Deleting iMessages does not remove them from Cloud

[raziel101]

I use iMessage on my iPhone and iPad. Both are currently on 15.4.1

If I delete a message on my iPhone, it is removed from my iPad and vice versa. If I toggle off Messages in iCloud and turn it back on, the deleted message returns.

I assumed there is an issue with my iCloud so I turned off iMessage on my iPhone and iPad, deleted the iMessage Data in iCloud and kept Message in the Cloud turned off for 30 days (Apple will delete all iMessage data in the cloud after 30 days after you disable it). During that 30 day window I also deleted all messages off the iPad.

Yesterday I turned Message in the cloud back on. All the messages on my phone uploaded to the Cloud and they also downloaded to my iPad. Deleting messages syncs across my Devices however, toggling Messages o off/on in iCloud results in the deleted message being downloaded.

I have had this issue with each iOS 15 update since December 2021. Is anyone else able to reproduce this on their end? Why does Apple keep the message on the cloud even when I want to delete it?

 

[papbot]

I use iMessage on my iPhone and iPad. Both are currently on 15.4.1

If I delete a message on my iPhone, it is removed from my iPad and vice versa. If I toggle off Messages in iCloud and turn it back on, the deleted message returns.

I assumed there is an issue with my iCloud so I turned off iMessage on my iPhone and iPad, deleted the iMessage Data in iCloud and kept Message in the Cloud turned off for 30 days (Apple will delete all iMessage data in the cloud after 30 days after you disable it). During that 30 day window I also deleted all messages off the iPad.

Yesterday I turned Message in the cloud back on. All the messages on my phone uploaded to the Cloud and they also downloaded to my iPad. Deleting messages syncs across my Devices however, toggling Messages o off/on in iCloud results in the deleted message being downloaded.

I have had this issue with each iOS 15 update since December 2021. Is anyone else able to reproduce this on their end? Why does Apple keep the message on the cloud even when I want to delete it?

I’ve had messages that were deleted last year reappear in the last few months either after a restart or software update. This matches what I’ve experienced with certain other iCloud items. I’ve come to accept that nothing in iCloud is ever truly deleted. They all will reappear from time to time. Signing out of iCloud and then back in will bring a lot of stuff back.

 

[jav6454]

I have yet to see a deleted conversation or texts back from the dead on iMessage and iCloud.

 

[papbot]

I have yet to see a deleted conversation or texts back from the dead on iMessage and iCloud.

You will. I’ve seen messages, notifications, even reminders. I can’t remember If I’ve ever seen emails, that may be a different system. I just assume that nothing is completely cleared from every server out there no matter what the user does.

 

[raziel101]

I have yet to see a deleted conversation or texts back from the dead on iMessage and iCloud.

Are you able to try what I did? If you have two devices, delete a message on the first device. After confirming it is removed from the second device, toggle message in cloud off/on on the second device and wait a couple minutes to see if the delete message returns.

I am able to replicate this 100% of the time since December 2021.

 

[Mlrollin91]

Are you able to try what I did? If you have two devices, delete a message on the first device. After confirming it is removed from the second device, toggle message in cloud off/on on the second device and wait a couple minutes to see if the delete message returns.

I am able to replicate this 100% of the time since December 2021.

I mean, this makes sense as to why its happening. You need to allow time to pass so its deleted from iCloud. If I delete a message then immediately toggle iCloud off then back on, the message still technically exists in iCloud. It has not had any opportunity to permanently delete. By deleting the message and than immediately toggling off iCloud is preventing the sync to occur.

Have you deleted the message, waited a few hours, toggled iCloud and seen if the message has returned? That would be a test worth trying, not what you are currently doing.

Edit: Plus it only returns to the device that iCloud was toggled on, proving that its a syncing issue. The sync was interrupted. Nothing else.

 

[raziel101]

I mean, this makes sense as to why its happening. You need to allow time to pass so its deleted from iCloud. If I delete a message then immediately toggle iCloud off then back on, the message still technically exists in iCloud. It has not had any opportunity to permanently delete. By deleting the message and than immediately toggling off iCloud is preventing the sync to occur.

Have you deleted the message, waited a few hours, toggled iCloud and seen if the message has returned? That would be a test worth trying, not what you are currently doing.

Edit: Plus it only returns to the device that iCloud was toggled on, proving that its a syncing issue. The sync was interrupted. Nothing else.

I've waited 48 hours and still the deleted message returned after toggling messaged in iCloud off/on. Messages I deleted 3 months ago have also returned.

 

[Mlrollin91]

I've waited 48 hours and still the deleted message returned after toggling messaged in iCloud off/on. Messages I deleted 3 months ago have also returned.

You deleted the message, waited three months, then toggled iCloud off/on and the message returned? I have a very hard time believing that.

I've never had a delete message return unless I deleted a message and then immediately restarted my device. Only then did it appear because it did not "delete" properly before the sync was interrupted by me restarting the device. I have 10 iCloud devices linked to the same account, all using messages in the Cloud, and have never had messages reappear.

 

[papbot]

I've waited 48 hours and still the deleted message returned after toggling messaged in iCloud off/on. Messages I deleted 3 months ago have also returned.

I believe the last time I ran into this a couple months ago was when I signed out of iCloud on a device to resolve an issue which it did. But after everything was set back up messages I had deleted some time last year were back in the conversation list. Toggling Messages off and on would probably have the same effect - you’re making iCloud pull from some “hidden” server and return some of your messages to you.

 

[raziel101]

You delete the message, waited three months, then toggled iCloud off/on and the message returned? I have a very hard time believing that.

I've never had a delete message return unless I deleted a message and then immediately restarted my device. Only then did it appear because it did not "delete" properly before the sync was interrupted by me restarting the device. I have 10 iCloud devices linked to the same account, all using messages in the Cloud, and have never had messages reappear.

It's true. I deleted several iMessage threads at the end of September. In late December, I had to get my battery replaced so I did a back up to my Mac and restored from the back up after I got the battery replaced, and the Messages from September returned.

Since then, I have been trying to figure out the issue. I've even been talking with Apple since March of this year every 2 weeks so they can collect logs, and they still cannot figure out the issue. So I'm on here trying to see if other users are having a similar issue.

 

[raziel101]

I believe the last time I ran into this a couple months ago was when I signed out of iCloud on a device to resolve an issue which it did. But after everything was set back up messages I had deleted some time last year were back in the conversation list. Toggling Messages off and on would probably have the same effect - you’re making iCloud pull from some “hidden” server and return some of your messages to you.

Isn't this a privacy/security issue? I understand messages in the cloud has end to end encryption, but if I choose to delete something off of iCloud, I expect it to be deleted.

 

[papbot]

Isn't this a privacy/security issue? I understand messaged in the cloud has end to end encryption, but if I choose to delete something off of iCloud, I expect it to be deleted.

I believe it is an issue. Just not one that bothers me much. I’ve joke with others on Apple’s forums that the police don’t have to get the passcode just have the owners restart the device and they’ll see all the communication the person has had. Why this happens I have no idea, and it’s not often but I’ve been using these now for 15 years and over those years similar things have occurred, not often but they tend to make an impression. And again it seems to live up to the axiom that absolutely nothing is ever truly deleted. Anyone using such devices should always have that in mind.

 

[antiprotest]

That's just how iCloud works. Apple is not very good with cloud stuff. I still have iCloud tabs I've closed from at least three years ago.

 

[raziel101]

That's just how iCloud works. Apple is not very good with cloud stuff. I still have iCloud tabs I've closed from at least three years ago.

I would think Messages contain (at least for some) a lot more sensitive data than iCloud tabs. So to say that is just how iCloud works doesn't sit well with me.

 

[antiprotest]

I would think Messages contain (at least for some) a lot more sensitive data than iCloud tabs. So to say that is just how iCloud works doesn't sit well with me.

And it shouldn't. I mean that's just how it works as in murderers just kill people. I didn't mean it's ok. Apple deserves to be sued. But in any case their cloud people have always been incompetent. You are not doing anything wrong on your end and there might be nothing you can do to fix this. That's my point.

 

[jav6454]

Are you able to try what I did? If you have two devices, delete a message on the first device. After confirming it is removed from the second device, toggle message in cloud off/on on the second device and wait a couple minutes to see if the delete message returns.

I am able to replicate this 100% of the time since December 2021.

Yes I have. I have a MBP with iMessage and an iPhone XS on my account. If I delete a message, it is gone.

 

[jav6454]

You will. I’ve seen messages, notifications, even reminders. I can’t remember If I’ve ever seen emails, that may be a different system. I just assume that nothing is completely cleared from every server out there no matter what the user does.

Reminders and notifications? Nope. Messages, also gone. I can't over state how I delete entire conversations or specific messages and those never come back.

 

[rocketbuc]

I have a similar problem. Did turn off iMessage in the Cloud and now I am waiting for 30 days until (hopefully) all old messages are deleted. In my case the messages were not showing on the device but took significant storage on iCloud.

 

[randomgeeza]

It happens to me all the time. Sometimes they sync, sometimes they don't, sometimes they re-appear?

 

[papbot]

Reminders and notifications? Nope. Messages, also gone. I can't over state how I delete entire conversations or specific messages and those never come back.

The fact that myself and others have had conversations reappear shows that they are stored somewhere and for some unknown reason are gathered and displayed on our devices again. I can’t over state that this happens rarely but over the years it happens even if you haven’t seen it. Odds are you will at some point. We have.

I always delete conversations as soon as that specific conversation is done. The only messages or conversations that are ever displayed on my devices for more than one day are from my wife. I’m not one to have thousands of emails or messages clogging up my devices or accounts. I delete immediately. Doesn’t matter, they occasionally reappear. And I’m actually ok with that but others might not be.

 

[contacos]

iCloud Messages has always been an issue for me unfortunately. For instance, on my iPhone, there are photo attachments which refuse to delete. I click the delete button but nothing happens. The same photos do not exist on my iPad. Then I delete all message attachments on my iPad and suddenly a video I sent last September pops up (it wasnt there before) and I can’t delete it either. When I check my Mac, there is suddenly a whole bunch of different attachments with many refusing to delete too.

I also left iCloud messages deactivated for over a month. Once enabled the ***** video from last September (which refuses to delete) pops up on the iPhone again!

I hope iOS 16 finally included better settings to organize iMessage stuff

 

[raziel101]

iCloud Messages has always been an issue for me unfortunately. For instance, on my iPhone, there are photo attachments which refuse to delete. I click the delete button but nothing happens. The same photos do not exist on my iPad. Then I delete all message attachments on my iPad and suddenly a video I sent last September pops up (it wasnt there before) and I can’t delete it either. When I check my Mac, there is suddenly a whole bunch of different attachments with many refusing to delete too.

I also left iCloud messages deactivated for over a month. Once enabled the ***** video from last September (which refuses to delete) pops up on the iPhone again!

I hope iOS 16 finally included better settings to organize iMessage stuff

I have the same issue with being unable to delete some attachments from iMessage threads. In addition, the storage management of iMessages is messed up; file size fluctuates daily but the fact my data is not being purged from the server when I delete it bothers me.

I'm probably going to turn off messages in the cloud and forget this feature altogether. I have another call with Apple Support later today (been having bi weekly calls with them since March) but it just seems to be a waste of time.

 

[now i see it]

The solution to this problem is - don’t use iMessages in iCloud. Toggle it off. Use it how it used to be with no iCloud syncing.

 

[rocketbuc]

Is this feature working fine for everybody except for few people?
Turning it off should be the last resort, it is a pity that one cannot enjoy this useful feature.

 

[cynics]

This won't apply to everyone but its an issue that can occur that gives similar symptoms.

iCloud will send messages to all your iCloud devices. If a device is off/unreachable iCloud will retain the message until it sync's with iCloud Messages. If the message is deleted it will never get delivered to that device. It will stay on the iCloud server waiting until its reachable for 30 days before it removed from the server.

However if one of your devices (generally one that is rarely used therefore you don't notice) isn't syncing properly with iCloud all the other devices could be affected.

At that point anything can happen, it might not get deleted off all the devices. It might pop back up on devices it was deleted off of (keeping in mind its on the device with the flighty iCloud sync). The message might just be massively delayed to a particular device so it was in transit (regardless of how long) when you delete it, so it deletes off your device, then its finally delivered to another device THEN its resent back to the device it was deleted off of..

This is common across all sync'ing services (if you've used an imap email service there is a good chance you've deleted an email, it disappears and then pops right back up, sync issues).

Logging out of iCloud and back in on all your devices generally sorts this out. I can say right now as I type this my iPad, iPhone, MBP and iMac are perfectly sync'd, no issues at all so it is capable of functioning properly. If you wish to diagnose the issue, turn on ALL your devices (check iCloud devices to make sure there isn't something you are forgetting about) and start sending messages and deleting old messages from each device. Pay attention to all your devices and see if one sending slow or not at all, or receiving slow or not at all. Sometimes its obvious, I looked at my iPad a while back and the messages weren't even close to the other devices. Relogging iCloud and everything and the messages it was missing sync'd up, it didn't delete the messages that I deleted on other devices though. Sometimes its not obvious, its just a dick behind your back.

You see this with toggles in the settings in iOS too. When you turn a toggle on/off in settings and it flips right back, there is either another device that is effected by this toggle and it couldn't be reached or your device got a message from iCloud its still on before the server got the message to turn it off. A lot of time if you ignore it flipping back on it will toggle back off. Frustrating for sure....

Hopefully this helps someone.