MP 7,1 Connecting 3 Displays?

[choreo]

I have a 2019 Mac Pro with a w5700x GPU. I have had random kernel panics on (2) identically configured Mac Pros over the past 3 years. Apple Tech Support - out of solutions. Some have posted on this forum that my problem source is the w5700x card and that I should spend a few grand on a w6800/6900x card and my problem will be solved. Hard to justify dumping more money into a machine Apple will soon abandon support for.

Today I was researching GPUs for the 7,1 one the Apple site and came across this set of instructions for the 6800/6900 GPUs:

Three Pro Display XDRs with resolutions of 6016 x 3384 at 60Hz connected as follows:

• One display on Bus 0
• One display on Bus 1
• One display on a Thunderbolt 3 port at the top* or rear (Apple I/O card) of your Mac

Three 5K displays with resolutions of 5120 x 2880 at 60Hz connected as follows:

• One display on Bus 0
• One display on Bus 1
• One display on a Thunderbolt 3 port at the top* or rear (Apple I/O card) of your Mac

There were no such instructions stated for the w5700x card as far as preferred "Bus" connections? I have always had (2) displays connected to Bus 0 and (1) display connected to Bus 1. Do you think if I unplugged one of my displays from Bus 0 on the GPU and connected it to the top, that could fix my situation?

 

[mattspace]

I have a 2019 Mac Pro with a w5700x GPU. I have had random kernel panics on (2) identically configured Mac Pros over the past 3 years. Apple Tech Support - out of solutions. Some have posted on this forum that my problem source is the w5700x card and that I should spend a few grand on a w6800/6900x card and my problem will be solved. Hard to justify dumping more money into a machine Apple will soon abandon support for.

Today I was researching GPUs for the 7,1 one the Apple site and came across this set of instructions for the 6800/6900 GPUs:

Three Pro Display XDRs with resolutions of 6016 x 3384 at 60Hz connected as follows:

• One display on Bus 0
• One display on Bus 1
• One display on a Thunderbolt 3 port at the top* or rear (Apple I/O card) of your Mac

Three 5K displays with resolutions of 5120 x 2880 at 60Hz connected as follows:

• One display on Bus 0
• One display on Bus 1
• One display on a Thunderbolt 3 port at the top* or rear (Apple I/O card) of your Mac

There were no such instructions stated for the w5700x card as far as preferred "Bus" connections? I have always had (2) displays connected to Bus 0 and (1) display connected to Bus 1. Do you think if I unplugged one of my displays from Bus 0 on the GPU and connected it to the top, that could fix my situation?

I have 3 displays on one of my 2 w5700x and there's a few things to consider from my experiments...

Until the OS boots past loading the drivers, or if you're in safe mode: only 2 displays are supported.

Here's the instructions you're looing for with regards to the w5700x:

Use the Radeon Pro W5700X MPX Module with your Mac Pro (2019) – Apple Support (AU)

Find out about the different display set-ups that you can use with your MPX Module on your Mac Pro (2019).

support.apple.com

I run a bunch of display molesting software - SwitchResX for some virtual resolutions, Stay, I have Sidecar set up with my iPad (necessary to make old SketchUP versions display measurements correctly).

 

[choreo]

I have 3 displays on one of my 2 w5700x and there's a few things to consider from my experiments...

Until the OS boots past loading the drivers, or if you're in safe mode: only 2 displays are supported.

Here's the instructions you're looing for with regards to the w5700x:

Use the Radeon Pro W5700X MPX Module with your Mac Pro (2019) – Apple Support (AU)

Find out about the different display set-ups that you can use with your MPX Module on your Mac Pro (2019).

support.apple.com

I run a bunch of display molesting software - SwitchResX for some virtual resolutions, Stay, I have Sidecar set up with my iPad (necessary to make old SketchUP versions display measurements correctly).

I saw that page previously, but for (3) displays it does not specifically say to plug only (one) into Bus 0, 1 the third to a built-in TB Bus (like the instructions for the 6800/6900 cards)? The w5700x instructions make it sound like you can plug any monitor anywhere the way I read them? My kernel panics are very random... three a day to once every one-two weeks

 

[mattspace]

I saw that page previously, but for (3) displays it does not specifically say to plug only (one) into Bus 0, 1 the third to a built-in TB Bus (like the instructions for the 6800/6900 cards)? The w5700x instructions make it sound like you can plug any monitor anywhere the way I read them? My kernel panics are very random... three a day to once every one-two weeks

Yes it does:

"Three Apple Pro Display XDRs with resolutions of 6016 x 3384 at 60Hz connected to any three of the following locations: Bus 0, Bus 1 and either the top* or rear Thunderbolt 3 ports on your Mac Pro. Connect one display for each location."

So there's 3 busses, 2 on the GPU, and one on the computer, which is split between the top and i/o card ports. 1 display per bus, but it doesn't matter which port within which bus you use.

Something you might want to check - the only instability my system used to have, was because it was doing maintenance wake from sleep, and because of reasons, it wasn't waking ALL my displays up, so after doing these sleep / wake cycles it would have had a number of changes in the display configuration, and I think that causes problems.

I disabled the sleep/wake schedule so the system couldn't change it, and it's been rock solid ever since.

That maintenance was, as far as I can tell, checking to make sure the machine hadn't moved while asleep which would throw off the "time to leave" alerts.

 

[choreo]

I went ahead (just now) and moved my main monitor (ASD) from the GPU (Bus 0) to one of the Mac Pro ports (leaving the other two monitors connected to Bus 0 and Bus 1 on the GPU) one each respectively. We will see how it goes.

I will already had Wake Up for Network Activity and Enable Power Nap deselected in Energy Prefs, but double checked to make sure.

Thanks!

 

[mattspace]

I went ahead (just now) and moved my main monitor (ASD) from the GPU (Bus 0) to one of the Mac Pro ports (leaving the other two monitors connected to Bus 0 and Bus 1 on the GPU) one each respectively. We will see how it goes.

I will already had Wake Up for Network Activity and Enable Power Nap deselected in Energy Prefs, but double checked to make sure.

Thanks!

Those two settings don't control it, unfortunately. The issue I'm describing has no user-accessible access.

Have a read of this:

Ventura 13 Power Events - Apple Community

discussions.apple.com

and give it a go.

I know something my machine used to do, is lose connection to USB peripherals connected to a thnderbolt port via a TB3 -> USB-A converter. They're dead solid connected to the usb-a ports. I wonder if the problem you're having is actually the thunderbolt monitor?

 

[choreo]

Those two settings don't control it, unfortunately. The issue I'm describing has no user-accessible access.

Have a read of this:

Ventura 13 Power Events - Apple Community

discussions.apple.com

and give it a go.

I know something my machine used to do, is lose connection to USB peripherals connected to a thnderbolt port via a TB3 -> USB-A converter. They're dead solid connected to the usb-a ports. I wonder if the problem you're having is actually the thunderbolt monitor?

My Mac Pro is still on the latest version of Monterey.

When I first started having kernel panics (98% during or waking from sleep), I had (3) NEC 27" 2K monitors attached via three identical DisplayPort to USB3 cables to the GPU. I replaced (1) of those monitors with a 27" 5K ASD a year ago, but kernel panics continued at the same rate. Also installed all new Belkin monitor cables to the two remaining NECs a couple days ago - still had two panics since then during sleep - so not a cable issue. I should also mention that I had the same 3 NEC monitors connected to my 2012 Mac Pro for eight years, never a kernel panic.

BlueSnooze in your referenced article looks interesting?

The only peripheral I have connected directly to the Mac TB ports is a hub which I swapped out for another OWC hub which made no difference. I have also tried disconnecting the hub completely, but still had the same behavior.

 

[mattspace]

My Mac Pro is still on the latest version of Monterey.

When I first started having kernel panics (98% during or waking from sleep), I had (3) NEC 27" 2K monitors attached via three identical DisplayPort to USB3 cables to the GPU. I replaced (1) of those monitors with a 27" 5K ASD a year ago, but kernel panics continued at the same rate. Also installed all new Belkin monitor cables to the two remaining NECs a couple days ago - still had two panics since then during sleep - so not a cable issue. I should also mention that I had the same 3 NEC monitors connected to my 2012 Mac Pro for eight years, never a kernel panic.

BlueSnooze in your referenced article looks interesting?

The only peripheral I have connected directly to the Mac TB ports is a hub which I swapped out for another OWC hub which made no difference. I have also tried disconnecting the hub completely, but still had the same behavior.

There's something better than Bluesnoose, and that's Sleep Aid - give that a shot - it has the bluesnooze functionality, but it's notarised and will give you a very clear idea of what may be hapening during sleep that could be causing instability.

 

[choreo]

I will give it a try!

 

[choreo]

There's something better than Bluesnoose, and that's Sleep Aid - give that a shot - it has the bluesnooze functionality, but it's notarised and will give you a very clear idea of what may be hapening during sleep that could be causing instability.

Well, I guess moving my third monitor to the third bus did not fix my problem.

I installed Sleep Aid last night. I usually sleep myself between 6am and noon, but today I happened to wake up at 8am briefly and noticed my computer screens had woken up as I have a CCC Backup that takes place every morning at that time, and I could see the Desktop icons at that time - so no crash as of 8am.

When I finally got up at noon and touched the keyboard it was obvious the computer had restarted and asking me to login folllowed by the familiar Kernel Panic report. I opened Sleep Aid and this is what it showed - not sure what it means?

 

[choreo]

Does anyone have any idea what this error message might be indicating?

Error
Nov 10, 2023 at 5:31:55 PM
Screen event 35D90B59-0B65-4B35-A9B6-42FFC4A0FE4C / 59 is corrupted and is missing it's end date and time. Please contact Ohanaware.

Seems like every time I crash during sleep I get a similar message in Sleep Aid but with different Screen Event numbers? I contacted Ohanaware yesterday, but have not heard back.

 

[mattspace]

I'd personally disable all your scheduled tasks, and then disable the system's ability to run its own scheduled tasks, and then just see how long the system runs on JUST manual wake and sleep - it needs controlled elimination testing to isolate what is introducing the instability to the process.

If you get stability back, then try adding the system automatic tasks.

Are the kernel panic logs giving any indication as to the source? If it's on two different machines... what software have you got that's on both machines, and is edge-case / invasive? Adobe? I don't have any Adobe apps, and things are rock-sold on my machine (once I locked the sleep schedule).

 

[mattspace]

Oh and FYI my display config is 2x 1920x1200 24", 1x 1440p 27", all three on identical Lindy type-C to Displayport adapters, and identical Lindy 7m Displayport cables, so it's probably as similar a config to yours as you're likely to find here.

 

[choreo]

Are the kernel panic logs giving any indication as to the source? If it's on two different machines... what software have you got that's on both machines, and is edge-case / invasive? Adobe? I don't have any Adobe apps, and things are rock-sold on my machine (once I locked the sleep schedule).

Here is a screenshot of my most recent Kernel Panic. All of them look very similar...

 

[mattspace]

Here is a screenshot of my most recent Kernel Panic. All of them look very similar...

Is that the full file, or just the first x lines? You can select a word, then select all on the text and drag to the desktop to get a text clipping of the whole thing.

 

[choreo]

Is that the full file, or just the first x lines? You can select a word, then select all on the text and drag to the desktop to get a text clipping of the whole thing.

That is the whole thing - always short, similar to the example.

 

[mattspace]

Not a particularly helpful logfile. Tried Etrecheck Pro?

 

[choreo]

Not a particularly helpful logfile. Tried Etrecheck Pro?

Yes that is what Apple Tech Support had me run several times and send them the results on my first Mac Pro. They had me submitting those reports to Apple Engineering to track down the source and they finally decided it was a defective Logic Board (since they could not find anything). That is when Apple decided just to ship me an entirely new Mac Pro (even after the return period) to remedy the situation. A couple days after I got the new replacement machine the panics started again off and on. I seriously doubt there was anything wrong with the original Mac Pro (other than maybe something about that GPU not liking something I have?

These panics seem to concentrate at different times over the 3 years. Sometimes I can go almost a month without a single one, then I will maybe do a Security Update in the OS and they will start again (and vice-versa).

Last night I set Energy Saver Settings to "Prevent your Mac from automatically sleeping when the display is off" and no panics the past 15 hours. I may have to just start Shutting Down every night and turning the machine off when I am not using it.

 

[mattspace]

I may have to just start Shutting Down every night and turning the machine off when I am not using it.

I mean you really shouldn't - unless there's something janky in your environment, sleep is a normal, working feature for these machines.

Have you tried the strip down to factory config, Ventura install, etc?

 

[choreo]

I mean you really shouldn't - unless there's something janky in your environment, sleep is a normal, working feature for these machines.

Have you tried the strip down to factory config, Ventura install, etc?

I am considering just starting over from scratch - wiping the Startup SSD and installing fresh OS and Apps, but I will have to shut down my business for several days as I have an insane amount of settings and custom files to try and reconstruct. Since two Mac Pros have exhibited the exact same issues from Day One and few others with Mac Pros seem to be reporting similar behavior - it almost has to be something in my software files beings carried over from years of using Migration Assistant across machines and OS versions. Also some sketchy software installations like Capto that never went smoothly (and I could live without).

The reason I have been able to put this off for 3 years is because the panics rarely occur when I am working on paying jobs - mostly during sleep.

 

[mattspace]

I am considering just starting over from scratch - wiping the Startup SSD and installing fresh OS and Apps, but I will have to shut down my business for several days as I have an insane amount of settings and custom files to try and reconstruct.

I hear ya, but that's probably the only troubleshooting step you have left.

How much stuff could theoretically be done from within VMs? If you can containerise parts of the workflow that diddle with the system too invasively, you might be able to isolate the problem.

Since two Mac Pros have exhibited the exact same issues from Day One and few others with Mac Pros seem to be reporting similar behavior - it almost has to be something in my software files beings carried over from years of using Migration Assistant across machines and OS versions. Also some sketchy software installations like Capto that never went smoothly (and I could live without).

Have you tried using AppCleaner to remove any of this stuff?

The reason I have been able to put this off for 3 years is because the panics rarely occur when I am working on paying jobs - mostly during sleep.

I'm still partway through trying to find a long term solution to migrating from older systems and methods, and being stuck in that in-between phase is SO annoying that the temptation to stay with the working familiar can be overwhelming, but yeah, it really does sound like you'd be better off with a clean start. I'm at a year since my old Mac Pro started its instability.