Clean Install of 10.4

[paddy]

Hi,

just some questions about a clean install. I've installed 10.3 and 4 since ive had my iMac (shipped with 10.1). Would I save much memory by doing a clean install with Tiger? I've currently only got a 40gb hd. Also can MS Office be burned to cd and re-installed from that disc? I've since sold the original Office cds so re-installing it from them isnt an option.

Thanks in advance,
Paddy

 

[AlBDamned]

You don't say how much of your HDD you're actually using, nor what you've got on it, but it's unlikely installing Tiger fresh would save you a massive amount. Unless there's something majorly wrong with your system it seems like overkill to reinstall. There's other things you could do to free up space.

In terms of MS Office, if you backed up that applications files, then yes, it should be ok once you transfer it back. However, if you no longer have the discs, then technically that's illegal software and:

a) you should no longer be using it; and

b) you can't talk about it using it on this board.

 

[calebjohnston]

Yeah, I was going to say that MS Office would then technically be illegal.. but it just seems like a grey area situation. The same files, installed legally when in posession of the disc. The files aren't being copied over, just moved.

However, I'm sure it is technically illegal. But doable.

 

[AlBDamned]

Yeah, I was going to say that MS Office would then technically be illegal.. but it just seems like a grey area situation. The same files, installed legally when in posession of the disc. The files aren't being copied over, just moved.

However, I'm sure it is technically illegal. But doable.

Yeah it's doable, but I think within licenses, it says something along the lines of "if you sell the discs for use on a new computer, the software must be taken off the old computer".

Anyway, on the point of a fresh install that we can talk about...

 

[paddy]

I was thinking of getting iWork anyway . Going off topic, is that a good alternative to Office? I was also looking into openoffice. Seems fairly good.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Clean installs are a waste of time, unless you have problems with your system that you can't fix any other way. For most of us, this will never happen. Do yourself a favor, and don't bother.

As for iWork vs. Office, this is a very frequently raised topic. You might want to search the boards and read the many threads on this subject, rather than starting another.

 

[mklos]

Don't listen to IJ Reilly...

Clean installs are NOT a waste of time and some times DOES need to be done. It cleans out all the crap that gets built up in your HD that you don't even know is there. I've seen amazing results in doing a clean install vs a archive and install with the computers I've serviced. Now its NOT always necessary yes, but its not a waste of time either. Hell with todays Macs, you can completely redo your Mac in roughly an hour.

If you make regular backups, which you should be anyways, then backing up shouldn't be an issue. If you need to back up, just drag your home folder over to an external source, or to DVD if it will fit on a DVD and you'll have everything except your apps.

 

[IJ Reilly]

What sort of "crap" buildings up on your hard drive, and what problem does it cause? Please be specific. If you're going to credibly say "don't listen" to someone who recommends against prophylactic clean installs, then you will need to describe a thing that cannot be fixed by any other, less drastic means.

I've been asking this question of the clean install promoters on these boards literally for years now, and I have yet to hear a single sensible answer. So by all means, please -- tell me something I haven't already heard.

 

[mad jew]

A clean install can help many problems but it's not necessarily, the easiest, quickest, most efficient, or best option. I generally only try to recommend a clean install if the problem is system-wide, software-based, and the usual tricks haven't worked. There are many faster and more efficient techniques to use before a reinstall.

Having said that, I like to do a fresh install when I upgrade the OS (Panther to Tiger, or whatever). There's something comforting about a clean start. I did an upgrade on my iBook and ran with that for a few weeks when Tiger first came out. It was okay but there were a few small idiosyncrasies (mainly Spotlight-based). I then did a clean install and the idiosyncrasies disappeared. Almost all of those idiosyncrasies could have been fixed without resorting to a clean install but I reckon that in my case, the reformat was quicker. Plus, I have another Mac and excellent back ups so it wasn't very difficult.

In short, I agree with IJ Reilly that most issues don't constitute a clean install. However, it shouldn't always be automatically placed at the back of the queue and sometimes it can be the easy option.

 

[dogbone]

You could free up at least a gig with 'monolingual' and another gig by trashing all your printer drivers (Mac/Library/Printers and reinstalling the lastest driver for the printer you have, if you have one. Download 'omnidisksweeper' as well, you might find, as I did that there was a gig of duplicated apple loops.

 

[IJ Reilly]

A clean install can help many problems but it's not necessarily, the easiest, quickest, most efficient, or best option. I generally only try to recommend a clean install if the problem is system-wide, software-based, and the usual tricks haven't worked. There are many faster and more efficient techniques to use before a reinstall.

Having said that, I like to do a fresh install when I upgrade the OS (Panther to Tiger, or whatever). There's something comforting about a clean start. I did an upgrade on my iBook and ran with that for a few weeks when Tiger first came out. It was okay but there were a few small idiosyncrasies (mainly Spotlight-based). I then did a clean install and the idiosyncrasies disappeared. Almost all of those idiosyncrasies could have been fixed without resorting to a clean install but I reckon that in my case, the reformat was quicker. Plus, I have another Mac and excellent back ups so it wasn't very difficult.

In short, I agree with IJ Reilly that most issues don't constitute a clean install. However, it shouldn't always be automatically placed at the back of the queue and sometimes it can be the easy option.

Can't argue with this reasoning. The problem is, clean installs are often treated as the first rather than the last resort, and people recommend them far too often, even when they have no idea what the problem is, or whether the clean install is likely to cure it (such as kernel panics, nearly always caused by hardware problems). I'd also add that if a reinstallation of OSX is called for (because nothing else works), the archive & install option is one to consider before the clean install. I hear too many stories about people losing this or that in clean installs -- and mainly in clean installs they almost certainly did not have to do. At least archive & install gets around that problem by preserving your user directories.

 

[berg]

Interesting discussion ....

For clarities sake ... the term "clean install" is a holdover from OS9 days and really is more related to an archive and install in OSX .. both give you a new system folder ...

The new description for completely starting over with a fresh disk is an "erase and install" ...

I personally believe that for troubleshooting ... an erase and install is almost never necessary and can be quite problematic for the average user.

An archive and install when needed will solve 99.9% of issues ...with a lot less headache ...

I heartily recommend Archive and Install when upgrading such as going from Panther to Tiger ... etc ....

But that's just me ....

 

[killmoms]

I will gladly admit that my addiction to Erase & Install with a major OS revision is a somewhat irrational holdover from my Windows days. Archive & Install would probably work just fine for me.

That said, I still do Erase & Install. Why? Well, for one, it just feels good. I like the idea of a fresh OS revision on a fresh, clean, empty hard drive. For another, it gives me a chance to re-evaluate what I need stored on my machine, mostly in terms of apps. I back up all my documents and such regularly, so an Erase & Install gives me the chance to only re-install the applications I'm using constantly. It also clears out my preferences, so while I have to go back and set some things again, it's a nice way to start on a new OS revision. Doing an Erase & Install also helps me eliminate the "is it some old component messing stuff up" if I run into a problem.

When Leopard comes out early next year (assuming I don't have the cash to buy a new MacBook Pro to replace good ol' Yaseko), I'll do an Erase & Install. And even though IJ Reilly will sputter and huff at me, I'll feel really damn good doing it.

 

[aquajet]

Yeah, I was going to say that MS Office would then technically be illegal.. but it just seems like a grey area situation.

There's no grey area. It's been 100% illegal since the original software disks were sold.

I've installed 10.3 and 4 since ive had my iMac (shipped with 10.1). Would I save much memory by doing a clean install with Tiger?

Not likely, unless you do a customized installation without unneeded localization files and printer drivers. But you can remove these files without resorting to an erase and install. Check this out for more tips.

I removed all localization files from my system other than english and spanish. That managed to reclaim nearly a gigabyte of space on my hard drive.

 

[IJ Reilly]

I will gladly admit that my addiction to Erase & Install with a major OS revision is a somewhat irrational holdover from my Windows days. Archive & Install would probably work just fine for me.

That said, I still do Erase & Install. Why? Well, for one, it just feels good. I like the idea of a fresh OS revision on a fresh, clean, empty hard drive. For another, it gives me a chance to re-evaluate what I need stored on my machine, mostly in terms of apps. I back up all my documents and such regularly, so an Erase & Install gives me the chance to only re-install the applications I'm using constantly. It also clears out my preferences, so while I have to go back and set some things again, it's a nice way to start on a new OS revision. Doing an Erase & Install also helps me eliminate the "is it some old component messing stuff up" if I run into a problem.

When Leopard comes out early next year (assuming I don't have the cash to buy a new MacBook Pro to replace good ol' Yaseko), I'll do an Erase & Install. And even though IJ Reilly will sputter and huff at me, I'll feel really damn good doing it.

No, no I won't... so long as you admit that you're doing it just to make yourself, not your Mac, feel better.

I've been going the straight upgrade route on all of my Macs since day one. On my primary desktop Mac, this means from OS9 all the way to 10.4.5 with not a single reinstallation. Even when I upgraded my hard drive, I cloned the old one to the new one and kept going. I guess I just don't get the value of deliberately destroying of a workspace carefully constructed over years of computer usage. It sure wouldn't make me feel better, and my Mac doesn't seem to need an enema either.

 

[GimmeSlack12]

I think a clean install is a waste of time, and pretty unneccesary. I think you're MS Office is technically illegal, but I would just stop talking about it here and do whatever you feel is right.

And I think that iWorks and OpenOffice are a poor, but cost efficient alternative to Office. I worked with OpenOffice for about 4 months, and once I got MS Office I realized that I was fooling myself. iWork just doesn't seem complete yet.