Confusion About Local / iCloud Storage (w/EndNote)

[LettuceFarm]

Hello,

I'm working on my dissertation and I need to use EndNote. The developers and my library are advising not to save the library in a cloud based storage or a network to avoid file corruption. I'm very confused about this. Back in the day, it was clear for me what cloud and local is, but now my desktop is cloud based, my documents, calendar, etc. This allows me to use my files across different platforms.

So my question now, if I save my EndNote library in my documents (and they're optimized for cloud), would that be considered cloud based now? If so, is there a way to make just this folder local and not part of the entire cloud ecosystem, even thought I chose in the settings that my documents should be part of cloud?

Sorry if this sounds silly, but I'm pressed for time and I can't find a direct answer.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Mike Boreham]

Hello,

I'm working on my dissertation and I need to use EndNote. The developers and my library are advising not to save the library in a cloud based storage or a network to avoid file corruption. I'm very confused about this. Back in the day, it was clear for me what cloud and local is, but now my desktop is cloud based, my documents, calendar, etc. This allows me to use my files across different platforms.

So my question now, if I save my EndNote library in my documents (and they're optimized for cloud), would that be considered cloud based now? If so, is there a way to make just this folder local and not part of the entire cloud ecosystem, even thought I chose in the settings that my documents should be part of cloud?

Sorry if this sounds silly, but I'm pressed for time and I can't find a direct answer.

Thanks in advance.

Sounds like you have "Documents & Desktop in iCloud" checked:

This means that docs on Desktop and in Documents are in iCloud and sync'd to all devices.

Provided you have NOT checked "Optimise Mac Storage" then there is a local copy on your Mac which is sync'd to iCloud.

If you do have "Optimise" checked then you may have full size files locally, but you are giving macOS permission to replace the full files with stub pointer files if it sees fit. This will certainly cause problems for third party apps as well as backing up.

I don't know anything about Endnote but having your Documents folder on iCloud Drive doesn't necessarily prevent third party apps using them. I have DEVONthink which can index files on iCloud Drive. However my DEVONthink databases are not on iCloud, only the indexed files. So maybe good idea not to have Endnote library on iCloud as advised. You could put the Endnote Library in a different non iCloud location or you could turn off "Documents & Desktop in iCloud".

If you want to remove Desktop and Documents from iCloud you can uncheck "Documents & Desktop in iCloud" and all the files will be put in a local folder called Cloud Drive Archive in your user directory and you can then move them where you want to.

 

[TriciaMacMillan]

I’d recommend to create a new folder under your user folder and name that „Local Documents“ for example. Then add it to Finder‘s shortcuts and use it for files that should not be stored in iCloud Drive.

 

[Brian33]

If so, is there a way to make just this folder local and not part of the entire cloud ecosystem

Yes. I think TriciaMacMillan has the best idea. To try to clarify, you will make a new folder to hold your EndNote documents. As long as this new folder is outside of your existing Documents and Desktop folders, it won't be synced to iCloud. It will only exist on that Mac.

Use Finder to go to your Home folder: you can use Shift-Command-H. Your home folder has a "house" icon and contains folders like Desktop, Documents, Downloads, Movies, etc. Create a brand new folder: File-->New Folder. You can name it anything you like: "EndNote Stuff" or "Local Documents", for example. Make sure your new folder is at the "same level" as Documents, Downloads, Movies, etc. (NOT inside of one of those folders.)

If you use Finder's sidebar, you can drag your new local documents folder into the sidebar for easier access. Just make sure you configure EndNote to save everything in the new folder!

 

[LettuceFarm]

Thank you so much guys. Everyone's input was helpful. Question though, but if I install it under the user folder, that means I won't be able to access the bibliography/app on other devices (iPad), unless the application uses a sync feature, right?

 

[Mike Boreham]

Thank you so much guys. Everyone's input was helpful. Question though, but if I install it under the user folder, that means I won't be able to access the bibliography/app on other devices (iPad), unless the application uses a sync feature, right?

Correct. Apps like Chronosync will two-way synchronise with another Mac on your network, but not iDevices.

IME most modern apps which have databases and libraries advise strongly against putting the actual database/library on a cloud location, but they use sysncstores which are on the cloud to get round this. These act as a go-between the local libraries on the actual devices. (DEVONthink can also use Bonjour to sync directly with all other Macs, iPads and iPhones on the same network).

As I mentioned I use DEVONthink, and also Moneydance, which have their own iOS/iPadOS apps which sync the iDevice databases with the databases on the Macs.

I found this in the App Store searching for Endnote:

‎EndNote

‎Collect, collaborate, create from anywhere with the EndNote app - the world's most popular research management tool. With flexible tools for searching, organizing, sharing research, and creating bibliographies, the EndNote app extends your ability to stay on top of cutting edge research and...

apps.apple.com

As I said I don't know anything about Endnote so this may be off target.

EDIT The Endnote website has this, which sounds like what you want to do:

"Work From Anywhere
Access your research anytime, anywhere from the cloud. Move seamlessly between online and the desktop and iPad applications."

 

[ssmed]

Definitely make a folder in your ~users/user/ directory for Endnote only. I get the impression that a small library with a few papers will happily work on the desktop with iCloud sync, but a large PhD or experienced researcher library with attachments is often catching up with itself all the time. It was an absolute disaster to keep the library in Dropbox in the past in my experience

Endnote has in its full licence manifestation at least an online synchronisation mode that means you can always get to your library as long as you have a current licence and less than 2GB of references. You may have alternative mileage with this if you have a university account. For instance my university has not upgraded to v20 and undergrads only have web access.

https://www.myendnoteweb.com/

Endnote is one of those programmes that is not loved, but has become essential and in which many people have invested vast amounts of time building research libraries (in my case since 1992). One day a program that will import a whole library in its entirety, is cheaper, faster and is updated in a timely manner (something for which Endnote has been awful) will come along and replace it in a moment in a Quark versus Pagemaker type of scenario. But for now, it is the best option.

 

[LettuceFarm]

Thank you so much Mike and ssmed. I'm trying hard to understand your explanation, but my brain isn't tech wired sadly 🙈 I honestly feel very overwhelmed by this. At some point, I decided not to even use a reference management app, but the past couple of weeks things are starting to build up and it's hard keeping track of everything I'm finding online. My research is cross-referencing between several disciplines, so there's a lot of resources from different disciplines, including newsy websites.

ssmed, you're absolutely right. EndNote isn't the easiest to use, but when I compared to Zotero, I felt the interface was better for me. I will try to figure this out this week. I have to. The other problem is extracting resources metadata (like websites) to the app. As far as I know EndNote isn't the friendliest with Safari either. Their direct extraction extension is outdated. Only works better with Chrome and Firefox (which I don't use; all my bookmarks--tons of them are in Safari).

 

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

You could take a look at https://www.papersapp.com which is what I use - A reference manager, citation manager, and PDF organiser. Its 5$ a month for academics, which gives you Mac app, iOS app, web app, Safari scraper plugin, and unlimited PDF storage/syncing space. There are some limitations compared to what I previously used (Papers 2), but it is miles ahead of anything else in the field IMHO, as I have tested essentially everything that is out there. You can also add manual entries, so I believe it should be able to handle your websites too. There's a 30 day trial you can test out,.

 

[ssmed]

The other thing to mention is that many university / college libraries have reference citation programmes to aid you through the process such as citethemrightonline and for works with less than 20-30 references this type of system can be much more efficient.

Good luck, references and citations are an essential thing to learn about and experience, but sometimes they do seems to suck the joy out of the 'voyage of discovery'.

 

[LettuceFarm]

The other thing to mention is that many university / college libraries have reference citation programmes to aid you through the process such as citethemrightonline and for works with less than 20-30 references this type of system can be much more efficient.

Good luck, references and citations are an essential thing to learn about and experience, but sometimes they do seems to suck the joy out of the 'voyage of discovery'.

Thank you ssmed. Certain workflows do take away the joy of discovery. I loved how you described it. We'll see how it goes 🙏🏻

 

[LettuceFarm]

Hi guys. I was thinking, if I save the library under the user locally (not cloud), do I also need to save the PDFs linked to the library locally too? This will be a problem, because I would like to read and annotate them in other devices.

 

[Mike Boreham]

Hi guys. I was thinking, if I save the library under the user locally (not cloud), do I also need to save the PDFs linked to the library locally too? This will be a problem, because I would like to read and annotate them in other devices.

I very much doubt that would work. Would the macOS library even open on an iPad?

What you want to achieve (seamless working on the same data on Mac and iDevices) can be done, but only by using the programs the way the makers intend, ie Mac and iOS apps syncing and working in harness. This may seem complicated but worth the effort. I don't know Endnote but many people use DEVONthink for the similar purposes, and others have been mentioned.

Out of curiosity just did a bit of googling and saw this ....not much love for Endnote! Hmmm...just noticed that is a very old link so maybe things have improved!

 

[LettuceFarm]

I very much doubt that would work. Would the macOS library even open on an iPad?

What you want to achieve (seamless working on the same data on Mac and iDevices) can be done, but only by using the programs the way the makers intend, ie Mac and iOS apps syncing and working in harness. This may seem complicated but worth the effort. I don't know Endnote but many people use DEVONthink for the similar purposes, and others have been mentioned.

Out of curiosity just did a bit of googling and saw this ....not much love for Endnote! Hmmm...just noticed that is a very old link so maybe things have improved!

Hi Mike,
Honestly, I feel so overwhelmed. I really do—not to mention the overall stress with this whole dissertation. I was excited about my topic, but I feel myself falling back on the work, because I find all this technology suffocating and bothersome to learn. I understand it comes easier for some people and they find my frustration with it as silly, but I really feel my brain is struggling to remember and understand how these apps work.

I tried Zotero all night yesterday and I feel it's slightly easier. I like EndNote's cleaner and wider interface more, but with Zotero it seems I won't have to worry about cloud/local issues. I just need to figure out a way now to link the research PDF attachments to the databases in Zotero or any resource management system and then find a way that allows me to annotate the PDFs and keep them there.

I was printing out all the studies I needed, but I feel horrible doing that. Some studies are very very long and I'm wasting so much paper and ink just printing every day at this rate if I continue doing this. I want to be able to annotate with my iPad. We'll see how it goes. I really hope I can get over this obstacle so I can actually DO the work.

Sorry for the venting. Minor breakdown.