Can't boot after mounting System Volume as writeable

[kkinto]

I followed some instructions for mounting the Startup System HD as writeable, threw away some fonts in the /System/Library/Fonts/Supplemental/ folder, ran the end commands which are supposed to 'rebuild the kerne cache' and 'create a new snapshot' but it seems they don't work. The last commands after mounting the drive and making changes were:

sudo kmutil install --volume-root ~/livemount --update-all
sudo bless --folder ~/livemount/System/Library/CoreServices --bootefi --create-snapshot

Now I can't startup off that drive, it will try to boot, fail, reboot and then go automatically into Recovery. SIP is disabled btw.

Is there any way to fix this without reinstalling OS over it again (and undoing what I did deleting files)?

Reason to write to system: no other way to get rid of over 150 useless fonts I have to scroll through all the time in Adobe apps - FontExplorer Pro is unable to access these folders to disable the fonts and Apple's Fontbook manager is just completely useless for a designer working with a lot of documents and font library [/System/Library/Font/Supplemental/]

Thanks

 

[StoneJack]

I followed some instructions for mounting the Startup System HD as writeable, threw away some fonts in the /System/Library/Fonts/Supplemental/ folder, ran the end commands which are supposed to 'rebuild the kerne cache' and 'create a new snapshot' but it seems they don't work. The last commands after mounting the drive and making changes were:

sudo kmutil install --volume-root ~/livemount --update-all
sudo bless --folder ~/livemount/System/Library/CoreServices --bootefi --create-snapshot

Now I can't startup off that drive, it will try to boot, fail, reboot and then go automatically into Recovery. SIP is disabled btw.

Is there any way to fix this without reinstalling OS over it again (and undoing what I did deleting files)?

Reason to write to system: no other way to get rid of over 150 useless fonts I have to scroll through all the time in Adobe apps - FontExplorer Pro is unable to access these folders to disable the fonts and Apple's Fontbook manager is just completely useless for a designer working with a lot of documents and font library [/System/Library/Font/Supplemental/]

Thanks

Format and reinstall.
Don't install those fonts again.

 

[kkinto]

Format and reinstall.
Don't install those fonts again.

I wish! Apple installs them, not me.

I can boot again after reinstalling Moneterey over itself, no need for formatting. But of course all the frickin fonts are back!

 

[jcscol]

Font Menu Cleaner can help tidy up some of the Supplemental Fonts that you can't with Font Book, but unfortunately, not the others that are part of the System folder.

 

[kkinto]

Font Menu Cleaner can help tidy up some of the Supplemental Fonts that you can't with Font Book, but unfortunately, not the others that are part of the System folder.

Font Menu Cleaner looks like it might do the trick, unfortunately no trial. I need it to be compatible with FontExplorer Pro not Fontbook. I'm afraid Fontbook is like bringing a banana to a gunfight.

 

[StoneJack]

I wish! Apple installs them, not me.

I can boot again after reinstalling Moneterey over itself, no need for formatting. But of course all the frickin fonts are back!

just leave them. it is not that they are taking too much space.

 

[chabig]

First, you can't mess with the system volume or you'll break the seal and the machine won't boot.

Second, you don't have to delete fonts to remove them from the font menu. There is a little utility included with macOS call Font Book. Using that utility you can turn installed fonts on and off.

 

[kkinto]

First, you can't mess with the system volume or you'll break the seal and the machine won't boot.

Second, you don't have to delete fonts to remove them from the font menu. There is a little utility included with macOS call Font Book. Using that utility you can turn installed fonts on and off.

Thanks but honestly I don't think you read the issue here.
If fontbook was any use as a font manager I would use it, but its crappy limited and unsuitable software its made for folks who use pretty much only the fonts their mac OS comes with.
It can only turn fonts off for itself as Apple obviously has secret API's it doesn't allow others to use.

just leave them. it is not that they are taking too much space.

Again, you obviously don't do much work with fonts or use Adobe software. Every single time I have to scroll in a font menu beyond 'N' I have to scroll through a list of 100+ Noto fonts and then another 30+ 'STIX' fonts!

Anyway, you are not addressing my original question. I don't want to really talk about managing thousands fonts, I would like changes made to the locked system volume. If thats impossible, fine, then thats what I need to find out. If not, maybe someone has an answer to how to do it so it doesnt screw up the booting.

In Big Sur its possible to do what I did and the Mac still boots. Unfortunately the same process on Moneterey breaks it. This was my issue - can it be done in Monetrey?

 

[chabig]

So apparently Adobe doesn't honor that system settings for fonts turned on and off. That's on them I guess.

The answer to your big issue is that you cannot modify the system in Monterey without breaking it.

 

[StoneJack]

Thanks but honestly I don't think you read the issue here.
If fontbook was any use as a font manager I would use it, but its crappy limited and unsuitable software its made for folks who use pretty much only the fonts their mac OS comes with.
It can only turn fonts off for itself as Apple obviously has secret API's it doesn't allow others to use.


Again, you obviously don't do much work with fonts or use Adobe software. Every single time I have to scroll in a font menu beyond 'N' I have to scroll through a list of 100+ Noto fonts and then another 30+ 'STIX' fonts!
View attachment 1951131


Anyway, you are not addressing my original question. I don't want to really talk about managing thousands fonts, I would like changes made to the locked system volume. If thats impossible, fine, then thats what I need to find out. If not, maybe someone has an answer to how to do it so it doesnt screw up the booting.

In Big Sur its possible to do what I did and the Mac still boots. Unfortunately the same process on Moneterey breaks it. This was my issue - can it be done in Monetrey?

No I don't work with Adobe software, last few years. Before - yes, starting from Aldus Pagemaker before it became a part of Adobe.
As for fonts, I worked in computer desktop publishing and had my share of fonts

 

[Fishrrman]

Agree with chabig and others above.
You can't modify the System volume without a VERY high probability of "breaking it".

You're just gonna have to find "another way"...

 

[kkinto]

So apparently Adobe doesn't honor that system settings for fonts turned on and off. That's on them I guess.

The answer to your big issue is that you cannot modify the system in Monterey without breaking it.

You can't modify the System volume without a VERY high probability of "breaking it".
You're just gonna have to find "another way"...

OK then, I guess thats the answer. And while it may be Adobe's doing or "bug", in the last three or so years of encountering this nonsense they have not responded to one single complaint, 'bug report' or request for assistance. Not one. But honestly I don't think it's Adobe - my font manager (Fontexplorer Pro) also reports this and cannot access or deactivate the fonts, and Affinity Design software has the same issue. If an App is not using Apple's silly font picker dialog then its probably going to have this problem too.

Even if Fontbook did do the job (it doesn't) only about four of those Noto fonts appear in there - but even then, none of them can be turned off either!

 

[KALLT]

The font list you posted earlier is much longer than the number of fonts Font Book shows. Is Adobe perhaps also bundling Noto fonts itself?

But honestly I don't think it's Adobe - my font manager (Fontexplorer Pro) also reports this and cannot access or deactivate the fonts, and Affinity Design software has the same issue. If an App is not using Apple's silly font picker dialog then its probably going to have this problem too.

It is not just “Apple’s silly font picker dialog”. Apple provides extensive APIs for querying and using system fonts, for example, NSFontManager. There is nothing apparent stopping those developers from improving the user experience in this regard. For comparison: LibreOffice uses no Cocoa font pickers either and does not show disabled or downloadable fonts in its font pickers.

 

[bogdanw]

From https://eclecticlight.co/2020/06/25/big-surs-signed-system-volume-added-security-protection/
"Apple has extended the features of the csrutil command to support making changes to the SSV. In outline, you have to boot in Recovery Mode, use the command
csrutil authenticated-root disable
to turn cryptographic verification off, then mount the System volume and perform its modifications. To make that bootable again, you have to bless a new snapshot of the volume using a command such as
sudo bless --folder /[mountpath]/System/Library/CoreServices --bootefi --create-snapshot
You can then restart using the new snapshot as your System volume, and without SSV authentication."

I haven’t tested the method.
I mark the fonts I use most in Photoshop as favorites, then only display those.

 

[kkinto]

csrutil authenticated-root disable
sudo bless --folder /[mountpath]/System/Library/CoreServices --bootefi --create-snapshot
I mark the fonts I use most in Photoshop as favorites, then only display those.

Thanks bogdanw - those are exactly the commands I tried. It used to work in Big Sur and Catalina but seems Apple locked down even more now in Monterey!
I also started using the 'favorites' but unfortunately I work on many different projects for publishing every day and have to activate and use sometime hundreds of different fonts every day. Its just not a practical solution most of the time, the fonts are not my choice usually and most of the time they are unique to the specific documents.

 

[HDFan]

See also:

Help delete Font system

Hi bro @HDFan I want to delete some fonts for my language because they appear in the browser forcibly .. I used to delete them from the system in old versions I want to do it in Big Sur Is there a way to delete .. help please

forums.macrumors.com

 

[kkinto]

The font list you posted earlier is much longer than the number of fonts Font Book shows. Is Adobe perhaps also bundling Noto fonts itself?

It is not just “Apple’s silly font picker dialog”. Apple provides extensive APIs for querying and using system fonts, for example, NSFontManager. There is nothing apparent stopping those developers from improving the user experience in this regard. For comparison: LibreOffice uses no Cocoa font pickers either and does not show disabled or downloadable fonts in its font pickers.

They are there, its not Adobe bundling, just 'go' in Finder to - /System/Library/Fonts/Supplemental .... open and see for ya'self.

As for second suggestion, unfortunately not helpful at all. Don't use Libre Office as I sincerely doubt its any use for professional design and publishing work. And, ofcourse, if no one else is going to do it it would be nice to be able to improve my user experience myself as it has been on Mac since 1984 (pre-Monterey)!

Help delete Font system

Hi bro @HDFan I want to delete some fonts for my language because they appear in the browser forcibly .. I used to delete them from the system in old versions I want to do it in Big Sur Is there a way to delete .. help please

forums.macrumors.com

Thanks, unfortunately there is no solution there, but at least the OP understands and has the same problem!

 

[bogdanw]

It used to work in Big Sur and Catalina but seems Apple locked down even more now in Monterey!

Here’s how I deleted Hiragino fonts in a Monterey (12.1) virtual machine by using a bootable installer https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372
This might work from Recovery too, but unfortunately I can’t boot the virtual machine in Recovery to test it.
- rename Macintosh HD to 12M or something else that is simple (not necessary, but it’s easier to type)
1. boot using a bootable installer
- from Utilities – Terminal

csrutil disable
csrutil authenticated-root disable

2. reboot using a bootable installer
- from Utilities – Terminal

mount

to identify /dev/disk1s5 on /Volumes/12M

diskutil umount /dev/disk1s5

then

diskutil mount /dev/disk1s5 
cd /Volumes/12M/System/Library/Fonts
rm ヒ*.ttc
bless --folder /Volumes/12M/System/Library/CoreServices --bootefi --create-snapshot

Reboot into normal system, csrutil & authenticated-root must remain disabled.
If csrutil or authenticated-root are enabled, the fonts reappear.
The deleted fonts now show an option to Download in Font Book. As I used rm ヒ*.ttc, I missed the one named Hiragino Sans GB