MP 7,1 cMP 8,1: will you switch to Redfern or stick with Intel?

[TECK]

Based on un-official news, the new Mac Pro will feature a Redfern processor with a bridge that connects 2 M1 Ultra together. If Apple also offers a refreshed Intel 8,1, will you stick with it or go the Redfern route?
I would personally prefer an Intel model, as it will offer more flexibility for long term upgrades and hopefully native Windows 11+ support.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502675792886697985

 

[mikas]

It all depends on how the GPU will perform, and if my softwares will catch-up with Apple Silicon overall. AND if there is some kind of upgrade path other that buying a new Mac every time. The CPU side of ASi is in good condition.

My other foot is on the win-side already, but still limbing with 5,1 and 6,1. Without ASi reveal a little over 2 years ago I probably would have a 7,1 by now.

ps. Link to speculations discussed 4 moths ago, some more info-graphics in there, I won't post the pics here again.

 

[avro707]

I’ll stay with Intel so I can use Windows. That's important to me - and the PC workstations aren't built anywhere near as well as the Mac Pro 7,1.

I already bought a new 7,1 so I won’t need a 8,1 for a long while.

 

[randy85]

I wouldn't buy a new Intel Mac due to H265 performance. Even if I'm mostly working with a raw format or prores, I do get a fair bit of HEVC from B cameras and it totally trips up Intel Macs.

It's one use case where future upgradability is a moot point if it's not optimised like on AS.

 

[TECK]

I wouldn't buy a new Intel Mac due to H265 performance.

That's interesting, can you share more on that subject?

 

[randy85]

That's interesting, can you share more on that subject?

Sure, it's basically that the media engines in the M1/M2 Macs can handle HEVC footage whereas even a really powerful 7.1 Mac Pro will stutter. The Max Tech videos are a little clickbaity but cover some if it with tests:

I think some people overestimate the effect extra GPU, RAM etc will have here (the upgradability argument) when it's the architecture of Apple Silicon that makes them far better at working with that footage - which is going to remain popular with more 8k cameras coming onto the market.

As I say, it's not a universal use case, but for me it's a pretty major factor. I'm weirdly forced to use proxies only with the lowest bitrate files I work with.

 

[startergo]

That's interesting, can you share more on that subject?

More specifically MP7,1 struggles with 8K 10bit 422 footage as no discrete card (AMD or NVIDIA) so far provides hardware acceleration for this sample rate. So, you would have to have at least 18 core MP7,1 or higher to process this footage in the CPU without hiccups (as reported by some users).

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

More specifically MP7,1 struggles with 8K 10bit 422 footage as no discrete card (AMD or NVIDIA) so far provides hardware acceleration for this sample rate. So, you would have to have at least 18 core MP7,1 or higher to process this footage in the CPU without hiccups (as reported by some users).

Wanna bet that the next iteration of video cards brings that. That's what's so great about having modularity.

And in the mean time with those OH SO IMPORTANT 8k work flows, no apple hardware, EXCEPT the 7,1 can use an 8k HDMI monitor to actually show 8k video at 8k.

 

[startergo]

Wanna bet that the next iteration of video cards brings that. That's what's so great about having modularity.

And in the mean time with those OH SO IMPORTANT 8k work flows, no apple hardware, EXCEPT the 7,1 can use an 8k HDMI monitor to actually show 8k video at 8k.

That is only if Apple develops drivers for those cards, which will only happen if they make MPX versions of those cards. A lot of "if's"

 

[Dayo]

you would have to have at least 18 core MP7,1 or higher to process this footage

While I always struggle to understand how the explosion of people editing all sorts of exotic high end and high rez footage came to happen as it seems one can't take two steps without bumping into one these days, my only query is whether it is impossible to, at some point, swap a CPU with 18 cores or more into an MP71 having started out with less.

 

[startergo]

While I always struggle to understand how the explosion of people editing all sorts of exotic high end and high rez footage came to happen as it seems one can't take two steps without bumping into one these days, my only query is whether it is impossible to, at some point, swap a CPU with 18 cores or more into an MP71 having started out with less.

One has to wonder how would be this dilemma solved :
Buy a new processor or new Mac studio? (Almost the same price)

 

[tsialex]

swap a CPU with 18 cores or more into an MP71 having started out with less.

You can buy the bare/basic 2019 Mac Pro model, with just a 8-core W-3223 Xeon and upgrade it to the top supported Cascade Lake Xeon, the 28-core + 1,5TB of RAM supported W-3275M.

 

[tsialex]

One has to wonder how would be this dilemma :
Buy a new processor or new Mac studio? (Almost the same price)

For people that like to use the best tool for the job, makes more sense to buy the Mac Studio to use it for the workflows that it shine and continue to use the Mac Pro for the rest - you can probably double your productivity.

The question to think is that you probably can buy a used W-3265M (eBay prices are ~$1275 for a retail one and ~$700 for a QS) for a lot less money than the Mac Studio.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

That is only if Apple develops drivers for those cards, which will only happen if they make MPX versions of those cards. A lot of "if's"

I'm not betting apple makes drivers for it. Just that it will be added. The point is, 3rd party GPUs can not only keep pace with apple's few optimizations, in most areas, they are way past them. Not tying it to the computer is also way better. For example, someone recently added a 6800xt to their ancient 5,1 machine in this forum. The metal scores are almost the same as they are on the 7,1 and way faster than the Mac Studio.

The trashcan and trashcan 2 (electric boogaloo, aka Mac Studio) become disposable machines either with no GPU upgrade path or artificially tying GPU with CPU, and still no GPU upgrade path. For many people that's fine. But for many pro's it's a non starter.

 

[avro707]

While I always struggle to understand how the explosion of people editing all sorts of exotic high end and high rez footage came to happen as it seems one can't take two steps without bumping into one these days, my only query is whether it is impossible to, at some point, swap a CPU with 18 cores or more into an MP71 having started out with less.

Well yes, it's very easy to swap the CPU. I could put in the 28 core 2.5ghz in mine tomorrow if someone pays AUD$3500 for it.

At the moment I don't need that CPU. I'm sure some have upgraded from a lower spec CPU. I went with the mid level 16 core.

 

[profdraper]

Sure, it's basically that the media engines in the M1/M2 Macs can handle HEVC footage whereas even a really powerful 7.1 Mac Pro will stutter. The Max Tech videos are a little clickbaity but cover some if it with tests:

I think some people overestimate the effect extra GPU, RAM etc will have here (the upgradability argument) when it's the architecture of Apple Silicon that makes them far better at working with that footage - which is going to remain popular with more 8k cameras coming onto the market.

As I say, it's not a universal use case, but for me it's a pretty major factor. I'm weirdly forced to use proxies only with the lowest bitrate files I work with.

"A little clickbaity"? Please, that is one of the most awful publications I have ever come across. Noisy, biased, flappy-mouthed, dreadful American rubbish. This would be the absolute last place to go to do any useful & unbiased research.

Otherwise, yes, the GPU will be an inetesting matter to watch (film production etc). I have no intention in moving away from my 7,1 anytime soon.

 

[goMac]

Based on un-official news, the new Mac Pro will feature a Redfern processor with a bridge that connects 2 M1 Ultra together. If Apple also offers a refreshed Intel 8,1, will you stick with it or go the Redfern route?
I would personally prefer an Intel model, as it will offer more flexibility for long term upgrades and hopefully native Windows 11+ support.

Pretty sure this rumor as already killed by Gurman who said this Mac Pro won't be shipping. Only some M2 version.

(Which also has to do with this Twitter post coming from the beginning of 2022.)

 

[4wdwrx]

"A little clickbaity"? Please, that is one of the most awful publications I have ever come across. Noisy, biased, flappy-mouthed, dreadful American rubbish. This would be the absolute last place to go to do any useful & unbiased research.

Otherwise, yes, the GPU will be an inetesting matter to watch (film production etc). I have no intention in moving away from my 7,1 anytime soon.

Hey now, Apple is 'merican.

Besides, my 7,1 don't even support the best GPUs even if it can be installed physically.

 

[exoticSpice]

That leak is wrong. Apple is not making an SoC based on 2 M1 Ultras.

 

[exoticSpice]

"A little clickbaity"? Please, that is one of the most awful publications I have ever come across. Noisy, biased, flappy-mouthed, dreadful American rubbish. This would be the absolute last place to go to do any useful & unbiased research.

Otherwise, yes, the GPU will be an inetesting matter to watch (film production etc). I have no intention in moving away from my 7,1 anytime soon.

This channel made so many clickbait videos on the M2 MacBook Air calling it slow and weak for sustained 8K video editing. The M2 Air is a good machine for it's designed for. I ignore his videos and if do watch I take everything with a grain of salt and go check information on more reputable sources.

Now he compares the M2 MBA to the 7,1. It's really sad and his audience just take it.

 

[randy85]

"A little clickbaity"? Please, that is one of the most awful publications I have ever come across. Noisy, biased, flappy-mouthed, dreadful American rubbish. This would be the absolute last place to go to do any useful & unbiased research.

Otherwise, yes, the GPU will be an inetesting matter to watch (film production etc). I have no intention in moving away from my 7,1 anytime soon.

Well, if you know of a better video that tackles this specific subject then please share.

The point still stands that a new Intel Mac is a poor proposition for video editors due to this one issue. I'm still happy with my 7.1 and it does a great job with other types of footage.

We can live in hope the the next generations of AMD GPUs are supported and specifically fix this issue, but I'm not holding my breath. Apple may be of the opinion that they've found a solution to it... in Apple Silicon.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Well, if you know of a better video that tackles this specific subject then please share.

The point still stands that a new Intel Mac is a poor proposition for video editors due to this one issue. I'm still happy with my 7.1 and it does a great job with other types of footage.

We can live in hope the the next generations of AMD GPUs are supported and specifically fix this issue, but I'm not holding my breath. Apple may be of the opinion that they've found a solution to it... in Apple Silicon.

The problem of it being in a CPU is there is no upgradeability. Look at how fast this tech has advanced. From zero support to pretty fast speed in after burner. Now the M2 blows the afterburner away. GPUs can be updated every year basically to keep improving this. But you're forever stuck frozen with what is in apple silicon for that machine. If you have a GPU that gets upgraded to perform way faster than what is in the M2 in a year, that basically becomes cruft/crud in the CPU that serves no purpose because it is no longer state of the art when you get your new GPU.

Seems like a poor place for it, and more properly put into a GPU IMO. It makes total sense for apple's other appliance level computers with no GPU options.

 

[Wokis]

Well, if you know of a better video that tackles this specific subject then please share.

The point still stands that a new Intel Mac is a poor proposition for video editors due to this one issue. I'm still happy with my 7.1 and it does a great job with other types of footage.

We can live in hope the the next generations of AMD GPUs are supported and specifically fix this issue, but I'm not holding my breath. Apple may be of the opinion that they've found a solution to it... in Apple Silicon.

I don't live and die on the hill of H265 4:2:2 playback performance. Modularity trumps having to click the "generate optmized media" button once in a while. For me at least.

 

[randy85]

You guys make it sound like they're endlessly upgradable when they're not.

A 7.1 will never get a better CPU than the 28 core chip and we don't know if anything beyond RDNA2 will get support on the GPU front.

You can put in more RAM that most software doesn't need / can't use.

I also don't live and die on the H265 hill, but I do waste time and hard drive space on it.

 

[Matty_TypeR]

I think apple would be stupid not to allow RDNA 3 into the mac pro 7.1 because there is no Mac pro 8.1 yet and RDNA 3 will be released before a Mac pro 8.1 M2 ultra fandango chip version. Plus some have invested heavily into the 7.1 and GPU upgrade was the whole point of the 7.1 Mac pro.

Plus unlike the new 8.1 yet to come RDNA 3 will be supported in windows which the studio or M2 mac pro 8.1 cant even boot up. So if i have to, i will use windows with 7900xt simple as that.