Could this be dried Liquid Crystals?

[yakult121]

Hello, I picked up a PowerBook 15" and nearly fainted from the vinegar smell emanating from the PowerBook. Screen is all yellowish-green with no images. There's quite a bit of white gunk on the keyboard and inner chassis.

I opened up the innards to find this - especially the lower left corner (between the hdd and the cd reader). Dried Liquid Crystals from the display?

 

[B S Magnet]

Hello, I picked up a PowerBook 15" and nearly fainted from the vinegar smell emanating from the PowerBook. Screen is all yellowish-green with no images. There's quite a bit of white gunk on the keyboard and inner chassis.

I opened up the innards to find this - especially the lower left corner (between the hdd and the cd reader). Dried Liquid Crystals from the display?

View attachment 1789525

Ick! I’m sorry you’re having to deal with this.

By the look of it and also by your description, it appears this PowerBook was stored in an extremely humid, hot, and possibly coastal environment for a long time. This isn’t uncommon in places where the conditions can be sub-tropical or tropical for long spans of the year (like southern Japan, the southeastern U.S., and so on).

Laptops kept in constantly steamy, hot storage can destroy not only the LCD, but it can also increase the reactivity and volatility of other chemicals (like solder) on the PCBs, the battery, and other components (and is why tech specs typically list the limits of storage conditions in terms of both temperature and humidity). The crystals are probably various salts which precipitated out of the humid air and bridged between metal (a conductor) and the semi-conducting board.

Whatever you do right now, don’t power it up!

The LCD will undoubtedly need to be replaced, as will the battery. The rest might be salvageable. Keep reading.

You’re going to need to completely disassemble this entire system and clean out every component as well as you can. This is going to be a multi-day process, so set aside time and space for it.

Stuff you’ll need:

• deionized/distilled water (probably a few litres worth, or a couple of gallons)
• a cheap, dollar-store new toothbrush
• a large bag of cheap rice
• 91% or 99% isopropyl alcohol (at least a litre, probably two or more)
• a large, flat rubbermaid-like container with a lid (like the kind you can slide underneath a bed)

First step: rinse and soak disassembled components in deionized/distilled water for a few minutes at a time. You should probably do this for a couple of hours, at minimum.

Next, you’ll want take a toothbrush and very gently remove the now-diluted, softened crystals. Repeat this until all visible residue is removed.

To dry the parts completely (over a couple of days), pour out the large bag of cheap rice into a large rubbermaid-type container and submerge all the just-wetted parts in that dry rice. (Rice is hydrophilic, so it will suck out moisture in tight, tiny places you might not be able to see.)

Next, using the cleaned out rubbermaid container, put the board and other connecting pieces in a bath of 91% or 99% alcohol (I prefer 99%, if you can get it) for about a day. Cover it. About halfway through (12hrs), open the container and gently agitate it side to side to release any dissolved oxidation/rust.

After a day, take out each part, inspecting them thoroughly, and use the cleaned toothbrush, soaked in fresh alcohol, to remove any stubborn areas remaining (again, very gently!) This stage is when you’ll find out whether any transistors/capacitors/resistors have lost their solder points. It is entirely possible some may fall off (which would portend that the board is ruined). Let everything dry thoroughly, maybe up to a day.

If, at this point, nothing has fallen off and nothing in your visual inspection revealed broken solder points or other unfixable corrosion, you should be able to reassemble everything (with a replacement LCD or connected to an external display).

 

[yakult121]

Thank you so much for your advice! I had bought a replacement LCD for this, definitely vastly underestimated the amount of cleaning up to do. You are right, I'm near the the coast (high humidity). I do see oxidation on one of the screws holding the logic board to the chassis.

I have some questions:

1. Plastic toothbrush - Will this kill the logic board? I'm uneasy with this cos I've previously killed a Windows laptop, with a plastic brush attached to a vacuum cleaner. I'm assuming it was killed by ESD with the plastic brush. I'm in a high humidity area but freak events happen (i guess)
2. Do the FPC (ribbon cables) go into the distilled water (and through the entire cleaning routine) as well?

 

[B S Magnet]

Thank you so much for your advice! I had bought a replacement LCD for this, definitely vastly underestimated the amount of cleaning up to do. You are right, I'm near the the coast (high humidity). I do see oxidation on one of the screws holding the logic board to the chassis.

I have some questions:

1. Plastic toothbrush - Will this kill the logic board? I'm uneasy with this cos I've previously killed a Windows laptop, with a plastic brush attached to a vacuum cleaner. I'm assuming it was killed by ESD with the plastic brush. I'm in a high humidity area but freak events happen (i guess)
2. Do the FPC (ribbon cables) go into the distilled water (and through the entire cleaning routine) as well?

You will want a soft bristle brush, like the kind for sensitive gums (avoid the ones with rubber “bristles”, like the ones used for massaging gums).

The idea here isn’t to be scrubbing your board so much as having the brush handy to help remove stubborn clumps which are already wetted/softened. When you use the brush, you want to be extremely gentle, especially around solder points. A good way to imagine it is the pressure you might use to clean a fresh abrasion… with a soft-bristle tooth brush: as lightly as possible.

As for the ribbon cables, I would inspect each one for signs of crusting. At the minimum, any residue should be pre-wetted first, even if you aren’t submerging them (much of a flat ribbon cable is and should still be sealed by the plastic polymer and, hopefully, unaffected by external environment). What I would do with all cables — with all electrical parts, in fact, is — during the alcohol cleaning stage — to submerge them in the alcohol and let them soak.

For something like a PowerBook, the aluminium shell itself shouldn’t need any alcohol, just a distilled water cleaning and thorough drying (in the rice). The stuff I would let soak in 91/99% isopropyl alcohol, in separate rounds, would be the logic board and also the topcase assembly, as there are a lot of contact points in the latter which, at a minimum, will have had direct exposure to the external elements. It will also probably settle out old dirt and grime from prior use.

After the alcohol baths (in effect, what they are), let these dry for a couple of days, just to be certain (sometimes, after a day, it can be good to rotate them to let out any places where residual alcohol might have pooled up. If, after all of this, you still see residue on the logic board, particularly around solder points, DC-in board, etc, perhaps wet a q-tip with alcohol and gently work those areas.

And, of course, get a good thermal paste before reassembling and powering it on (the GPU may use a thermal pad, but I have had success with the 15/17" PowerBooks just using fresh thermal paste. Hopefully, after all this revival work you should have a system which will power on again and still work.

Keep us posted!

 

[yakult121]

You will want a soft bristle brush, like the kind for sensitive gums (avoid the ones with rubber “bristles”, like the ones used for massaging gums).

The idea here isn’t to be scrubbing your board so much as having the brush handy to help remove stubborn clumps which are already wetted/softened. When you use the brush, you want to be extremely gentle, especially around solder points. A good way to imagine it is the pressure you might use to clean a fresh abrasion… with a soft-bristle tooth brush: as lightly as possible.

As for the ribbon cables, I would inspect each one for signs of crusting. At the minimum, any residue should be pre-wetted first, even if you aren’t submerging them (much of a flat ribbon cable is and should still be sealed by the plastic polymer and, hopefully, unaffected by external environment). What I would do with all cables — with all electrical parts, in fact, is — during the alcohol cleaning stage — to submerge them in the alcohol and let them soak.

For something like a PowerBook, the aluminium shell itself shouldn’t need any alcohol, just a distilled water cleaning and thorough drying (in the rice). The stuff I would let soak in 91/99% isopropyl alcohol, in separate rounds, would be the logic board and also the topcase assembly, as there are a lot of contact points in the latter which, at a minimum, will have had direct exposure to the external elements. It will also probably settle out old dirt and grime from prior use.

After the alcohol baths (in effect, what they are), let these dry for a couple of days, just to be certain (sometimes, after a day, it can be good to rotate them to let out any places where residual alcohol might have pooled up. If, after all of this, you still see residue on the logic board, particularly around solder points, DC-in board, etc, perhaps wet a q-tip with alcohol and gently work those areas.

And, of course, get a good thermal paste before reassembling and powering it on (the GPU may use a thermal pad, but I have had success with the 15/17" PowerBooks just using fresh thermal paste. Hopefully, after all this revival work you should have a system which will power on again and still work.

Keep us posted!

I sure will!

 

[Macbookprodude]

Depending on type of PowerBook G4, you might be better off getting a new one. Now, if its a 17 inch DLSD or 15 inch DLSD, spend time trying to get it to work.. But, if its the non-ddr2 versions, the lower versions can be found for good prices on ebay.

 

[Macbookprodude]

type of crystals: Berillium Crystals.

 

[B S Magnet]

Depending on type of PowerBook G4, you might be better off getting a new one. Now, if its a 17 inch DLSD or 15 inch DLSD, spend time trying to get it to work.. But, if its the non-ddr2 versions, the lower versions can be found for good prices on ebay.

This isn’t helpful.

 

[Macbookprodude]

This isn’t helpful.

Why not helpful ? If he is still having issues after spending an entire day.. that is a sign he is better off getting new machine or new parts. Depending on type of powerbook G4, it maybe better.. but if its DLSD, then I understand and he should put effort into fixing it. DLSD are hard to find, while the lower models are not.

 

[B S Magnet]

Why not helpful ? If he is still having issues after spending an entire day.. that is a sign he is better off getting new machine or new parts. Depending on type of powerbook G4, it maybe better.. but if its DLSD, then I understand and he should put effort into fixing it. DLSD are hard to find, while the lower models are not.

It’s not helpful because the original poster wants to try to fix the moisture damage and hopefully to get more use out of a computer they‘ve owned for a long time. I can’t speak for them, but there might even be some sentimental value associated with it.

On this forum, I advocate for the revival and restoration of vintage Mac equipment — to upcycle gear, not dump it to recycle or landfill. I understand this may not be what you’re here for, but when someone asks for community help on how to revive an old Mac, I am going to share the best advice based on my own experiences of reviving old gear. I believe this to be a worthwhile remit for the PowerPC forum.

One can go elsewhere to get the fatalistic advice to ditch and trash. That isn’t here and that isn’t why a lot of us continue to contribute here.

 

[Macbookprodude]

Understood - just the other day I helped someone revive a dead Pismo - told him to try to pull out the white connector to the Pram battery and it worked. I understand what you mean here.

 

[yakult121]

Hey chaps! Thanks for your comments! I recognize @Macbookprodude’s replies on being productive and not spend more time (and money) if the repair is not yielding results.
I also agree with @B S Magnet - we should recycle and upcycle whenever possible. Newer hardware can’t do some of the things I want... like bringing back my childhood... even for just that 1 hour a weekend.

 

[eyoungren]

Newer hardware can’t do some of the things I want... like bringing back my childhood... even for just that 1 hour a weekend.

To bring back my own childhood I would need a TRS-80 CoCo, a Commodore 64/128 and a 286 AT. Each model brings different memories of different ages. One day I may spend the money to track down a C64/128 as those are the two that got me through high school. Lots of old, but still cool games for those.

By the time the PowerPC Mac era came around I was much older. But if your attraction to these machines are as strong as mine is to those older computers (complete with the memories) then I get it.

So good luck on the restore.

 

[Macbookprodude]

Eyoungren - do you collect TI-99/4a ??

 

[TheShortTimer]

One can go elsewhere to get the fatalistic advice to ditch and trash. That isn’t here and that isn’t why a lot of us continue to contribute here.

Totally agree with you. Which is why it was jarring to see someone receiving erroneous advice in the Early Intel thread that "nothing even remotely new will work on" their 2010 MacBook and that it wasn't "up to today's tasks" when their machine could run Catalina (as does mine) or any number of Linux distros and perform "today's tasks."

 

[yakult121]

To bring back my own childhood I would need a TRS-80 CoCo, a Commodore 64/128 and a 286 AT. Each model brings different memories of different ages. One day I may spend the money to track down a C64/128 as those are the two that got me through high school. Lots of old, but still cool games for those.

By the time the PowerPC Mac era came around I was much older. But if your attraction to these machines are as strong as mine is to those older computers (complete with the memories) then I get it.

So good luck on the restore.

I didn't get started with TRS-80 and Commodores but with an IBM XT. I still have the machine but the CPU was removed somehow (i have no idea why). Considering to learn FPGA programming to emulate the 8088 DIP chip.

Have you started looking out for the C64/128?

 

[Macbookprodude]

DELETED

 

[Macbookprodude]

I didn't get started with TRS-80 and Commodores but with an IBM XT. I still have the machine but the CPU was removed somehow (i have no idea why). Considering to learn FPGA programming to emulate the 8088 DIP chip.

Have you started looking out for

To bring back my own childhood I would need a TRS-80 CoCo, a Commodore 64/128 and a 286 AT. Each model brings different memories of different ages. One day I may spend the money to track down a C64/128 as those are the two that got me through high school. Lots of old, but still cool games for those.

By the time the PowerPC Mac era came around I was much older. But if your attraction to these machines are as strong as mine is to those older computers (complete with the memories) then I get it.

So good luck on the restore.

ti 99 was also part of your childhood I assume.

 

[eyoungren]

I didn't get started with TRS-80 and Commodores but with an IBM XT. I still have the machine but the CPU was removed somehow (i have no idea why). Considering to learn FPGA programming to emulate the 8088 DIP chip.

Have you started looking out for the C64/128?

My 286 was bought for $100 off a local SysOp (System Operator) of a BBS (Bulletin Board System) I knew locally. That was 1990 and I was 19 at the time. So it was the last machine of my childhood.

My first full purchase of a PC though was a 486 in 1994. Both the 286 and 486 are long gone, but I still have the documentation and disks for the 486 (the 286 was homebuilt and came with no documentation). I mention the 486 because I had to return it right after I got it. Somewhere during shipping somebody swiped the 486 chip off the motherboard. Tech support couldn't believe it.

As far as the C64/128, no I have not started looking. That's been a thought for years but I can't really justify it yet. It would solely be bought for games. I suppose I could use it again for AABBS (All American BBS). I have a legit copy I bought way back in 1987 (with upgrades) but I have no landline and I doubt anyone would call in

At some point though I'll get one.

 

[Macbookprodude]

My 286 was bought for $100 off a local SysOp (System Operator) of a BBS (Bulletin Board System) I knew locally. That was 1990 and I was 19 at the time. So it was the last machine of my childhood.

My first full purchase of a PC though was a 486 in 1994. Both the 286 and 486 are long gone, but I still have the documentation and disks for the 486 (the 286 was homebuilt and came with no documentation). I mention the 486 because I had to return it right after I got it. Somewhere during shipping somebody swiped the 486 chip off the motherboard. Tech support couldn't believe it.

As far as the C64/128, no I have not started looking. That's been a thought for years but I can't really justify it yet. It would solely be bought for games. I suppose I could use it again for AABBS (All American BBS). I have a legit copy I bought way back in 1987 (with upgrades) but I have no landline and I doubt anyone would call in

At some point though I'll get one.

Have you ever played with a TI-99/4a quite more advanced than the commodore - it’s assembly language was really complex though when programming.

 

[yakult121]

As far as the C64/128, no I have not started looking. That's been a thought for years but I can't really justify it yet. It would solely be bought for games.

At some point though I'll get one.

YOLO!