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alookoachar

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Sep 14, 2019
3
0
Just copped the Sennheiser 650 headphones.

With the new and improved DAC/AMP on the MacBook Pros, would there be much of a difference between what happens on the laptop vs. a separate DAC/AMP setup? Curious if I need to purchase a separate system to power the 650s.

I'm not a hardcore audiophile - just someone that appreciates good headphones and good sound. I don't get into a lot of the details like most experts.

Any thoughts?
 

ApfelKuchen

macrumors 601
Aug 28, 2012
4,335
3,012
Between the coasts
My own thoughts are that the built-in audio will be fine, but each person has to do what pleases them.

I spent about 25 years recording and broadcasting live music, with a special emphasis on Classical. I certainly understand and appreciate quality audio, but have little interest in Audiophile. All too often it seems like trying to get from 99% to 100%.

While it's possible to train the human mind to greater levels of discernment, most people don't even know how to identify old fashion clipping distortion in an analog amp, no less aliasing error in an AD/DA conversion (which is far, far harder to identify). Sure, clipping sounds bad even to the untrained ear, but typically people don't know "clipping" is what's causing their substandard experience. If you do recognize clipping for what it is, you're able to address possible causes (like over-driving the input to the amp).

Higher sampling rates? To me, it's mostly a matter of "it's the thought that counts." The greatest benefit to higher sampling rates is to obtain more samples of high frequency waveforms - the 10 KHz - 20 KHz range (at a 44 KHz or 48 KHz sample rates, a 20 KHz overtone is sampled just a bit more than twice per cycle). Greater accuracy hardly matters if you, like most people (including me, due to my age and professional wear-and-tear), have too much hearing loss to detect much of anything in that top octave of the human hearing range.

Arguably, the presence/absence of data reduction (lossy vs lossless) will be far more noticeable than the benefits of extremely high sampling rates or the fine points of high-end DA converters (to those ears/minds trained to detect them), and your choice of DA converter will have no influence on that, as data reduction is baked into the source material.

And all varieties of connoisseurship tend to suffer from "confirmation bias" - knowing in advance that you're experiencing something "better" or "best" enhances your positive impression of the experience (and vice versa).

So, if spending extra (and complicating your setup with outboard equipment) contributes to greater enjoyment of the listening experience, go right ahead and go for it. But I'm willing to wager that in 99 out of 100 people, a true double-blind listening test will show that "built-in" is good enough.
 

Sanpete

macrumors 68040
Nov 17, 2016
3,695
1,665
Utah
When I checked a couple months ago, reports were that the Senn 650s are fine with the new output. They're rated at 300 ohms, so they should get 3V RMS. (The cutoff for the extra power is 150 ohms.)
 

Nocturnal-G

macrumors regular
Mar 18, 2012
129
87
You don't need a separate DAC/Amp... the internal DAC/Amp will drive those headphones just fine.
 

IJBrekke

macrumors 6502a
Oct 24, 2009
678
814
Long Beach, CA
My own thoughts are that the built-in audio will be fine, but each person has to do what pleases them.

I spent about 25 years recording and broadcasting live music, with a special emphasis on Classical. I certainly understand and appreciate quality audio, but have little interest in Audiophile. All too often it seems like trying to get from 99% to 100%.

While it's possible to train the human mind to greater levels of discernment, most people don't even know how to identify old fashion clipping distortion in an analog amp, no less aliasing error in an AD/DA conversion (which is far, far harder to identify). Sure, clipping sounds bad even to the untrained ear, but typically people don't know "clipping" is what's causing their substandard experience. If you do recognize clipping for what it is, you're able to address possible causes (like over-driving the input to the amp).

Higher sampling rates? To me, it's mostly a matter of "it's the thought that counts." The greatest benefit to higher sampling rates is to obtain more samples of high frequency waveforms - the 10 KHz - 20 KHz range (at a 44 KHz or 48 KHz sample rates, a 20 KHz overtone is sampled just a bit more than twice per cycle). Greater accuracy hardly matters if you, like most people (including me, due to my age and professional wear-and-tear), have too much hearing loss to detect much of anything in that top octave of the human hearing range.

Arguably, the presence/absence of data reduction (lossy vs lossless) will be far more noticeable than the benefits of extremely high sampling rates or the fine points of high-end DA converters (to those ears/minds trained to detect them), and your choice of DA converter will have no influence on that, as data reduction is baked into the source material.

And all varieties of connoisseurship tend to suffer from "confirmation bias" - knowing in advance that you're experiencing something "better" or "best" enhances your positive impression of the experience (and vice versa).

So, if spending extra (and complicating your setup with outboard equipment) contributes to greater enjoyment of the listening experience, go right ahead and go for it. But I'm willing to wager that in 99 out of 100 people, a true double-blind listening test will show that "built-in" is good enough.
I teach a music tech class, and I have never pointed out to the students that the gains of an increased sample rate in the 16-20 kHz range are largely negated by hearing loss (natural or otherwise) for most adults. Thanks for your post, it will inform and improve my next lecture on the topic!
 
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BrianBaughn

macrumors G3
Feb 13, 2011
9,722
2,464
Baltimore, Maryland
You can take someone's word for it or do your own comparison testing…and to test you'd probably have to make a couple of (hopefully returnable) purchases: a USB audio interface and likely a headphone amp.

Be aware that a lot of USB audio devices will have their own knob for volume and you won't be able to use the macOS volume adjustment.
 

Kafka

macrumors 6502
Mar 10, 2011
342
46
I am not an expert but I really do appreciate good sound, and I know I my ears are not bad at all. My Beyer DT 1990 are great on my 16" M1 Pro, it was not the case on my former M1 MBA. I feel no need for anything external.
 

elbert

Suspended
Jun 17, 2018
131
71
If you are asking then it means you want to buy a seperate setup just for fun...
 

Kafka

macrumors 6502
Mar 10, 2011
342
46
The question being "do I need to purchase a separate system to power the 650s", the answer is simple: no you don't.
 
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