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Cheese-Eating vegetarians...
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There is vegan rennet available. I would think that one who doesn't eat meat for moral reasons would be a vegan, and not eat any "animal"-derived foods.
Of course there is.
I'm thinking most vegetarians don't seek out vegan-specific cheese, though, hence my question.
I'm not vegetarian, but I think it would depend on the type of vegetarian, as in, why they don't eat meat.
There seem to me to be people who primarily don't eat meat for health reasons, and people who do it for moral reasons as far as slaughtering/raising animals for food is concerned.
I'd imagine that the question of animal rennet would only matter to people who are morally opposed to eating meat, a good number of whom are already vegan, and wouldn't be eating the cheese anyway.
There seem to me to be people who primarily don't eat meat for health reasons, and people who do it for moral reasons as far as slaughtering/raising animals for food is concerned.
I'd imagine that the question of animal rennet would only matter to people who are morally opposed to eating meat, a good number of whom are already vegan, and wouldn't be eating the cheese anyway.
Yes I'm well aware of the renet in cheese and I eat it anyways. It doesn't really bother me because I've chosen my diet based on a combination of my own views and how convenient it is for my lifestyle.
Would I prefer renet free cheese? Yes, but am I willing to pay more and search high & low for it? No. Plus when I'm out in the bar having beer and we order nachos I'm not getting em without the cheese, it defeats the purpose!
My sarcastic answer when I'm asked why I eat eggs & dairy is that I'm against murder (meat) but I'm ok with rape (dairy) and abortion (eggs).
Would I prefer renet free cheese? Yes, but am I willing to pay more and search high & low for it? No. Plus when I'm out in the bar having beer and we order nachos I'm not getting em without the cheese, it defeats the purpose!
My sarcastic answer when I'm asked why I eat eggs & dairy is that I'm against murder (meat) but I'm ok with rape (dairy) and abortion (eggs).
When I eat cheese, if it specifically says 'rennet' I avoid it.
There are some enzymes that come from plantstuffs, so if it just generically says "enzymes", then I'll go ahead. Benefit of the doubt and all.
There are some necessary evils that are animal-derived. Vaccines are developed on chicken eggs, IIRC (my dad said somethin' about that). Some other medical treatments are tested with lab mice, dogs, chimps, pigs... Heck, human pregnancy tests of yesteryear required a female rabbit to be dissected.
I feel I'm a "good enough" vegetarian to suit me. I haven't had a piece of meat for ~4 or 5 years, I've only accidentally had meat-broth or that pesky hidden Gelatin since then. I don't own a pair of leather shoes, a leather belt, or a misguided pair of leather pants. Refusing medical treatment because it was developed with animal input, it's not for me. I rather enjoy living.
There are some enzymes that come from plantstuffs, so if it just generically says "enzymes", then I'll go ahead. Benefit of the doubt and all.
There are some necessary evils that are animal-derived. Vaccines are developed on chicken eggs, IIRC (my dad said somethin' about that). Some other medical treatments are tested with lab mice, dogs, chimps, pigs... Heck, human pregnancy tests of yesteryear required a female rabbit to be dissected.
I feel I'm a "good enough" vegetarian to suit me. I haven't had a piece of meat for ~4 or 5 years, I've only accidentally had meat-broth or that pesky hidden Gelatin since then. I don't own a pair of leather shoes, a leather belt, or a misguided pair of leather pants. Refusing medical treatment because it was developed with animal input, it's not for me. I rather enjoy living.
Vegetarians aren't against meat-derived products. Only actual meat. As soon as you start restricting meat-derived products, I think you're starting to get into vegan territory.
In my opinion, they aren't killing animals specifically for this meat-derived product, so I don't feel bad about it. If they were killing cows specifically to take out their stomachs and make cheese and then throw away the rest, then I think there's some problems. I'm not sure, is this the case?
Daniel.
In my opinion, they aren't killing animals specifically for this meat-derived product, so I don't feel bad about it. If they were killing cows specifically to take out their stomachs and make cheese and then throw away the rest, then I think there's some problems. I'm not sure, is this the case?
Daniel.
As far as I understand, rennet's a byproduct of the veal industry. Baby cows. With big baby cow eyes.
But ya, the rest of the cow gets used. Cow's killed for the meat, not just the sweet, sweet enzymes hiding in the stomach lining.
But it's a baby cow!
I'm not a vegetarian, I just don't eat meat. I do consume dairy, stuff with eggs in it, etc. I just don't like the meat. I could probably have fowl, and eat some fish, but I couldn't have beef if I wanted to (though I don't) nor do I like pig.
I do wear leather though. Lots and lots of leather.
I do consume dairy, stuff with eggs in it, etc. I just don't like the meat. I could probably have fowl, and eat some fish, but I couldn't have beef if I wanted to (though I don't) nor do I like pig.I do wear leather though. Lots and lots of leather.
There is a distinct problem when you try to shoehorn vegetarians into a single definition because a lot of us do it for different reasons. Personally I do it so as to reduce the pain and suffering my personal consumption of animal derived products causes. This means I don't eat meat at all but am still happy to eat the occasional rennet-derived cheese, wear leather shoes, eat eggs, and drink milk etc. I will avoid and substitute a non-animal derived product where possible - e.g. soy milk, recombinant rennet, canvas shoes etc.
A lot of people in this thread seem to be lacto-ovo vegetarian - which by definition is vegetarian which includes dairy and eggs. This is by far the largest proportion of vegetarians.....
A lot of people in this thread seem to be lacto-ovo vegetarian - which by definition is vegetarian which includes dairy and eggs. This is by far the largest proportion of vegetarians.....
You met a vegan Abstract (and a strict one at that!). Vegan's don't consume (eat or use) any animal derived products (unless incidental and unavoidable).
I suppose it depends on your reasons for being veggie in the first place. My reason is down to a family history of strokes, heart attacks and high cholesterol. So although I tend to keep the dairy intake down, I'm not overly fussed if the cheese I eat has got rennet in it. When you think what milk is anyway, you'd cut dairy out completely if you felt that badly about it.
All the cheese I have bought in the UK for as long as I can remember has "Suitable for Vegetarians" on it
She wasn't the skinniest girl.
I don't mind vegetarians, and yes, I know I met a vegan yesterday rather than a typical veggy. I may try vegetarianism a go after I graduate. I'd cut out eggs and milk as well, which is further than many veggies will go. However, if yoghurt finds its way into my bowl, then so be it. Same with milk or eggs used in cake.
A friend of mine (vegetarian) has actually inspired me to eat a lot of things I normally might not have considered. However, she isn't all pushy or condescending about it. It's a preference and not some elitist thing in her instance and that is why it's easier to digest. Vegans that get all moralistic about it just make me nauseous.She wasn't the skinniest girl.
I don't mind vegetarians, and yes, I know I met a vegan yesterday rather than a typical veggy. I may try vegetarianism a go after I graduate. I'd cut out eggs and milk as well, which is further than many veggies will go. However, if yoghurt finds its way into my bowl, then so be it. Same with milk or eggs used in cake.
Oi!
I've been a veggie for 20+ years and a vegan for 5 of those years! I choose not to eat meat, fish, etc for my own reasons. I consider myself a 'strict' veggie in the sense that I do check food labels for vegetarian logos, only buy veggie cheese from the supermarket, always check if something might contain meat stock, fish sauce, Worcestershire sauce, gelatin, etc. I'm a lacto-ovo veggie these days so I do eat eggs and dairy produce, whereas obviously as a vegan I didn't and even in my pre-vegan days I didn't really eat eggs. The only time I might consume cheese containing animal rennet would be if I'm in a restaurant where obviously I have no control over the ingredients being used; I tend to trust most places serving "vegetarian" dishes. The one cheese I find difficult to find a good alternative for is Parmesan - authentic Parmigiano Reggiano would [probably] be made with a non-vegetable rennet; you just never quite know exactly what they're serving you in a restaurant and I have to admit I'm not quite as strict on that front as I used to be. As I said though, I'm a veggie for my own reasons (basically 'cause I feel like it) not particularly for animal welfare reasons or anything. Grano Padano is fairly similar to parmesan and it is possible to find a veggie version of that in the supermarket, but it's not quite the same thing, meh. Most cheeses in UK supermarkets these days are labelled pretty clearly with a 'V' logo; it's certainly loads easier to source stuff now than it was when I first started out.
OK so what's next? The great isinglass debate?
Most vegans are obnoxious? That's incredibly insulting. I'm not a vegan myself, but I can't help but admire people who put the welfare of animals ahead of their own needs. There may be some flaws to the vegan ideology, but it's a worthwhile exercise in empathy if nothing else.
Oh, and the vegans that I know are generally far healthier than my meat-eating friends; certainly, they're less likely to die from heart disease or bowel cancer, among other things.
Is it offensive? Am I bovvered? Because the vegans I've been around never once considered that they're attitudes are offensive to people who aren't just like they are. I eat my way, they can eat theirs. I only learned to spurn their choices after hearing how "disgusting" and "wrong" and "cruel" etc etc etc my ice cream was.
BTW, one of those vegans I was referring to? Ended up in a hospital for weeks with malnutrition.
Suppose I just don't like anything overly preachy over a matter of opinion.
yeah but I bet even in your vegan days you didn't behave like an obnoxious tit about it. your veggieness isn't all "in your face" to everyone else who isn't... if that makes sense.Oi!
<veggie stuff>
OK so what's next? The great isinglass debate?
(you're the vegetarian friend I was referring to, by the way. I still crave that chickpea dish at the scarlet dot, which I never would have tried otherwise.
) I had to look up isinglass
Couldn't I say something similar about vegetables, though? They grow and grow, and then you chop them down or pull them out of wherever they were growing. Hardly seems fair to me. 
Fully agree. I'm off to form the Vegetable Liberation Front.Couldn't I say something similar about vegetables, though? They grow and grow, and then you chop them down or pull them out of wherever they were growing. Hardly seems fair to me.
"Run little veggies!!! Run for your lives!!! You're free!! .....oh, sod you then
"Well not too "in your face", no, though I do admit to making a comment recently about a 'veggie' using Lea & Perrin's Worcestershire sauce
(For those who don't realise, traditional worcestershire sauce is derived from anchovies)I did email Tesco a few years back when I noticed "worcestershire sauce" in the ingredients listing of a dish that had been labelled "Suitable for Vegetarians", I also contacted the Vegetarian Society about it (yes that's how anal I can be
)... they wrote back and advised me that most "worcestershire sauce" used in catering is actually vegetarian because it's cheaper than the proper anchovy crap. Tesco confirmed this and promptly changed their food labelling to "vegetarian worcestershire sauce" But Lea & Perrin's certainly isn't veggie!Awww(you're the vegetarian friend I was referring to, by the way. I still crave that chickpea dish at the scarlet dot, which I never would have tried otherwise.
ok I'll let you off that "obnoxious" comment then
dcv I suppose the difference is, when you saw me order chicken curry you didn't wince or say how evil or gross it is. It's all in how you market it I suppose.
I got rubbed the wrong way by several vegans it seems. (who also had leather boots, if I recall correctly.)
Just one of those things, if done in a preachy way it gets peoples backs up.
I got rubbed the wrong way by several vegans it seems. (who also had leather boots, if I recall correctly.)
Just one of those things, if done in a preachy way it gets peoples backs up.
I have a feeling you were being facetious Abstract but I'll answer anywayCouldn't I say something similar about vegetables, though? They grow and grow, and then you chop them down or pull them out of wherever they were growing. Hardly seems fair to me.
. For everyone the answer is going to be slightly different again but for me personally to reiterate; I live in a society where eating meat is completely unnecessary for me to fulfil my daily dietary requirements (+ I don't miss it in my diet). Therefore I find the pain and suffering (incidental or otherwise) involved in the rearing of animals for slaughter irreconcilable for my own consuption. Pain and suffering are attributes of a CNS and complex behaviour - a characteristic of animals and generally completely absent in plants. On the scale of exploitation and suffering plants come lowly on the list.