cMP 5,1 + GPU

[pvdbg]

I am looking to build a cMP 5,1 with dual x5690 for CAD/rendering but being not super technical and having read so much I am now going in circles and not 100% what is compatible with a 5,1. I did read the stickied build thread but still not sure and I would appreciate any advice if I am overlooking something.

Use:
-Archviz

Programs:
-Blender (CPU and GPU rendering possible)
-AutoCAD
-UE4
-Adobe Suite
-Revit(possibly but I know I need to run with bootcamp)

Build:
cMP 5,1
dual x5690
64mb RAM
4TB HDD
500GB SSD
4k monitor
GPU ? (max +/-€600)

OS:
Yosemite though might be able to upgrade to El Capitan (I had a lot of compatibility problems with El Capitan when released so stayed with Yosemite)


The main question is the GPU. For the GPU speed is not the ultimate priority, Vram is more important so the render doesn't crash. I was looking at wx7100 for my budget however this does not seem to be compatible? It seemed ideal with OpenGL drivers and single slot if I wanted to add a second later and still have PCI slots for usb3.0 and ssd.

Also I still don't understand what it means to the user if there is no boot screen? Is this an issue if you need to boot into windows? I am hoping to avoid busing windows but it might be needed.

I hope this is enough information but I will provide more if needed.
[doublepost=1521390932][/doublepost]I should also add I am running all of the above programs (except ue4 and revit) on a 2,5ghz mid 2012 mac pro with 16GB RAM. And the only things I find slow are render times, everything else works just fine. Hopefully this gives and idea of my performance expectations

Thanks

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

Also I still don't understand what it means to the user if there is no boot screen? Is this an issue if you need to boot into windows? I am hoping to avoid busing windows but it might be needed.

The lack of boot screens means you won't get anything to show on your display until further into the boot process, so you can't see what you are doing should you need to boot to an alternate drive. This can usually be avoided when dual-booting with Windows by using "Target Disk" option in MacOS, and then use the "Boot to OSX" in the taskbar tray in Windows. The lack of boot screens is mainly critical if you encrypt your disk, as you need to login at boot. If you don't do that, then you should be fine. Just keep your old graphics card safely stored away, and if you ever have problems starting your Mac, you'll just need to put that card back in so you can troubleshoot with proper boot screens.

 

[pvdbg]

Thanks for explaining that clearly. I actually won't have an original graphics card but I guess I'll need to find one somewhere. Is the original Radeon HD 5770 the only one that will work?

 

[bsbeamer]

Do you NEED boot screens?

Some of your applications can benefit from CUDA, if it's installed (works with NVIDIA cards).

If you 100% need boot screens, authentic options are a little limited. You can find a flashed card for 9XX and 10XX series, but the latest "authentic" NVIDIA card is the EVGA GTX 680 for Mac. It is no longer being made. You'll have to find from resellers, but be warned that many are not authentic versions being sold...

With your 4K requirement, I'd recommend to upgrade to High Sierra and get an NVIDIA 10XX series card. If you're not on the latest OS, your options with the newest (more widely available) cards MAY be limited. Unsure 100% where the NVIDIA web drivers for older OS versions stand and which series stops with where. The EVGA GTX 680 for Mac supported 10.8.3+ at release:
https://www.evga.com/products/specs/gpu.aspx?pn=da5dc70b-d8b1-4f97-8dd9-1f71e3fa1308

Stock NVIDIA GPUs work fine with the NVIDIA web drivers. Currently using an NVIDIA GTX 1080 Founders Edition (FE) and it's great with MacPro5,1. It's powered via dual mini 6-pin to 8-pin cables, which means you will not need a separate power supply (just a cheap cable). It's an easy upgrade.

Other cards are compatible, but the Founders Edition cards are directly made by NVIDIA and are most supported by the NVIDIA web drivers:
1080 FE: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/products/10series/geforce-gtx-1080/
1060 FE: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/products/10series/geforce-gtx-1060/

 

[pvdbg]

Thanks for the breakdown.

I'm wasn't really sure if I needed boot screens haha I never knew about them until I started digging further into this. From what the previous poster stated it doesn't sound like I need it. But just so I have this correct, I do not need a flashed card if I do not need boot screens?

Yes Blender with Cycles works benefits from CUDA but I'm looking to switch over to Radeon Pro Render I think. And the AMD cards are typically a bit cheaper to the equivalent NVIDIA.

Also I just double checked and my autoCAD cannot run on Sierra so that limits me to El Capitan.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

You shouldn't need a flashed card at all then. It wouldn't be a bad idea to grab an Apple card eventually just in case you need to troubleshoot. The GT120 is a cheap and easy card to work with. As for what card, maybe look at what your software recommends and go from there.

 

[bsbeamer]

10.11.6 15G19009 is the latest version of El Cap I'm aware of with security updates.

NVIDIA driver would be 346.03.15f12:
http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/130479/en-us

According to the supported products list, the GTX 680 is supported with this NVIDIA web driver:
GeForce GTX 680
GeForce GTX 285
GeForce GT 120
GeForce 8800 GT
Quadro K5000 for Mac, Quadro 4000 for Mac
Quadro FX 4800, Quadro FX 5600

346.03.15f12 direct link:
https://images.nvidia.com/mac/pkg/346/WebDriver-346.03.15f12.pkg

Your 4K requirement may be the most limiting factor with your GPU selection. Knocking down to 2560x1600 (or less) would expand the possibilities. You likely could get 4K working with many of these cards with SwitchResX, but unsure how stable it would be for your needs or if you NEED 60hz vs 30hz. Your connection to monitor would also play a factor (DisplayPort vs HDMI).

What Adobe software are you using? What versions?

 

[orph]

i just want to add i use a GTX770 (msi) 4GB and that works fine on the native osx display driver just like the 680 (but no boot screen), apart from no boot display it works as a slightly faster 680 10/20% i gess faster with the factory OC

but also looks like the wx7100 will work with some mods
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ngle-slot-card-work-on-mac-pro.2025190/page-2
the WX 5100 is confirmed working on the 3rd page of that topic (at the time it was posted) in osx 10.12

 

[MarkC426]

Another note, if you upgrade to Sierra/High Sierra, your mac will need a firmware update which needs a 'mac' gpu to do.

 

[ActionableMango]

Thanks for explaining that clearly. I actually won't have an original graphics card but I guess I'll need to find one somewhere. Is the original Radeon HD 5770 the only one that will work?

The 5770 will not do 4K at 60Hz. The minimum you'll need is a GTX 680. The 680 does not support 4K boot screens, so although you can easily flash it yourself for boot screens, there wouldn't be any point unless you had a second monitor connected that wasn't 4K.

I say minimum but you might want something faster if your software can make good use of GPU acceleration.

 

[macdos]

AMD Radeon HD 7950 3 GB, Sapphire Mac version, drives 2 x 4K@60 Hz + 1 x 1K @60 Hz on my cMP 3,1, and it works fairly well (CPU is actually more of a limit). I need the 1K for boot screen, as I use Filevault.

Adobe 2018 apps (minus Bridge) are quick, and you can easily watch two 2160p movies simultaneously without any error.

For CAD in general, GPU is not the problem, but the CPU. No CAD program utlilizes multiple cores for any heavy 3D rendering, so you are stuck with one core.

 

[pvdbg]

10.11.6 15G19009 is the latest version of El Cap I'm aware of with security updates.

NVIDIA driver would be 346.03.15f12:
http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/130479/en-us

According to the supported products list, the GTX 680 is supported with this NVIDIA web driver:
GeForce GTX 680
GeForce GTX 285
GeForce GT 120
GeForce 8800 GT
Quadro K5000 for Mac, Quadro 4000 for Mac
Quadro FX 4800, Quadro FX 5600

346.03.15f12 direct link:
https://images.nvidia.com/mac/pkg/346/WebDriver-346.03.15f12.pkg

Your 4K requirement may be the most limiting factor with your GPU selection. Knocking down to 2560x1600 (or less) would expand the possibilities. You likely could get 4K working with many of these cards with SwitchResX, but unsure how stable it would be for your needs or if you NEED 60hz vs 30hz. Your connection to monitor would also play a factor (DisplayPort vs HDMI).

What Adobe software are you using? What versions?

I am currently still using Photoshop and InDesign CS5 which does enough for what I need. Though maybe I need to upgrade depending on the system I end up with.

The 4K at 60hz vs 30hz is something I'll have to research more.The 4K is something new for me and can give me an advantage to get clients as my projects are more geared to the top segment of the market. But whether I need 60hz or 30hz I'm not sure at this moment.
[doublepost=1521545202][/doublepost]

Another note, if you upgrade to Sierra/High Sierra, your mac will need a firmware update which needs a 'mac' gpu to do.

Does that mean its needs to be an OEM model? Or just that it has to be correctly recognized by the OS? I noticed that the Sapphire Pulse RX580 works fine in a cMP. Does this meet this requirement?
[doublepost=1521545318][/doublepost]

The 5770 will not do 4K at 60Hz. The minimum you'll need is a GTX 680. The 680 does not support 4K boot screens, so although you can easily flash it yourself for boot screens, there wouldn't be any point unless you had a second monitor connected that wasn't 4K.

I say minimum but you might want something faster if your software can make good use of GPU acceleration.

The 5770 was related to the previous post about having as a backup incase I have issues. I wouldn't be using it regularly.
[doublepost=1521545499][/doublepost]

AMD Radeon HD 7950 3 GB, Sapphire Mac version, drives 2 x 4K@60 Hz + 1 x 1K @60 Hz on my cMP 3,1, and it works fairly well (CPU is actually more of a limit). I need the 1K for boot screen, as I use Filevault.

Adobe 2018 apps (minus Bridge) are quick, and you can easily watch two 2160p movies simultaneously without any error.

For CAD in general, GPU is not the problem, but the CPU. No CAD program utlilizes multiple cores for any heavy 3D rendering, so you are stuck with one core.

Thanks for giving me an idea about the whats needed to run 4K.

I don't render in CAD, I use Blender which can use all CPU cores for CPU rendering.
[doublepost=1521545709][/doublepost]

i just want to add i use a GTX770 (msi) 4GB and that works fine on the native osx display driver just like the 680 (but no boot screen), apart from no boot display it works as a slightly faster 680 10/20% i gess faster with the factory OC

but also looks like the wx7100 will work with some mods
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ngle-slot-card-work-on-mac-pro.2025190/page-2
the WX 5100 is confirmed working on the 3rd page of that topic (at the time it was posted) in osx 10.12

Thanks. I will look further into these. I also came across VEGA cards as a possible solution because it allows for system RAM to be used which is a huge benefit. They however have fan issues which maybe will hopefully be resolved soon.

 

[bsbeamer]

Doubt VEGA cards will work with El Cap. You'll probably need to update/upgrade your OS to use most new cards.

 

[kohlson]

The 5770 will not do 4K at 60Hz.

FWIW, my friend bought a Dell P2718Q (4K) and connected it to his 5770. It worked at 4K, though he runs it primarily at 1440p. Note that 4K exceeds the published spec.

 

[ActionableMango]

FWIW, my friend bought a Dell P2718Q (4K) and connected it to his 5770. It worked at 4K, though he runs it primarily at 1440p. Note that 4K exceeds the published spec.

At 60Hz?

It will do 4K at 30Hz, but I think most people would consider the usability to be unacceptable.

 

[MarkC426]

Does that mean its needs to be an OEM model? Or just that it has to be correctly recognized by the OS? I noticed that the Sapphire Pulse RX580 works fine in a cMP. Does this meet this requirement?
[doublepost=1521545318][/doublepost]

Yes it needs to have a mac EFI firmware (i.e. a gpu that shipped with a mac like the 5770).
I had to do this update before putting RX580 pulse in.

Edit: this is not required for Sierra, only HS.

 

[pvdbg]

One other question is I have the option of ordering a 2010 or a 2012 with a significant price difference. I would think that they will both be marked by apple as obsolete at the same time as far as OS updates. So other than more wear on a 2010, is there really any reason to choose the 2012?
[doublepost=1521575743][/doublepost]

At 60Hz?

It will do 4K at 30Hz, but I think most people would consider the usability to be unacceptable.

And by "unacceptable usability" this would mean for everything but gaming? I don't have experience with 30Hz vs 60Hz so just want to be sure its functional for what I listed in the first post. So without a doubt, if I go the 4K route, 60Hz is a must?

 

[MarkC426]

There would be just too much lag with anything graphical, like cad/revit, at 30hz.
Plus how are you getting more clients by having a 4k display?
You can render to whatever rez you want.

 

[pvdbg]

There would be just too much lag with anything graphical, like cad/revit, at 30hz.
Plus how are you getting more clients by having a 4k display?
You can render to whatever rez you want.

Yes I guess that is true. I just thought it would be ideal to be able to see the end result myself at 4K before forwarding to clients.

 

[ActionableMango]

And by "unacceptable usability" this would mean for everything but gaming? I don't have experience with 30Hz vs 60Hz so just want to be sure its functional for what I listed in the first post. So without a doubt, if I go the 4K route, 60Hz is a must?

Nothing to do with gaming.

I don't know from personal experience, but other people here have said it was unacceptable even doing simple things like moving the mouse around and dragging windows.

 

[h9826790]

Nothing to do with gaming.

I don't know from personal experience, but other people here have said it was unacceptable even doing simple things like moving the mouse around and dragging windows.

I tried 4K 30Hz with my TV. That's horrible for daily use, the input lag is too large for general use, even control the mouse precisely is a challenge.

 

[pvdbg]

I tried 4K 30Hz with my TV. That's horrible for daily use, the input lag is too large for general use, even control the mouse precisely is a challenge.

Thanks for the input. I have seen a lot of your posts about the RX 580. But I think most were related to using with High Sierra. After more research I am finding the jump from Sierra to High Sierra isn't a good match for a lot of my software. Being not technical, I'm wondering if as changes are made to High Sierra are they also made in Sierra? Do you have recommendations for newer GPUs that work in Sierra or do they all need to be "modified" in some way (kext edit, etc.)?

Also there was a thread about power usage for the RX 580 from the PCIe slot. I will be using it for GPU rendering which can be very long/intensive, so is there anything I should keep in mind as far as power usage when selecting a card? I was hoping to use a WX card but I think to get one to work is above my skill level.

 

[pvdbg]

Do you NEED boot screens?

Some of your applications can benefit from CUDA, if it's installed (works with NVIDIA cards).

If you 100% need boot screens, authentic options are a little limited. You can find a flashed card for 9XX and 10XX series, but the latest "authentic" NVIDIA card is the EVGA GTX 680 for Mac. It is no longer being made. You'll have to find from resellers, but be warned that many are not authentic versions being sold...

With your 4K requirement, I'd recommend to upgrade to High Sierra and get an NVIDIA 10XX series card. If you're not on the latest OS, your options with the newest (more widely available) cards MAY be limited. Unsure 100% where the NVIDIA web drivers for older OS versions stand and which series stops with where. The EVGA GTX 680 for Mac supported 10.8.3+ at release:
https://www.evga.com/products/specs/gpu.aspx?pn=da5dc70b-d8b1-4f97-8dd9-1f71e3fa1308

Stock NVIDIA GPUs work fine with the NVIDIA web drivers. Currently using an NVIDIA GTX 1080 Founders Edition (FE) and it's great with MacPro5,1. It's powered via dual mini 6-pin to 8-pin cables, which means you will not need a separate power supply (just a cheap cable). It's an easy upgrade.

Other cards are compatible, but the Founders Edition cards are directly made by NVIDIA and are most supported by the NVIDIA web drivers:
1080 FE: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/products/10series/geforce-gtx-1080/
1060 FE: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/products/10series/geforce-gtx-1060/

After doing more research on the NVIDIA cards I have read a lot about crashing with Adobe suite. Do you use those programs and if so, have you experienced any issues with them?

 

[bsbeamer]

After doing more research on the NVIDIA cards I have read a lot about crashing with Adobe suite. Do you use those programs and if so, have you experienced any issues with them?

Actually find High Sierra more stable with NVIDIA GTX 1080 FE, latest NVIDIA drivers, and latest CUDA. Running Adobe CC 2018.

Are there crashes at times? Yes. Are they GPU related? Not usually. Often are memory issues or plugin/effects issues.

 

[h9826790]

Thanks for the input. I have seen a lot of your posts about the RX 580. But I think most were related to using with High Sierra. After more research I am finding the jump from Sierra to High Sierra isn't a good match for a lot of my software. Being not technical, I'm wondering if as changes are made to High Sierra are they also made in Sierra? Do you have recommendations for newer GPUs that work in Sierra or do they all need to be "modified" in some way (kext edit, etc.)?

Also there was a thread about power usage for the RX 580 from the PCIe slot. I will be using it for GPU rendering which can be very long/intensive, so is there anything I should keep in mind as far as power usage when selecting a card? I was hoping to use a WX card but I think to get one to work is above my skill level.

RX580 is natively supported in 10.12.6.