MP 1,1-5,1 Could anyone guide a complete Mac Pro Novice (3.1)

[dUnKle]

I purchased myself a Mac Pro 3.1 a few months ago. I’m heavily invested in the Apple system but never used a desktop and if nothing else wanted to learn how to use them.

The only thing I did was replace the hard drives it came with with a couple of SSDs and then left it. Xmas came and went and I forgot all about the project until now. I didn’t even get round to putting an OS back on it !

Anyway, my first issue I think will be connecting it to my monitor. My old DVI equipped dell died and I replaced it with a nice new 4K LG model. But that does not have HDMI

just two hdmi and one display port

so would I have to look at upgrading graphics card ? (It’s the stock card in there currently)

again I’m a novice with macs. I could easily do a windows based PC but have no idea if upgrading is as simple for the Mac Pro

I have an NVidia GTX 770 in my PC. Could I use this ?

Also would this present me with any problems moving forward ?

As I understand it I can hack the machine to run versions of MacOs that are unsupported as a rule and I’d want / need to do this as I would want to run Office 365 as well as use Apple TV app which again as I understand i need a newer OS to do.

obviously I don’t want to be able to spend a fortune. I just want to be able to learn how to use it and how to upgrade it with a possible view to it being my desktop replacement. At very least want to be able to get Office and Apple TV working and be able use for my photos

Sorry if things seem bit muddled but hard to ask when I’m not fully sure what asking. Thanks in advance and all the best.

 

[casperes1996]

Upgrading a Mac Pro (not counting 2013 model) is as easy as working on any PC, yes. With a little of an exception, in that some PCIe cards will be unsupported. Also remember that this is a rather old computer and it’s, if memory serves, running PCIe 2.0; 4.1 and 5.1 are anyway.

In any case, If there are no ports on the stock GPU that fit your monitor, yes you’d need a new GPU. - Mind you, the older Mac Pros use a different graphics protocol for EFI graphics (EFI being the pre-boot environment, i.e. what PC people would call the BIOS). Therefore, if you switch out the GPU with one that has not been “flashed” to use the UGA graphics protocol instead of the newer GOP standard. - Mind you, the GPU will still work once the operating system is loaded and the drivers are running, but you won’t have a boot screen or access to any pre-boot environment. Which also means that FileVault encryption is something you cannot have turned on, since that will require entering a password before the operating system loads.

With that out of the way, I do believe the 7xx series of Nvidia GPUs are actually supported by Apple still, yes, but generally speaking, Apple hasn’t been on good terms with Nvidia for quite a while. Apple stopped using Nvidia GPUs or shipping default system drivers, I believe with the 7xx series being the last Nvidia GPU Apple ever used. Nvidia kept supplying their own drivers for a while, but they don’t work in newer releases of macOS anymore. If memory serves High Sierra is that latest release where you could get a 10 series Nvidia card to work, but no support further than that.
So your 770 would probably work, yes, but an AMD GPU is highly recommended for macOS.

 

[dUnKle]

Thank you. Appreciate the feedback

in your opinion is it worth spending money on to try and get working. As said if want Office 365 and Apple TV and that’s about it really.

Id not want to be spending a fortune as I just don’t think be cost effective.

If High Sierra would support all I need and my graphics card work then that would be fine. I’m not sure be worth spending a lot on it ?

 

[casperes1996]

Thank you. Appreciate the feedback

in your opinion is it worth spending money on to try and get working. As said if want Office 365 and Apple TV and that’s about it really.

Id not want to be spending a fortune as I just don’t think be cost effective.

If High Sierra would support all I need and my graphics card work then that would be fine. I’m not sure be worth spending a lot on it ?

That entirely depends. Do you think it’s fun to tinker with? You don’t have to spend a lot of money at all to get a Mac Pro in great condition. Lots of upgradeable parts, but it’s a rather old system still, though that also means that even top-tier parts for the time can be gotten relatively cheap.
And a upgraded Mac Pro 5.1 (I don’t know about the 3.1) can get close in performance to some 2015-16 Macs.

The biggest investment would be in time, not money.

I have no idea what the requirements are for Office - I don’t use Microsoft Office, I use Apple iWork, LaTeX, Maple etc. But as for the Apple TV app, it is only available on Catalina, and iTunes is the home for shows, movies, music, etc. prior to that.

But as for software support; for getting unsupported macOS releases on the machine, what you want is DosDude1. He’s made “patcher” tools for pretty much every release of macOS. So let’s say you want Mojave, you just find DosDude1‘s macOS Mojave Patcher. Read the website for the relevant installer to see systems it can patch and any potential warnings or things to be aware of like potential GPU support.

If I’m not completely bunkers, a 7xx series Nvidia GPU should work even with the latest macOS Catalina though, since Apple shipped those drivers themselves and included it in the OS, since they had Macs with those cards. But I refer you to DosDude1’s patcher tools for unsupported OS patching

 

[ippikiookami]

Just FYI, Office Microsoft 365 only supports Mojave and Catalina.

 

[dUnKle]

Cheers. Thanks all. I’m sure will have more questions. I’ll see if the 770 works and will see if can get Catalina to work. If I can that’s a bonus.

If not I’ll have a rethink. Maybe look at buying something newer that natively supports what’s need.

really appreciate the help and I’m sure will have more questions. Off to find the OS

 

[dUnKle]

A quick update. A closer look at the back of machine / graphics card shows that besides the DVI connection there are two smaller “square” connections,

are these “thunderbolt” connections and can these connect to display port / hdmi ?

 

[ippikiookami]

A quick update. A closer look at the back of machine / graphics card shows that besides the DVI connection there are two smaller “square” connections,

are these “thunderbolt” connections and can these connect to display port / hdmi ?

This should be helpful: https://everymac.com/systems/apple/...ics-cards-dvi-dual-link-mini-displayport.html

 

[dUnKle]

Cheers. Looking now

looking at the little sticker on the back it’s A1186 EMC 2180
And it says 8800GT

However I’m guessing it was upgraded as it’s an ati card inside

installed ishttps://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-hd-5870.c253

so they are Mini DisplayPort connections so that’s monitor sorted just need the cable

however seems not supported by dosdude patch

AMD/ATI Radeon HD 5xxx and 6xxx series graphics acceleration

 

[casperes1996]

A quick update. A closer look at the back of machine / graphics card shows that besides the DVI connection there are two smaller “square” connections,

are these “thunderbolt” connections and can these connect to display port / hdmi ?

Thunderbolt isn't per se a port. Thunderbolt 1 and 2 used the Mini Display Port connector and Thunderbolt 3 uses USB-C. It's highly unlikely that your Mac Pro has Thunderbolt; It's likely just Display Port

 

[dUnKle]

Thunderbolt isn't per se a port. Thunderbolt 1 and 2 used the Mini Display Port connector and Thunderbolt 3 uses USB-C. It's highly unlikely that your Mac Pro has Thunderbolt; It's likely just Display Port

thank you.

does seem to be 2 x mini display ports, just sadly the card would not be supported for Catalina etc.

With a budget of say 100 what graphics card would work ?

 

[dUnKle]

I’ll give the gtx 770 a go I think. See what happens.

 

[casperes1996]

With a budget of say 100 what graphics card would work ?

A Radeon RX 560 seems to be just about exactly $100. That should work
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I’ll give the gtx 770 a go I think. See what happens.

Should work up to and including Catalina, as long as the computer otherwise works with the patcher - Though again; No boot screen on any GPU not specifically made for early EFI, which basically boils down to "made for Mac Pro", so don't get scared if it doesn't show the Apple logo as it turns on. Once the OS is loaded it should be good.

 

[tsialex]

A Radeon RX 560 seems to be just about exactly $100. That should work

Not so fast with this recommendation.

MP3,1 Xeon processor don't support SSE4.2 that AMD GCN/Polaris/VEGA/NAVI drivers require after Sierra. The only way to use a RX 560 or any other GCN/Polaris/VEGA/NAVI GPU after Sierra with a MP3,1 is using a SSE4.2 emulator.

 

[dUnKle]

Not so fast with this recommendation.

MP3,1 Xeon processor don't support SSE4.2 that AMD Polaris/VEGA/NAVI drivers require after Sierra. The only way to use a RX 560 or any other Polaris/VEGA/NAVI GPU after Sierra with a MP3,1 is using a SSE4.2 emulator.

and that’s me well and truly lost

if I was to spend money I’d want something that was pretty much plug and play.

Another question, and again it’s one that may not make sense as I may have got wrong end of stick but

doing some research and it appears that the internal drive bays are only 3gb/s so would hamper ssd drives.

Read that you can get internal pcie card which drive van connect to which give the 6gb/s

now this is more out of interest that anything else, but can you boot from the drives connected to these cards ?

 

[tsialex]

and that’s me well and truly lost

if I was to spend money I’d want something that was pretty much plug and play.

Only NVIDIA Kepler GPUs, like GTX 680 Mac Edition, are truly plug and play with a MP3,1.

Another question, and again it’s one that may not make sense as I may have got wrong end of stick but

doing some research and it appears that the internal drive bays are only 3gb/s so would hamper ssd drives.

Read that you can get internal pcie card which drive van connect to which give the 6gb/s

now this is more out of interest that anything else, but can you boot from the drives connected to these cards ?

MP3,1/4,1/5,1 SATA ports are SATAII.

SATAIII PCIe cards are bootable with a MP3,1, but not all SATA cards are Mac Pro compatible. Use the search and find what works best for you, there are several thread about it. Search is your friend, all your questions would be answered several times before.

 

[casperes1996]

Not so fast with this recommendation.

MP3,1 Xeon processor don't support SSE4.2 that AMD Polaris/VEGA/NAVI drivers require after Sierra. The only way to use a RX 560 or any other Polaris/VEGA/NAVI GPU after Sierra with a MP3,1 is using a SSE4.2 emulator.

Did not know that; Thank you for stepping in there and correcting me.

I don't live in the US so I have no idea about dollar pricing for a lot of GPUs so just hunting around now; Only other thing I can find that seems decent for the price is on the used market on eBay, like an R9 285

 

[tsialex]

Did not know that; Thank you for stepping in there and correcting me.

I don't live in the US so I have no idea about dollar pricing for a lot of GPUs so just hunting around now; Only other thing I can find that seems decent for the price is on the used market on eBay, like an R9 285

Forgot to add GCN cards to the list, edited my previous post.

AMD drivers for all GCN/VEGA/NAVI cards require SSE4.2 after Sierra, or better wording it, all AMD cards released since HD 7000 require SSE4.2 with High Sierra and later macOS releases.

Only cards that don't require SSE4.2 with High Sierra are pre-HD 7000, these cards are not supported with Mojave anymore.

 

[kohlson]

internal drive bays are only 3gb/s so would hamper ssd drives.

I would put this on your list of "least of things to worry about."
Many, many cMP users (4 and 5,1) have SATA 3 SSDs (those 2.5-inch things) in their systems and enjoy dramatic performance improvements. While it's true that the plug speed is half of what a Sata3 would be, few applications depend on this. Instead, SSD characteristics such as near-zero seek times and latency (no waiting for the head and spinning disk to align on the right sector) really speed things up. Most all brand name Sata SSDs are plug and play. If you're not using the optical drive you can just use that cable connector - no mounting brackets required.

 

[dUnKle]

Thanks all

will have a play and see what happens

 

[casperes1996]

MouSSE sounds brilliant actually. - And is apparently part of the patcher tools that DosDude1 provide so should still be fairly simple to get a newer AMD GPU going after patching up the OS.
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Forgot to add GCN cards to the list, edited my previous post.

AMD drivers for all GCN/VEGA/NAVI cards require SSE4.2 after Sierra, or better wording it, all AMD cards released since HD 7000 require SSE4.2 with High Sierra and later macOS releases.

Only cards that don't require SSE4.2 with High Sierra are pre-HD 7000, these cards are not supported with Mojave anymore.

I see. Interesting; I read the MouSSE post you linked to though; Super interesting project - It does however seem like it's included in DosDude1's patchers so shouldn't really be that big an issue using a newer AMD GPU after patching up to a new OS with the patcher.