography game for a couple years, I definitely get what the OP is saying about the 6D. Especially since that is the camera I'm using currently. But it didn't take me long to get adapted to the controls, even after shooting with the 5D, 5DII and 5DIII before trying Nikon out briefly.

 

[mpfuchs]

After shooting with the 5D series bodies for years, I can say you definitely won't go wrong with either the 5DIV or the 5DsR. Although I'd be sure your currently computer setup can handle the 50mp files if you go with the 5DsR (especially if you shoot in RAW).

After being out of the photography game for a couple years, I definitely get what the OP is saying about the 6D. Especially since that is the camera I'm using currently. But it didn't take me long to get adapted to the controls, even after shooting with the 5D, 5DII and 5DIII before trying Nikon out briefly.

Thanks for the reply, exactly what I was looking for!
My concern isn't just about the 6D, I guess. It's the combination of the two cameras I want to use, I'd prefer the controls on both the be the same, so I don't have to think which camera I'm holding before changing any of the settings...

 

[nburwell]

Thanks for the reply, exactly what I was looking for!
My concern isn't just about the 6D, I guess. It's the combination of the two cameras I want to use, I'd prefer the controls on both the be the same, so I don't have to think which camera I'm holding before changing any of the settings...

I certainly get it. It took me a few times playing around with the 6D controls to get used to it. If I'm being honest, I'm still figuring out the in's and out's of the camera still, even after two weeks of owning it.

The 5D series are exceptionally great cameras. I suspect you'll be very happy with whatever body you go with.