Considering moving back to Apple Photos and using NAS as a backup

[SaxPlayer]

Years ago I used iPhoto for my images and really liked it. Then Apple ditched it in favour of the Photos app. I hated it and so moved away from it opting to use my Synology NAS to store all my images. It has software called Moments that works a bit like Photos and allows me to use my NAS as a cloud for my own images.

In theory this is fine, however it is a bit slow and while it's nice to have control over my images, over the years Apple has done what they always do and has improved Photos so that it's now a much better product. It's not perfect, but still decent from what I can tell.

So I'm thinking of going back to Photos, but I'd like to keep the images on my NAS as a completely independent backup of all my images. These will then be automatically backed up in the Cloud. Not that I'm paranoid or anything.

I have over 600GB of images(!) but a fast internet connection so I'm not overly concerned about the migration/upload. But I do have questions!

1. If I turn on Photo Library on my Mac and drag the images from my NAS in the Finder onto the icon in the Dock then what will it do with images if the meta data is missing? Does it use the file date? I have no idea what's happened with meta data on my NAS. I was using Image Capture to take photos off my phone so I assume it took the meta data with it? But just thought I'd ask (this isn't a biggie).

2. I don't have enough free space on my Mac for my entire library. Is using an external USB drive my only option? I realise that there's an "Optimise" option in Apple Photos, but presumably I need at least enough space for my entire library to get it to into Photos initially?

3. This is the biggie - How can I maintain a copy of my images on my NAS? I want this to be automatic, if possible. I have an unused Mac on my network that I could set to fire up and automatically sync Photos down from iCloud (I was thinking of doing this overnight) but then I need something to extract the images from wherever Photos puts them and copy just the high res original to a destination on my NAS for backup purposes.

Any general thoughts much appreciated, even if it's taking a different route to the one I've very roughly outlined above.

 

[ian87w]

Imo Photos is not a good idea if you have external or network drives, simply because of its one huge database library as one file. And I don’t know how iCloud Photos would behave if the library is on an external or networked drive. Seems like it will be a mess. And yes, to upload everything into iCloud Photo Library, you have to have the original photos in the main Photos library first. I’m guessing you can do it piece by piece if you don’t have enough storage on the main drive.

The optimize option is to have all your original files in iCloud first, and then iCloud will push an optimized version of the photos to the local Photos app.

If you still want to have the originals on your NAS, basically you have to duplicate your photos. One in the Photos library (synced to iCloud Photos) and one on your NAS. Might be a hassle to keep track.

Seems better to find an alternative solution.

 

[SaxPlayer]

Imo Photos is not a good idea if you have external or network drives, simply because of its one huge database library as one file. And I don’t know how iCloud Photos would behave if the library is on an external or networked drive. Seems like it will be a mess. And yes, to upload everything into iCloud Photo Library, you have to have the original photos in the main Photos library first. I’m guessing you can do it piece by piece if you don’t have enough storage on the main drive.

The optimize option is to have all your original files in iCloud first, and then iCloud will push an optimized version of the photos to the local Photos app.

If you still want to have the originals on your NAS, basically you have to duplicate your photos. One in the Photos library (synced to iCloud Photos) and one on your NAS. Might be a hassle to keep track.

Seems better to find an alternative solution.

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm keen to experiment with this and see where I go with it. I have 630GB free on my iMac Pro so your point about doing it in stages and then optimising might be a way to keep things local and avoid the need for an external drive. However, I know someone who has his Photo Library on an external drive and he hasn't mentioned any problems. I'm going to have a chat with him this weekend so will be sure to pin him down on that point. I appreciate an external drive wouldn't be as fast as an internal SSD but I would expect it to be usable. I agree, putting it on my local network is a really bad idea, but USB seems like it should be OK?

Your point about duplicating the photos for the NAS is spot on, that's why I'm looking for an automated process. If I can work out the folder where the images are stored then I can likely create a script that will watch that folder and upload new files to my NAS, You say it's one huge file, but of course it's not really - it's a package. It just looks like a single file in the Finder. On the filesystem it's really a full blown file structure. I imagine monitoring the "originals" folder in the package might do the trick.

 

[ian87w]

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm keen to experiment with this and see where I go with it. I have 630GB free on my iMac Pro so your point about doing it in stages and then optimising might be a way to keep things local and avoid the need for an external drive. However, I know someone who has his Photo Library on an external drive and he hasn't mentioned any problems. I'm going to have a chat with him this weekend so will be sure to pin him down on that point. I appreciate an external drive wouldn't be as fast as an internal SSD but I would expect it to be usable. I agree, putting it on my local network is a really bad idea, but USB seems like it should be OK?

Your point about duplicating the photos for the NAS is spot on, that's why I'm looking for an automated process. If I can work out the folder where the images are stored then I can likely create a script that will watch that folder and upload new files to my NAS, You say it's one huge file, but of course it's not really - it's a package. It just looks like a single file in the Finder. On the filesystem it's really a full blown file structure. I imagine monitoring the "originals" folder in the package might do the trick.

I'm not sure Photos library on external drives would sync with iCloud Photos.

Yes, Photos library is essentially a package. However, I'm not sure if there's a way to have a utility sync a folder inside that package as the OS expose it only as a single file.

Integration between Photos and iCloud sound nice and convenient, but their limitations to me is annoying.

It might be better to find an alternative, an image library organizer app that support plain file directory structure instead of a monolithic database like Photos. Some ideas would be Adobe Lightroom (not free) or Adobe Bridge. There's also a freeware called xnViewMP.

 

[HDFan]

have over 600GB of images

I have 630GB free on my iMac Pro so your point about doing it in stages and then optimising might be a way to keep things local and avoid the need for an external drive.

Not a good idea. You need to keep 20-30% of your boot disk free.

I know someone who has his Photo Library on an external drive and he hasn't mentioned any problems.

I keep my library on an external thunderbolt RAID and it works just fine.

Note that iCloud or a NAS are often not considered backups in the recommended 3-2-1 backup strategy.

Backup best practices: A NAS is not enough

Losing your data can suck. If you have the right backup strategy, though, recovery of lost data can be nearly painless. You do have the right backup strategy, right?

www.zdnet.com

 

[mikzn]

1. If I turn on Photo Library on my Mac and drag the images from my NAS in the Finder onto the icon in the Dock then what will it do with images if the meta data is missing? Does it use the file date? I have no idea what's happened with meta data on my NAS. I was using Image Capture to take photos off my phone so I assume it took the meta data with it? But just thought I'd ask (this isn't a biggie).

2. I don't have enough free space on my Mac for my entire library. Is using an external USB drive my only option? I realise that there's an "Optimise" option in Apple Photos, but presumably I need at least enough space for my entire library to get it to into Photos initially?

3. This is the biggie - How can I maintain a copy of my images on my NAS? I want this to be automatic, if possible. I have an unused Mac on my network that I could set to fire up and automatically sync Photos down from iCloud (I was thinking of doing this overnight) but then I need something to extract the images from wherever Photos puts them and copy just the high res original to a destination on my NAS for backup purposes.

Any general thoughts much appreciated, even if it's taking a different route to the one I've very roughly outlined above.

Yeah I was pretty upset at the iPhoto to Photos transition but got used to it after a while and like you said it did get better as time went on.

1. Why not test a few? drag a few images to the mac and into photos? - this will allow you to see if the meta is there and if the files are not reduced in quality? Also you could consider splitting your Photos into separate libraries / categories and keep the less used libraries on the external drive and one "most used" library on your Mac ?

2. I have been using iPhoto / Photos for 15 years or so and have about 200g of photos split into 3 libraries - 1) Work, 2) Personal/family, 3) Hiking - I keep the "work" library on my MBP and the other libraries on an external "media" drive - it is easy to back up the libraries automatically with CCC (Carbon Copy Cloner) using a folder back up script to a second back up drive and also 3rd to my Time Capsule (similar to an NAS) - no issues with any of the libraries wether on the MBP or running the other liraires off the external media drive

3. CCC works for me for regualr back ups - using a "folder to folder" Task (script) and have different days set up for backing up the libraries to and back up media drive on Sat/Wed and the Time capsule on Sunday - since the CCC back ups are incremental they usual take less than 3 min and the timecapsule back up 30 min (wireless)

FWIW - I also have a 4th "Photos Library" for managing videos to keep them separate from the photos and use PowerPhotos to manage / move Photos and Videos between the libraries if they end up in the wrong library and to have duplicates available in each library if needed

I don't use iCloud for backing up photos or syncing to iPhone or IPad Pro

that's my 2 cents . . .

 

[swandy]

Years ago I used iPhoto for my images and really liked it. Then Apple ditched it in favour of the Photos app. I hated it and so moved away from it opting to use my Synology NAS to store all my images. It has software called Moments that works a bit like Photos and allows me to use my NAS as a cloud for my own images.

In theory this is fine, however it is a bit slow and while it's nice to have control over my images, over the years Apple has done what they always do and has improved Photos so that it's now a much better product. It's not perfect, but still decent from what I can tell.

So I'm thinking of going back to Photos, but I'd like to keep the images on my NAS as a completely independent backup of all my images. These will then be automatically backed up in the Cloud. Not that I'm paranoid or anything.

I have over 600GB of images(!) but a fast internet connection so I'm not overly concerned about the migration/upload. But I do have questions!

1. If I turn on Photo Library on my Mac and drag the images from my NAS in the Finder onto the icon in the Dock then what will it do with images if the meta data is missing? Does it use the file date? I have no idea what's happened with meta data on my NAS. I was using Image Capture to take photos off my phone so I assume it took the meta data with it? But just thought I'd ask (this isn't a biggie).

2. I don't have enough free space on my Mac for my entire library. Is using an external USB drive my only option? I realise that there's an "Optimise" option in Apple Photos, but presumably I need at least enough space for my entire library to get it to into Photos initially?

3. This is the biggie - How can I maintain a copy of my images on my NAS? I want this to be automatic, if possible. I have an unused Mac on my network that I could set to fire up and automatically sync Photos down from iCloud (I was thinking of doing this overnight) but then I need something to extract the images from wherever Photos puts them and copy just the high res original to a destination on my NAS for backup purposes.

Any general thoughts much appreciated, even if it's taking a different route to the one I've very roughly outlined above.

Ok - I have been using Photos since it was introduced (replaced by beloved Aperture - may it RIP). And yes, it has improved greatly since it was first released. Many features have been improved and now it is very easy to use external editors for those processing tasks that the Photos can't do.
My Photos Library has always been on an external HD - it is currently around 740 GB - and I also use Carbon Copy Cloner to back it up to another external drive every so often - especially when I add a lot of photos or work on a large number of them. As was stated Apple Photos and using iCloud is not a true backup system, it is a syncing system. Works great if you want to (1) see all your photos on your iPhone/iPad and (2) you want your photos taken with your iPhone to also go directly back to your iMac. However, it is not a true backup because (1) any changes you make to photos shows up on all your connected iOS and macOS devices and (2) more importantly if you delete a photo, it is deleted everywhere (hence the need for another true backup or clone for safety).
I have my iMac preferences set so that all images are downloaded to the external drive where the library is located regardless of how they got to my Apple library - iPhone pictures, loaded from places like Facebook/Whatsapp, or copied from one of my cameras' digital memory cards. The iPhone and iPads have it set to maximize the storage space, so only thumbnails are kept on those devices until you wish to edit a photo or work on them in another app. Then the original size file is downloaded.

 

[Wonder Warthog]

For some stupid reason drag & drop from within Photos.app will only export a lower resolution image, if you want to export the original you have to select the photos then do Export > Export unmodified originals to get them.

So maybe it's better to either first put the photos on your NAS and from there import them to Photos on your Mac, or use the Synology photos app on iOS to automatically backup your photos to the NAS from the device (not sure if the new Photos app can do that, but Synology's previous Moments and Photo apps had that functionality).

 

[allenhsu]

Imo Photos is not a good idea if you have external or network drives, simply because of its one huge database library as one file. And I don’t know how iCloud Photos would behave if the library is on an external or networked drive. Seems like it will be a mess. And yes, to upload everything into iCloud Photo Library, you have to have the original photos in the main Photos library first. I’m guessing you can do it piece by piece if you don’t have enough storage on the main drive.

The optimize option is to have all your original files in iCloud first, and then iCloud will push an optimized version of the photos to the local Photos app.

If you still want to have the originals on your NAS, basically you have to duplicate your photos. One in the Photos library (synced to iCloud Photos) and one on your NAS. Might be a hassle to keep track.

Seems better to find an alternative solution.

FYI, actually it's not "one file". It's a directory with the extension ".photoslibrary" which can be opened by Photos directly. You can right click on it and "Show Package Content", then you can find all the original image files inside.

 

[schreierj]

My wife is in this exact situation - did you work it out? I have a 10TB synology RAID ready to go, but the Mac compatibility issue was not something we knew about before getting the RAID.

 

[SaxPlayer]

My wife is in this exact situation - did you work it out? I have a 10TB synology RAID ready to go, but the Mac compatibility issue was not something we knew about before getting the RAID.

In the end I decided to bite the bullet and just go for it. I was concerned about the space on my Mac so I'm copying over images from my NAS a year at a time (easy enough as I'd stored them by year on that device). It does eat up plenty of space on my Mac but then having "optimise" turned on gradually frees up some of the space. I started with 600GB free and at one stage my Mac had dropped down to just 40GB of free space, but it's now recovered back up to 372GB free and I've gone back 6 years so far.

I think the trick, for me, is to load a year every so often and then wait for optimise to recover the space. Eventually I'll have stored all my images in Photos.

I fully intend to keep my original images on the NAS as my own independent backup. I haven't looked yet, but I believe you can set up iOS to do that automatically to the Synology - that's the next thing I need to look at.

I have to say that while not perfect, using Photos is a faster experience than Synology Memories and much more usable.

Hope that helps!

 

[Ruggy]

The NAS is slow mostly because you are having to upload from the NAS to be able to view them over the net and most people know what their download speed is but are surprised when they find what the upload speed is limited to.
It can be difficult to use it as a viewer.
You can however back up your photos on the NAS by connecting an external drive and then taking that drive, plugging that into your mac and uploading to the cloud from there. You might well find days of difference in time.
It's really quick and easy to back up to an fast external SSD from your photos library in the cloud. It's just a few clicks every so often depending on how worried you are, and probably not 20 minutes before it's finished.
Using the cloud and backing up to an external fast drive is fairly painless.
But if you want something automatic there are programs that will use a 'geofence'.
That is, supposing you are taking your photos on the phone, it will detect when you are at home and automatically upload to your NAS.
The one I use and have recommended a few times- but I have no affiliation I just really like the app- is photosynch and this does some many useful things.

PhotoSync – Photo Transfer and Backup App | For iOS & Android - PhotoSync

The best wireless transfer solution for photo & video backups between iOS devices and Android, computer (PC & Mac), cloud / photo services and NAS devices.

www.photosync-app.com

 

[FreakinEurekan]

Sounds like you have a working solution now so that’s good. Personally, I use iCloud Photos Library and I have a Mac mini set up to sync that library, “Keep Originals” rather than Optimize. The Mac mini is backed up both to Time Machine and using a 3rd party cloud-based app, so I have two backups of all my photos; one offsite - plus of course the originals on iCloud. The Photos Library on that Mac mini is on a connected (USB, not NAS) Drobo.

 

[Wonder Warthog]

I switched to Synology Photo(s) a long time ago. After Apple's iPhotos and later Photos.app butchered and simply "lost" quite a few of my photos for inexplicable reasons, I just gave up. My photos are very dear to me, so I went back to the goold old folder based filing system where I have a folder for every year (or with very old scans for a decade), and within that folder I'd have folders with dates and names. These folders I put on my Synology NAS, so Synology Photos can scan them and give me a timeline view. But in case everything breaks I still have my folder based system that will never fail to work. I'm now using Apple's Photos app only to organize reference images for my drawings.