Club 14

[lepidotós]

I've been... advised to start up a 14" club. so I suppose I will. You know the deal, 14" PowerBooks and iBooks. No G requirement this time, because my intimate knowledge kinda just stops entering into Old World territory so if there are any pre-G3 14" PowerBooks, feel free to share yours. I would let 14.1" Hackintosh laptops live here, but this is the PowerPC forum... not that I'd tell on you if you had them in frame while taking a picture of a PowerBook or iBook. 15" PowerBook G4s go here.

Here you'll find two of my three 14" Apple laptops -- the third one being stored away, but otherwise identical to the iBook G4 besides that it's a G3 running 9.2.2. The PowerBook G3 is running DP2 right now, and I've been trying and failing to install 10.2 Jaguar onto it, I tried replacing the RAM which didn't work, so I'm pretty sure it's either the CD drive or the disk itself, since there's a suspicious dark mark on it. The iBook G4, what I'm writing this on right now, only has 10.5. It's a pretty good workhorse, I have to say, and even though the Hi-Res to the right is faster, I think I'll still keep the iBook handy because it's smaller and the fact that it's plastic makes it a little more durable.
​

 

[B S Magnet]

::clears_throat::

EVERYBODY GETS A CLUB HERE AT MACRUMORS FORUMS.

(except 14-inch MacBook Pro users… seven computer generations of shame… SHHAAAAAAMMEE… or something)

 

[Amethyst1]

I would let 14.1" Hackintosh laptops live here,

Sorry to spoil the fun, but I wouldn't. This should™ be about genuine Macs

 

[lepidotós]

I'm guessing this is what was meant by "double tap" on the Lubuntu thread, and I can definitely confirm it works with iBooks. Just tapping twice or with two fingers without clicking the mouse button doesn't work even on the DLSD because I'm not thorough and didn't check the trackpad section.​

 

[lepidotós]

Here's something possibly pertinent I've found out recently: some G3 Lombards aren't compatible with OS X. The Rev. 2.2 750Ls some of them use are faulty and will just crash -- though other OSes like OpenBSD, Linux, and the Mac OS work just fine in my experience. Just Mac OS X.

Ask me how I know.
Does anyone want me to do any testing to see how this fault affects other software?​

 

[lepidotós]

Been really appreciating the 14" iBooks all over again, after a period of kinda sidelining them for the Hi-Res. My iBook G4 is gonna see a lot more action in the coming days, that's for sure. It still is really nice to sit on one leg, and as a machine that runs Leopard, is just as compatible.
In person, it kinda looks like it could use an LED modding, the backlight is very much uneven. And I'll definitely someday replace the panel with a 1400x1050 one, or at least a 1280x960 one, if I can find one at a good price.​

 

[Amethyst1]

And I'll definitely someday replace the panel with […] at least a 1280x960 one, […]

These don’t exist AFAIK.

 

[Amethyst1]

Addendum: ThinkPads 770X and 770Z were available with a 13.7" 1280×1024 panel.

 

[Project Alice]

Here's something possibly pertinent I've found out recently: some G3 Lombards aren't compatible with OS X. The Rev. 2.2 750Ls some of them use are faulty and will just crash -- though other OSes like OpenBSD, Linux, and the Mac OS work just fine in my experience. Just Mac OS X.
View attachment 1976062
Ask me how I know.
Does anyone want me to do any testing to see how this fault affects other software?​

What fault exactly is it and how did you discover it?
Didn’t Lombard’s need a firmware update for OS X?

 

[lepidotós]

I'm not aware of any firmware updates available for it. I just stumbled upon it on the official Apple forums that certain runs of 750Ls have faults that make them unable to boot X with the top slot populated, and that mine happens to be one of them. I later saw other people also saying the same and I've been trying and failing to get Jaguar installed for months, so it lines up with what I've experienced.​

 

[Amethyst1]

I just stumbled upon it on the official Apple forums that certain runs of 750Ls have faults that make them unable to boot X with the top slot populated […]

So if you only populate the bottom RAM slot it works? That being said, my 400 MHz Lombard was fine with the full 512 MB.

 

[rampancy]

Former member of Club 14" here. I spent a lot of my undergrad lugging my 14" 700 Mhz iBook to campus and back, then lugged it all the way out east to grad school where for the second time it succumbed to the dreaded BGA GPU failure.

I have mixed feelings about the white iBooks. When they worked, they worked exceptionally well, and could handle just about any abuse one could reasonably throw at them. But far and away, they rank right up there with Compaq and HP laptops as being some of the worst computers to take apart and repair/clean. And if it weren't for the crippling BGA failures, they'd be excellent OS 9/10.4 machines even now.

It's too bad that there isn't even a way to sustainably make them viable machines, like with the MacBook Pro 3,x/4,x series.

 

[Amethyst1]

And if it weren't for the crippling BGA failures,

Were the ones that did not have the Radeon 7500 equally prone to GPU failure?

 

[lepidotós]

@Amethyst1 Yeah, only on specifically the 2.2 0x00088202 run of 750Ls, many Lombards work fine. And yes, the max you can have is 256, though I surely wish it was 512 in each.
I should probably upload or link to the checker tool, but I'm away at the moment so it'll have to be a day or so.

And no, I haven't heard of many non-32MB 7500-equipped G3s having GPU failures.

@rampancy Personally, after nearly a year of regular use including a period going through Arizona and another where I had to keep it in an upright triangle for thermals waiting for gcc to install, my 900MHz G3 (the one everyone says has the video issues) still works perfectly fine with no video issues. Actually, my G4 has them, though that's due to a loose video cable from shipping I still haven't bothered fixing because that would involve opening up an iBook G4, and I'm waiting on having an SSD in my hand for that.​

 

[Project Alice]

Were the ones that did not have the Radeon 7500 equally prone to GPU failure?

As far as I’m aware only the Radeon 7500 models were prone to GPU failure. The Rage 128 models are all fine. I’m going on about 13-14 years since I got my 500Mhz which has definitely seen better days albeit fully functional.
It’s also pretty easy to take apart due to 15 year old me removing and loosing a lot of the parts at one point…

 

[weckart]

Were the ones that did not have the Radeon 7500 equally prone to GPU failure?

I think they were. I have the 14" 700MHz, which has a 16MB Mobility Radeon inside - the last before the 7500. That one works for a while and after the machine has warmed up gets glitchy and sometimes freezes. I am fairly sure that I did read somewhere that the 700-900MHz G3 models were prone to solder cracking issues. I suppose at that speed they generate just about enough heat for warming up and cooling down heat cycles to work their magic on the logic board components.

 

[rampancy]

Were the ones that did not have the Radeon 7500 equally prone to GPU failure?

Back when I was obsessing over this, I remember reading on MacFixIt (now defunct) an extensive table that someone had compiled of user-submitted data on white iBook failures. The machines that had the highest failure rate (I think it was something like ~15-20%) were the 600-700 Mhz models with the Radeon Mobility, with the Radeon 7500 models a close second. The 500-600 Mhz Rage 128 machines and the G4 iBooks suffered from these problems too, but their failure rate was much lower. The 1.33 and 1.42 Ghz iBook G4s were supposedly the least prone to failure; pity that the G4 iBooks had their own problems with faulty solder joints on their vreg. chips.

Of course, IBM had to join in on the fun too; pretty much all of their ThinkPad T4x line (among many others) had this problem as well, with folks talking about baking their motherboards in the oven, using heatguns, and even building their own DIY BGA reworking station. It's a shame because like the G3 iBook, the ThinkPad T42 and T43 are otherwise awesome retro computing machines, especially the ones with the gorgeous 1400x1050 display.

I think they were. I have the 14" 700MHz, which has a 16MB Mobility Radeon inside - the last before the 7500. That one works for a while and after the machine has warmed up gets glitchy and sometimes freezes. I am fairly sure that I did read somewhere that the 700-900MHz G3 models were prone to solder cracking issues. I suppose at that speed they generate just about enough heat for warming up and cooling down heat cycles to work their magic on the logic board components.

From what I recall reading, Apple apparently switched to lead-free soldering during the early 2000s, but what wasn't expected was how it would lead to solder joints that would weaken over time due to prolonged heating/thermal cycling. And since it was an industry-wide trend, a lot of folks with IBM ThinkPads or Dell Inspirons shared the same headaches with G3/G4 iBook owners too.

 

[LightBulbFun]

I'm not aware of any firmware updates available for it. I just stumbled upon it on the official Apple forums that certain runs of 750Ls have faults that make them unable to boot X with the top slot populated, and that mine happens to be one of them. I later saw other people also saying the same and I've been trying and failing to get Jaguar installed for months, so it lines up with what I've experienced.​

ok im sorry but im going to call bollocks to the whole PPC750L thing LOL

I have seen OS X boot just fine on many Rev 2.2 PPC750Ls

and the issue of OS X only booting if only 1 RAM slot is populated is clearly a memory, memory controller or machine architectural problem

since the CPU in a PPC machine has nothing to do with how RAM is handled, all that is down to the Memory controller and system firmware


and it is well known that MPC106 based machine which the Lombard is one of, are very picky about their RAM and furthermore that OS X itself is more sensitive to dodgy RAM setups then Mac OS 9 etc are


so Im pretty sure the issue your having here is a Memory controller or RAM issue, id swap in some proper 256MB Low density RAM sticks and check again

if you have a post somewhere detailing your issues booting Jaguar on yours id be more then happy to give it a look and see if I can help you get it booting

 

[weckart]

From what I recall reading, Apple apparently switched to lead-free soldering during the early 2000s, but what wasn't expected was how it would lead to solder joints that would weaken over time due to prolonged heating/thermal cycling. And since it was an industry-wide trend, a lot of folks with IBM ThinkPads or Dell Inspirons shared the same headaches with G3/G4 iBook owners too.

Yes. This was my recollection - RoHSgate and the only quick fix was to shim that gpu. There must be a fair few threads on it deep in the bowels of this forum.