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Carmakers are failing the privacy test. Owners have little or no control over data.

Nermal

Nermal

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Staff member
Dec 7, 2002
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I've seen a few versions of this article over the past couple of days but none of them seem to go into too much detail.

As far as I know, my car has no SIM. I also haven't installed the carmaker's app on my phone, but I do occasionally plug it in and use CarPlay. Does the CarPlay API allow the car to send its data when I do that, or is the carmaker's app required?

There's still the possibility that a bulk dump of data occurs at the dealership when the car gets its annual service. Mine's actually due next week, so I could ask then if I remember...
 
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0339327

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Jun 14, 2007
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I think that many modern cars, certainly Tesla, report back to the "mothership" things like speed, braking and driving habits. Even GPS data can be sent back.

That information should be privileged but it seems that it's not.
 
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J

jz0309

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Sep 25, 2018
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fatTribble said:
It is absolutely nuts that there are no laws around this. Am I missing something?
Thanks for raising awareness of this!
Click to expand...
Are there laws around ad tracking by Facebook? Or Google? No…

Having said that, we have some control over web tracking but are totally in the dark with our cars, and no communication whatsoever from the carmakers afaik.
While we get privacy notices re car loan data, nothing else, again afaik
 
J

jz0309

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Sep 25, 2018
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MacProFCP said:
I think that many modern cars, certainly Tesla, report back to the "mothership" things like speed, braking and driving habits. Even GPS data can be sent back.

That information should be privileged but it seems that it's not.
Click to expand...
Tesla does OTAs, so they need to connect, others are starting to offer that.
GM had onstar for how many years?
I get vehicle health status updates for our Hyundais, for over 5 years …

Not trying to argue, just it’s a quite old problem that needs attention
 
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fatTribble

fatTribble

macrumors 68000
Sep 21, 2018
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jz0309 said:
Are there laws around ad tracking by Facebook? Or Google? No…

Having said that, we have some control over web tracking but are totally in the dark with our cars, and no communication whatsoever from the carmakers afaik.
While we get privacy notices re car loan data, nothing else, again afaik
Click to expand...
Agreed. I’m mystified that our devices have turned into an us-against-them in terms of privacy. I understand defending against bad actors, but companies you do business with shouldn’t be allowed to harvest every scrap of data that’s left unprotected. (IMHO 😊)
 
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NEPOBABY

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Jan 10, 2023
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There's no question they don't give AF about your privacy and neither do data brokers. They will sell that data to whoever bids the highest even hit men and dictators.

Oligarchs around the world have had enough of citizens and their demands for fairness and transparency. Leaks like the Panama Papers scared them. In the pursuit of growth and to secure their wealth they need every kind of spyware possible to save themselves and protect the wealth they will hand to their spoilt brat nepobabies.

They are now putting everything in place to erode privacy and inject malware wherever possible. Including bribing politicians to break the security of phones, place back doors in messaging apps and so on. That's the only way to silence populations and stop people looking into their dirty business.
 
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maflynn

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
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MacProFCP said:
Crazy how careful we are with smartphones
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I'm gonna have to say that most smartphone users don't care that much about privacy - Not when they're using a product from a company who's stated goal is to collect and sell your usage, patterns and data. There's a reason why automakers are dropping Apple's Carplay and contracting with google to customize a car entertainment system - Google has a ton of experience in collecting user data.

1694174357221.png


I'm pretty happy that I have a 2021 truck and it should be with me for some time (knocks on wood), so I don't have to deal with this.
 
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dmr727

dmr727

macrumors G4
Dec 29, 2007
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I guess the problem is that when I buy a car from a dealer, I presume the manufacturer will pair my identity to it without any method to opt out. So simply not creating an account for the infotainment system won't work?

Maybe a market will form for the purchase of cars where no link will be forced between the purchaser and vehicle. Of course the DMV will have that information, but one nice thing about the government being in the technical dark ages is that they won't figure out how to sell our data until at least 2050. ;)

All of this would be a lot simpler if I weren't jonesing for an EV.
 
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jz0309

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Sep 25, 2018
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dmr727 said:
I guess the problem is that when I buy a car from a dealer, I presume the manufacturer will pair my identity to it without any method to opt out. So simply not creating an account for the infotainment system won't work?

Maybe a market will form for the purchase of cars where no link will be forced between the purchaser and vehicle. Of course the DMV will have that information, but one nice thing about the government being in the technical dark ages is that they won't figure out how to sell our data until at least 2050. ;)

All of this would be a lot simpler if I weren't jonesing for an EV.
Click to expand...
Given that more and more car manufacturers are moving to “services”, you can only manage that through accounts. If you want OTA, need an account…
I don’t mind so much to create accounts, just the secrecy as of today needs to change…
 
A

Apleeseed84

macrumors 6502a
Oct 22, 2020
902
644
Lol. My car has an app that can track the location and has remote start features, of course we have no privacy.

If people care about their privacy they shouldn’t give out their phone numbers and emails to retailers
 
chown33

chown33

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Staff member
Aug 9, 2009
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A sea of green
Nermal said:
Guess what I forgot about!
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If you'd asked the car itself to remind you, or even better, ask the service tech itself, then you wouldn't need to remember.

Of course, it might then refuse to open the pod bay car doors because it thinks you're too forgetful and will jeopardize the mission.
 
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