Control Apple Music on Apple TV without tv turned on

[341328]

It would be nice if Apple allowed the Apple TV screen content to mirror back to your phone so you could control Apple Music ie. listen to Apple TV via WiFi without using a phone or iPad via airplay. Which drains battery etc.

Or if when using airplay for music from iphone and a track is selected, that Apple TV could stream the Apple Music song from WiFi (on the Apple TV) and use the phone simply as a (smart) remote with an interface.

Currently the Remote app is limited ie. can’t visually select a new artist, playlist etc and it’s somewhat slow to respond especially on Apple Watch.

 

[priitv8]

You can control this from Music app on iPhone, imho.

 

[341328]

You can control this from Music app on iPhone, imho.

How?

I thought this only controls music playing on my phone; not the music app on Apple TV.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

It would be nice if Apple allowed the Apple TV screen content to mirror back to your phone so you could control Apple Music ie. listen to Apple TV via WiFi without using a phone or iPad via airplay. Which drains battery etc.

Or if when using airplay for music from iphone and a track is selected, that Apple TV could stream the Apple Music song from WiFi (on the Apple TV) and use the phone simply as a (smart) remote with an interface.

Currently the Remote app is limited ie. can’t visually select a new artist, playlist etc and it’s somewhat slow to respond especially on Apple Watch.

The remote app used to work as you are wishing here. Then Apple decided to "improve" it, so that it would basically be a taller & fatter copy of the screen-less remote that comes with TV. I completely agree that a better use of a real screen in your hands would be to mirror back at least the UI controls (on-screen lists, etc) for those that want to use the TV as a jukebox with TV off.

 

[priitv8]

How?

I thought this only controls music playing on my phone; not the music app on Apple TV.

Yes, AirPlaying to appleTV is what I meant.

 

[bucksaddle]

If you are on 11.2.5 and have an Apple TV 4 or 4K then it does exactly what the OP is looking for. In the Music app on an iOS device click on the small AirPlay icon, then select the Apple TV device lozenge from the new device list and go back to your music library. It is now showing you browsing your music on the Apple TV where you can browse artist, albums, playlists, etc and when you select a track it will start playing directly from the Apple TV.
No requirement to AirPlay from iOS device and the TV can be off.

 

[341328]

Yes, AirPlaying to appleTV is what I meant.

That's not my question.
[doublepost=1518476484][/doublepost]

If you are on 11.2.5 and have an Apple TV 4 or 4K then it does exactly what the OP is looking for. In the Music app on an iOS device click on the small AirPlay icon, then select the Apple TV device lozenge from the new device list and go back to your music library. It is now showing you browsing your music on the Apple TV where you can browse artist, albums, playlists, etc and when you select a track it will start playing directly from the Apple TV.
No requirement to AirPlay from iOS device and the TV can be off.

Great thanks.... so why does audio cut out sometimes if it's using wifi from Apple TV?

 

[iSayuSay]

Spotify Connect is the perfect feature for the occassion. It's a killer feature that Apple Music does not have. You can "throw" the audio to be played on Connect devices as if it's an Airplay (but no, you're just telling the Spotify app on the other end to play a particular music), it also works as remote controller for the ongoing playback.
On the flip side, Spotify does not currently have an Apple TV app to make this possible.

In the meantime, you can just Airplay the music through Apple TV, but you must have your TV turned on, unless you connect it to AV receiver, which can play the audio without turning on the TV.
It's kinda dumb though, if you have the TV turned on, you can just use the Music app on Apple TV, play your songs and save that iPhone's battery.

Or Spotify could've made an app for Apple TV.. This problem could've been solved much easier since Connect is the best solution for that.

TL'DR It's currently not possible to control the music with the tv turned off. All you can do is Airplay through Apple TV. Remote app on the iphone doesn't work to browse Apple Music, only ones that's in your playlist or itunes library.

 

[jjjjjooooo]

for those that want to use the TV as a jukebox with TV off.

The HomePod line will presumably be their solution to this problem. Or at least until they make their own wireless television—it could quickly wake and sleep the display by default like their other devices—while continuing to play audio—rather than pulling up screen savers.

It could maybe do this now, but you presumably couldn’t use HDMI-CEC. (Maybe HDMI 2.1 will address this.)

But your television’s remote may have a button (e.g. “PIC OFF”) to do this manually. (And there may be a settings option if not.)

 

[yayarod]

If you are on 11.2.5 and have an Apple TV 4 or 4K then it does exactly what the OP is looking for. In the Music app on an iOS device click on the small AirPlay icon, then select the Apple TV device lozenge from the new device list and go back to your music library. It is now showing you browsing your music on the Apple TV where you can browse artist, albums, playlists, etc and when you select a track it will start playing directly from the Apple TV.
No requirement to AirPlay from iOS device and the TV can be off.

[doublepost=1518958826][/doublepost]But be aware of the following detail: if your Apple TV is connected directly to the TV and not to a receiver the only way to use this long awaited new feature is to have an AirPort Express to send the audio to. The other way would be to buy a HDMI splitter to extract the audio but this to weird.
This fantastic new feature in iOS 11.2.5 has three benefits:
- TV can be off
- AirPlay not required. No dedicated battery drain on iPhone or iPad.
- AND something NOBODY mentioned: if you use good headphones you can notice that the ALL cabled music reproduction through the Apple TV has a slightly (by a very thin margin) better audio quality than using AirPlay.

 

[yayarod]

If you are on 11.2.5 and have an Apple TV 4 or 4K then it does exactly what the OP is looking for. In the Music app on an iOS device click on the small AirPlay icon, then select the Apple TV device lozenge from the new device list and go back to your music library. It is now showing you browsing your music on the Apple TV where you can browse artist, albums, playlists, etc and when you select a track it will start playing directly from the Apple TV.
No requirement to AirPlay from iOS device and the TV can be off.

You are not correct. If you start playing music through your iOS device and you then use the small AirPlay icon to change destinations the music is streamed to the Apple TV through AirPlay. You can check this using Control Center: iPhone -> Apple TV is shown. To ensure the music plays directly from the Apple TV you need to open Control Center first and open the Apple TV tile. Then when you return to Apple Music on your iPhone or iPad you will see Apple TV on the reproduction control at the bottom.
[doublepost=1518966934][/doublepost]And the TV can only be off if you have your Apple TV connected to a receiver and not to the TV directly.
If your Apple TV is connected to the TV directly you need a HDMI splitter to extract the audio channel to allow for music reproduction with TV off.
[doublepost=1518968205][/doublepost]The best way to hear Apple Music directly from the Apple TV with the TV off if you don’t have a receiver is to use an AirPort Express and send the sound from the Apple TV to the AirPort Express.
The benefit over using AirPlay are many as stated above, but just the finer sound quality (only noticeable through headphones and changing sources many times) is the main reason perfectionists would choose to go this way.

 

[yayarod]

You are not correct. If you start playing music through your iOS device and you then use the small AirPlay icon to change destinations the music is streamed to the Apple TV through AirPlay. You can check this using Control Center: iPhone -> Apple TV is shown. To ensure the music plays directly from the Apple TV you need to open Control Center first and open the Apple TV tile. Then when you return to Apple Music on your iPhone or iPad you will see Apple TV on the reproduction control at the bottom.
[doublepost=1518966934][/doublepost]And the TV can only be off if you have your Apple TV connected to a receiver and not to the TV directly.
If your Apple TV is connected to the TV directly you need a HDMI splitter to extract the audio channel to allow for music reproduction with TV off.
[doublepost=1518968205][/doublepost]The best way to hear Apple Music directly from the Apple TV with the TV off if you don’t have a receiver is to use an AirPort Express and send the sound from the Apple TV to the AirPort Express.
The benefit over using AirPlay are many as stated above, but just the finer sound quality (only noticeable through headphones and changing sources many times) is the main reason perfectionists would choose to go this way.

I apologize for the correction I made at the beginning. Now it is possible to change the device to control (HomePod or Apple TV) from within the Music app clicking on the red triangle.

 

[iSayuSay]

I'd like to make a correction to my previous post. You can actually control and browse the Music played from your Apple TV, and HomePod in this regard. Please be notified that this only works from Apple Music. If you have Spotify or anything else, you can stick to Airplay to your Apple TV. Not as good to be honest because it drains up your iPhone battery real good.

You just need an iOS device for this, connected to the same WiFi network on all your Apple TV or HomePod. You simply need to pull up Control Center from your iPhone/iPad.



3D Touch on Music section (or tap and hold for iPad) in the Control Center and you'll get this



This individual box will control Apple Music on each device. In my case I have the top section is for local playback (iPhone music playback), then in the middle is the BEDROOM section which is a Homepod, and the bottom one is BEDROOM is my Apple TV's name. You can tap each box and it'll bring you back to Music App but it's for each respective devices. Once you're inside you will be able to control any playback for that particular device. You can choose any songs, play/pause and adjust the volume too.

So yeah, no need to turning on your TV or browse the Music interface via your Siri Remote. And let me assure you this method is NOT AIRPLAY STREAMING. It's an individual playback operation. Just again, keep in mind:

1. You need an iOS device for remote control
2. Your devices need to be connected to the same WiFi network and using the same Apple ID.
3. You need to use Apple MUSIC, and Apple MUSIC only. Other audio sources has to go through Airplay. It's  after all!

Hope this helps and I apologize for any misinformation before.

 

[_oneworld_]

3D Touch on Music section (or tap and hold for iPad) in the Control Center and you'll get this

View attachment 761726

This individual box will control Apple Music on each device. In my case I have the top section is for local playback (iPhone music playback), then in the middle is the BEDROOM section which is a Homepod, and the bottom one is BEDROOM is my Apple TV's name. You can tap each box and it'll bring you back to Music App but it's for each respective devices. Once you're inside you will be able to control any playback for that particular device. You can choose any songs, play/pause and adjust the volume too.

So yeah, no need to turning on your TV or browse the Music interface via your Siri Remote. And let me assure you this method is NOT AIRPLAY STREAMING. It's an individual playback operation. Just again, keep in mind:

1. You need an iOS device for remote control
2. Your devices need to be connected to the same WiFi network and using the same Apple ID.
3. You need to use Apple MUSIC, and Apple MUSIC only. Other audio sources has to go through Airplay. It's  after all!

Hope this helps and I apologize for any misinformation before.

So glad I found this. Now using a good AirPlay Speaker (AudioPro A10) , playing from AppleTV and browsing on the iPad. TV and soundbar i standby mode saves some power.

The only problem I have is that I cannot chose output device on the iPad. The only listed device is the TV itself when I'm in the "TV box", while the iPad box lists all devices. (Same on iPhone). Music App on the TV show all my AirPort devices and I can chose the AirPlay speaker, and then turn off TV. Anyone else with this problem?

 

[iSayuSay]

So glad I found this. Now using a good AirPlay Speaker (AudioPro A10) , playing from AppleTV and browsing on the iPad. TV and soundbar i standby mode saves some power.

The only problem I have is that I cannot chose output device on the iPad. The only listed device is the TV itself when I'm in the "TV box", while the iPad box lists all devices. (Same on iPhone). Music App on the TV show all my AirPort devices and I can chose the AirPlay speaker, and then turn off TV. Anyone else with this problem?

Well glad I could help. All the Music Control Center does is managing the music playback on your ATV and HomePod, as long as it's online and share the same Apple ID. Audio output must be managed manually through your Apple TV, just like your iPhone and iPad could, but of course you'll need your TV turned on to do the switch.

Not really "a problem" since it's the actual limitation given the situation. You may control the music playback on your Apple TV with your phone, just not where to channel the sound.

PROTIP: You can also add "Apple TV Remote" through your Control Center. Really helps with the situation when you don't have the remote with you because your iPhone works as well. Basic music control works as well too.

 

[_oneworld_]

Not really "a problem" since it's the actual limitation given the situation. You may control the music playback on your Apple TV with your phone, just not where to channel the sound.

PROTIP: You can also add "Apple TV Remote" through your Control Center. Really helps with the situation when you don't have the remote with you because your iPhone works as well. Basic music control works as well too.

View attachment 819175

So it's by design? I wonder why it was made this way. And I _can_ chose where to channel the sound on the iPhone, if I chose the Apple TV (going from previous output). The box showing the AppleTV on the iPhone sure looks like it could have been a menu (like it is on the box showing the iPhone). It's a bit silly to turn on the TV, just to chose another AirPlay device (i e after the speaker has been connected to some other source).

I have the Apple TV Remote App, which is really helpful, since the Remote often is somewhere where I can't find it.

I had the idea that Siri on AppleTV could understand this, but I fail trying this. (It either starts playing songs with the name resembling the speaker or says I must use Siri Remote to adjust sound level).

The old Remote App (for connecting to iTunes on the Mac) works better in this way. You can browse your music AND you can chose where to output the sound. However it does not work with Apple Music (searching, playing Radio, ...), so it is limited to my local archive. I had hoped that it would get support for Apple Music, but no. (The mode when connecting to AppleTV is just a track pad, not very useful for music browsing on the iPhone,)

Can you chose sound out for the HomePod to some other AirPlay device? If so, how is this done?

 

[priitv8]

SThe old Remote App (for connecting to iTunes on the Mac) works better in this way. You can browse your music AND you can chose where to output the sound. However it does not work with Apple Music (searching, playing Radio, ...), so it is limited to my local archive. I had hoped that it would get support for Apple Music, but no. (The mode when connecting to AppleTV is just a track pad, not very useful for music browsing on the iPhone,)

But isn't the Apple Music integrated into the Music app?
How would having it in the iTunes Remote app make it different?
What I like most about the iTunes Remote app is that I can browse my iTunes library on my MacMini and set it to AirPlay to appleTV, without iPhone inbetween.

 

[_oneworld_]

But isn't the Apple Music integrated into the Music app?
How would having it in the iTunes Remote app make it different?
What I like most about the iTunes Remote app is that I can browse my iTunes library on my MacMini and set it to AirPlay to appleTV, without iPhone inbetween.

Yes it's integrated in the app, but not reachable/controllable from the iTunes Remote app, that has it's origin from pre AppleMusic. If the iTunes remote also could reach/search Apple Music in the same way iTunes (or Music app on ATV) can , I would have what I want:
browse my music AND Apple Music (with radio) from my iPhone and iPad but on the Mac
AND
chose channel for output for Mac on iPhone/iPad
(or replace Mac with AppleTV)

seems I have to chose between (remote use from iPad/iPhone)
being able to chose output speaker and be limited to my Library (on the mac)
play whatever I want from my music and Apple Music on the TV (using Music app on iThing) , but not being able to select speaker unless I turn on TV

 

[iSayuSay]

So it's by design? I wonder why it was made this way. And I _can_ chose where to channel the sound on the iPhone, if I chose the Apple TV (going from previous output). The box showing the AppleTV on the iPhone sure looks like it could have been a menu (like it is on the box showing the iPhone). It's a bit silly to turn on the TV, just to chose another AirPlay device (i e after the speaker has been connected to some other source).

I have the Apple TV Remote App, which is really helpful, since the Remote often is somewhere where I can't find it.

I had the idea that Siri on AppleTV could understand this, but I fail trying this. (It either starts playing songs with the name resembling the speaker or says I must use Siri Remote to adjust sound level).

The old Remote App (for connecting to iTunes on the Mac) works better in this way. You can browse your music AND you can chose where to output the sound. However it does not work with Apple Music (searching, playing Radio, ...), so it is limited to my local archive. I had hoped that it would get support for Apple Music, but no. (The mode when connecting to AppleTV is just a track pad, not very useful for music browsing on the iPhone,)

Can you chose sound out for the HomePod to some other AirPlay device? If so, how is this done?

Actually, your post made me recheck and apparently you CAN choose where to throw the audio from your Apple TV. My bad for not digging a bit deeper. I rarely throw playback from Apple TV because it's connected with HDMI through my AV receiver, which is the primary audio player in the house. So I wasn't aware that it can be done only by Control Center. Again, my apology.

Here's a few screenshots:
(Please take note that in my case BEDROOM = HomePod, and THEATER = AppleTV)

Choose Apple TV from Music Control Center, then select the "AirPlay" button as highlighted below. YES this is the same button you find on your iPhone music control.



From there you can choose where to throw the audio from Apple TV to your desired AirPlay speakers. I can't speak for Bluetooth speakers though as I don't have one here at home. You may try connecting a Bluetooth speaker to your Apple TV and see whether it appears on the list.



HomePod can also do the same thing. In short YES you may control the playback, choose any track, and AirPlay the sound anywhere inside your home network. Either from HomePod to ATV, and vise versa. AirPlay 2.0 compatible speakers also allow multi room playback. Here's a proof



Oh, and also Siri on HomePod can also help you throw the sound anywhere. Just make sure you rename your AirPlay devices accordingly. You may tell Siri to "play this on Theater Apple TV" or "play this on Kitchen HomePod" and it will throw the music accordingly.

Hope that clear things up for you.

 

[_oneworld_]

Actually, your post made me recheck and apparently you CAN choose where to throw the sound from your Apple TV via Control Center. My bad for not digging a bit deeper. I rarely throw sound from Apple TV because it's connected with HDMI through my AV receiver, which is the primary audio player in the house. So I wasn't aware that it can be done only by Control Center. Again, my apology.

Here's a few screenshots:
(Please take note that in my case BEDROOM = HomePod, and THEATER = AppleTV)

Choose Apple TV from Music Control Center, then select the "AirPlay" button as highlighted below. YES this is the same button you find on your iPhone music control.

View attachment 819259

From there you can choose where to throw the sound from Apple TV to your desired AirPlay speakers. I can't speak for Bluetooth speakers though as I don't have one here at home. You may try connecting a Bluetooth Speaker to your Apple TV and see whether it appears on the list.

View attachment 819257

HomePod can also do the same thing. In short YES you may control the playback, choose any track, and AirPlay the sound anywhere inside your home network. Either from HomePod to ATV, and vise versa. AirPlay 2.0 compatible speakers also allow multi room playback. Here's a proof

View attachment 819260

Oh, and also Siri on HomePod can also help you throw the sound anywhere. Just make sure you rename your AirPlay devices accordingly. You may tell Siri to "play this on Theater Apple TV" or "play this on Kitchen HomePod" and it will throw the music accordingly.

Hope that clear things up for you.

This is what I had expected. Unfortunately this does not work for me.

(TV is Whatever and iLike is the Mac that also runs a AirServer for AirPlay.)

The iPhone box in Music Control Center shows all devices

but the TV box does not:

All devices fully updated. So something IS buggy here.
Clearly the TV can see all devices, but will not show them in the Music Control Center.

 

[Ritsuka]

That feature requires airplay 2, if your device supports only airplay 1 it won't show in that list.

 

[iSayuSay]

This is what I had expected. Unfortunately this does not work for me.

(TV is Whatever and iLike is the Mac that also runs a AirServer for AirPlay.)

The iPhone box in Music Control Center shows all devices
View attachment 819269

but the TV box does not:
View attachment 819270


All devices fully updated. So something IS buggy here.
Clearly the TV can see all devices, but will not show them in the Music Control Center.

Yep read the post above me. Your “AudioPro” and “iLike” aren’t AirPlay 2.0 capable because you cannot see the checkbox sign with those two. Notice how they’re different from “Whatever” apple tv on your iPhone
View attachment 819269

Airplay 2.0 speakers allow you to choose freely for multiroom playback, while your AudioPro and iLike speaker aren’t, so each can only receive single throw but not streaming anywhere else. I know it’s weird since iTunes can stream into multiple non-airplay 2.0 speakers. Maybe it’s just another reason to force you upgrade? Lol

That’s why Control Center wouldn’t let you throw audio from apple tv onto your audiopro nor emulated airserver.

 

[_oneworld_]

Yep read the post above me. Your “AudioPro” isn’t AirPlay 2.0 yet because you cannot see the checkbox sign with that speaker, unlike “Whatever” apple tv on your iPhone

Airplay 2.0 speakers allow you to choose freely for multiroom playback, while your AudioPro speaker isnt, so it can only receive single throw but not streaming anywhere else. I know it’s weird since iTunes can stream into multiple non-airplay 2.0 speakers. Maybe it’s just another reason to force you upgrade? Lol

That’s why Control Center wouldn’t let you throw audio from apple tv onto your audiopro

I suppose your “iLike” apple tv is one of the older generation? It doesnt show checkbox either and so it’s not airplay 2.0 capable

( iLike is the Mac running AirServer which is AirPlay 1. )

Really silly that you cannot chose an Airplay 1 speaker via Music Control when controlling the AppleTV, while you can chose it on the TV. i really can't se why this limitation was set. I know I cannot chose multiple speaker, but you should at least be able to chose one.

And I just found out that my newly bought well sounding speaker will not ever run AirPlay 2.
:-(
New model coming this year will though...

Thank u all for the help.

 

[iSayuSay]

( iLike is the Mac running AirServer which is AirPlay 1. )

Really silly that you cannot chose an Airplay 1 speaker via Music Control when controlling the AppleTV, while you can chose it on the TV. i really can't se why this limitation was set. I know I cannot chose multiple speaker, but you should at least be able to chose one.

And I just found out that my newly bought well sounding speaker will not ever run AirPlay 2.
:-(
New model coming this year will though...

Thank u all for the help.

Yes I could see the inconsistency here and there.

Apple could’ve fix that with future iOS updates but I wouldn’t hold my breath for that. Apple tends to leave and ignore old standard (i.e: Airplay 1) behind

Well, at least you may now just remoting music on Apple TV from the iPhone, all without turning on the TV. It really is better than the old Remote app.

I really hope to see iTunes on the PC/Mac appears and be controlled via Control Center as well.

Enjoy!