Design request: Japanese character in flame

[Mal]

I would like to make a simple request for an image that I would like to use for an iPod decal. I would simply like the Japanese character for flame, 火, written as if it were made out of fire, on a black background. There's no particular hurry, but I also can't plan to compensate you in any way other than 2 internets and a cookie, so I appreciate it if anyone would be willing to help me out!

jW

 

[wheezy]

What makes you lucky enough to be moving to Chiba? I'm kinda jealous of that bit of news....

 

[Mal]

Missions work. I've been saying "soon" for a very long time, though. Shouldn't be later than this summer though.

jW

 

[Kwill]

I would simply like the Japanese character for flame, 火, written as if it were made out of fire, on a black background.... can't plan to compensate you in any way other than 2 internets and a cookie.

Prepare to roast marshmallows... This forum delivers.

P.S. I would like a 5lb box of 20s if anyone is in the giving mood.

 

[citizenzen]

Prepare to roast marshmallows... This forum delivers.

I'm such a whore... at least on quiet, holiday, Wednesday afternoons.

 

[Mal]

Hey, thanks, and I don't want to seem ungrateful (I just might use that if no one can make what I'm imagining), but it's not exactly what I was thinking.

Basically, you can see that the symbol is made of four strokes. I was thinking that each of those would appear to be a tongue of flame, and that the background would just be completely black. Like I said, I really wish I could just make this, so I'm grateful for the time you were willing to put into trying that. If you or someone would be willing to give a go at the design I'm suggesting, I'd be really grateful for that too.

jW

 

[MechaSpanky]

Manners

Mal,

Just a little advice, not to be mean or anything but when I first read your "request" it sounded a bit snobby. It sounds like the good people here "owed" it to you to spend time designing something for you, and for free! You aren't "requesting" something, you are asking someone to do something for you. You should be humble when you ask for something. When you ask someone to do something for you, tone matters a lot. I don't just mean the tone of your voice, I mean the overall tone of your sentence or sentences, created by the words that you choose. In America, people often forget the basics of how to ask for something politely. Probably because people like to be casual in America. There is nothing wrong with being casual but there is a fine line between casual and rude.

The old saying "You'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar" comes to mind. If you would like to ask for help, then by all means ask nicely. I know a guy who often says "why don't I let you give me a ride". What is that all about? Like he is the king or something? How rude! Many people are put off by his "requests" and he often doesn't get what he "requests". It always amazes me how many people talk like this and don't even know it.

Many designers like myself are put off by people who ask if we can do something for free. It is like our skills are not valuable. I don't ask a lawyer to give me free legal advice. If I asked a doctor to look at something for free, he or she would tell me to buzz off. I'm not saying that there aren't some people who wouldn't mind helping you but asking nicely always improves your chances.

I live in Japan and I have been here for over 4 years. If you are indeed planning to move to Chiba, this is a very important lesson you should learn. Manners are more important here and Japanese are a lot more formal than Westerners (well they are more formal than Americans and Canadians and I would say more formal than British but not by much)! Knowing how to ask is important here (as well doing things or saying things that can be perceived as arrogant will not get you very far here, and I can guarantee that many things that you don't even know that you do will be perceived as rude or arrogant here). I wish you best of luck in getting your "fire" kanji and I wish you the best of luck if you make it to Chiba.

MechaSpanky

 

[Mal]

I'm very sorry if my post came across as snobby or rude, it certainly was never meant to! I tried to be very clear that I did not expect anything, and that it was simply a humble request (that terminology to me does not imply any sense of being owed, so again, I apologize if it came across that way). I have always tried to be both humble and reciprocal if possible (i.e., I attempt to help out as many people as I can with what little skill I have, in order to make these types of posts not be one-sided demands for help without ever offering anything myself).

I just reread my first post, and I honestly can't see how it would come across as snobby or entitled, but by all means, please pm me if you would like to point out anything more specific I could have done differently, especially if it would be meaningful to the Japanese point of view. I have tried to prepare myself for the Japanese culture, but I'm well aware I do not fully understand it or probably ever will.

jW

 

[citizenzen]

LOL!

I knew there'd be changes!

So not only am I a whore, I suck **** wrong.

Oh well, it's all part of the trade.


Edit: Sorry Mal, that I couldn't match the picture in your mind's eye. But I'm going to bow out here and not go down the path of client changes. It was an interesting diversion on a quiet afternoon. But giving BJs away for free can get old pretty fast.

 

[Mal]

citizenzen, I'm having a hard time determining if you're upset or just amusingly sarcastic (if a bit crude in your humor). I really do appreciate what you did, and there's no reason for you to feel a need to do anything more, so thank you.

jW

 

[citizenzen]

citizenzen, I'm having a hard time determining if you're upset or just amusingly sarcastic (if a bit crude in your humor).

I was shooting for amusingly sarcastic... if a little crude.

It's my usual M.O.

Clients like you have a way of bringing that out of me.

 

[emdotdee]

Me thinks MechaSpanky could do with some looser fitting underwear and citizenzen, he didn't want changes. What you created wasn't what he asked for.

Mal, I tried to have a go at creating it but even using a tutorial it was a complete failure so I gave up. Just hope that someone comes along who knows what they are doing with Photoshop to make something up for you.

 

[tyguy2021]

Heres my go at it, tell me what you think.

I also uploaded a zip file that contains a high-rez version, should be great for printing.

The high-rez versian can be found here. http://www.mediafire.com/?8dnodum049c7x9x

 

[citizenzen]

What you created wasn't what he asked for.

Do you think that's the role of a designer... to create what exists in the client's mind's eye?

A good designer knows how to go beyond that.

A good client does too.

 

[Mal]

Heres my go at it, tell me what you think.

I also uploaded a zip file that contains a high-rez version, should be great for printing.

The high-rez versian can be found here. http://www.mediafire.com/?8dnodum049c7x9x

Hey, thanks! That looks pretty good.

As promised:

To everyone else, I don't want a big debate about what's right or not right to begin here. Let's just keep this thread to what it's intended for, not some big discussion about all of the nuances of asking designers for help.

jW

 

[Apple OC]

Mal,

Just a little advice, not to be mean or anything but when I first read your "request" it sounded a bit snobby. It sounds like the good people here "owed" it to you to spend time designing something for you, and for free! You aren't "requesting" something, you are asking someone to do something for you. You should be humble when you ask for something. When you ask someone to do something for you, tone matters a lot. I don't just mean the tone of your voice, I mean the overall tone of your sentence or sentences, created by the words that you choose. In America, people often forget the basics of how to ask for something politely. Probably because people like to be casual in America. There is nothing wrong with being casual but there is a fine line between casual and rude.

The old saying "You'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar" comes to mind. If you would like to ask for help, then by all means ask nicely. I know a guy who often says "why don't I let you give me a ride". What is that all about? Like he is the king or something? How rude! Many people are put off by his "requests" and he often doesn't get what he "requests". It always amazes me how many people talk like this and don't even know it.

Many designers like myself are put off by people who ask if we can do something for free. It is like our skills are not valuable. I don't ask a lawyer to give me free legal advice. If I asked a doctor to look at something for free, he or she would tell me to buzz off. I'm not saying that there aren't some people who wouldn't mind helping you but asking nicely always improves your chances.

I live in Japan and I have been here for over 4 years. If you are indeed planning to move to Chiba, this is a very important lesson you should learn. Manners are more important here and Japanese are a lot more formal than Westerners (well they are more formal than Americans and Canadians and I would say more formal than British but not by much)! Knowing how to ask is important here (as well doing things or saying things that can be perceived as arrogant will not get you very far here, and I can guarantee that many things that you don't even know that you do will be perceived as rude or arrogant here). I wish you best of luck in getting your "fire" kanji and I wish you the best of luck if you make it to Chiba.

MechaSpanky

talk about a long winded lecture for nothing. If you go back and read his request ... he was quite humble ... I work in Graphic Arts and Printing and have seen my share of Prima-dona designers ... wow

 

[beowulf70]

Mal,

Just a little advice, not to be mean or anything but when I first read your "request" it sounded a bit snobby. It sounds like the good people here "owed" it to you to spend time designing something for you, and for free! You aren't "requesting" something, you are asking someone to do something for you. You should be humble when you ask for something. When you ask someone to do something for you, tone matters a lot. I don't just mean the tone of your voice, I mean the overall tone of your sentence or sentences, created by the words that you choose. In America, people often forget the basics of how to ask for something politely. Probably because people like to be casual in America. There is nothing wrong with being casual but there is a fine line between casual and rude.

The old saying "You'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar" comes to mind. If you would like to ask for help, then by all means ask nicely. I know a guy who often says "why don't I let you give me a ride". What is that all about? Like he is the king or something? How rude! Many people are put off by his "requests" and he often doesn't get what he "requests". It always amazes me how many people talk like this and don't even know it.

Many designers like myself are put off by people who ask if we can do something for free. It is like our skills are not valuable. I don't ask a lawyer to give me free legal advice. If I asked a doctor to look at something for free, he or she would tell me to buzz off. I'm not saying that there aren't some people who wouldn't mind helping you but asking nicely always improves your chances.

I live in Japan and I have been here for over 4 years. If you are indeed planning to move to Chiba, this is a very important lesson you should learn. Manners are more important here and Japanese are a lot more formal than Westerners (well they are more formal than Americans and Canadians and I would say more formal than British but not by much)! Knowing how to ask is important here (as well doing things or saying things that can be perceived as arrogant will not get you very far here, and I can guarantee that many things that you don't even know that you do will be perceived as rude or arrogant here). I wish you best of luck in getting your "fire" kanji and I wish you the best of luck if you make it to Chiba.

MechaSpanky

Very well put. Far too many users here undervalue design. I might help someone out if asked politely and knew that the individual was truly grateful and fully understood the process to achieve a researched, tested, crafted, refined, and produced result...

EDIT: To be fair, the original request was not really snobby, not in my opinion anyway.

 

[MechaSpanky]

I apologize, I reread the original post and I now realize that I was mistaken in my original post. I used the word "snobby" when I should have used another word (although at the time I'm not sure which word would suffice, maybe clueless). I know that many of you here will disagree with me but the phrase "a simple request" is insulting. It is never that simple and if I ask for something, using the word "simple" isn't good (if it was that simple you should have done it yourself). It also sounds like you are looking down on designers by using the word simple.

I still stand by my original assertion that if you want something for free, you should ask nicely. The original poster didn't willingly ask rudely but to many people, it would be regarded as rude. The topic of this forum is "Design and Graphics", not "Free Design Work". Sure I think it is great if someone has the time to do something for nothing but to request it seems a bit much to me. I don't blame the original poster for asking but I just wanted to point out that to me, they could have worded it a little better.

Sorry Apple OC if that sounds too prima donna-ish to you. I have worked in graphics and printing myself for a long time and I am not a prima donna just because I think that people who want something for free should ask nicely. I would like to request that you simply come over to my house and mow my yard. I can't pay you anything but I will give you a glass of fresh lemonade. Does that make you want to come over and do it for me, probably not. I don't mind helping people out but for I do expect that they ask nicely.

 

[Mal]

Just to show you all that I'm not too lazy, I finally managed to spend some time learning Pixelmator, and have produced something of my own that's very similar to what I saw in my minds eye, though not as clean as someone more talented could have done. Just thought I'd show it off here.

Of note, it was "simple" once I got some insight into how to do it. I simply grabbed some stock images of fires, lassoed out a few tongues of flame, and then cleaned up the edges and rotated/resized them to form the character. Would've been much more difficult with a more complex character, but it really was simple to do here.

jW

 

[Tomorrow]

I know that many of you here will disagree with me but the phrase "a simple request" is insulting. It is never that simple and if I ask for something, using the word "simple" isn't good (if it was that simple you should have done it yourself). It also sounds like you are looking down on designers by using the word simple.

I completely disagree - seems to me OP's post called the request "simple" because it would be simple to someone who knows what they're doing. And since he feels like it's an area outside his expertise, he's asking for help from someone who can do it easily.

I still stand by my original assertion that if you want something for free, you should ask nicely. The original poster didn't willingly ask rudely but to many people, it would be regarded as rude. The topic of this forum is "Design and Graphics", not "Free Design Work".

He wasn't rude at all - he made very clear that he would appreciate any help he could get.

This is a web forum. It's not like he went to your business website, solicited your services personally, and requested that you do the work for free - anybody who felt compelled to help was welcome to do so, and others could go politely about their business. I saw no reason in his post for you to feel put out by his request. If you don't want to help him out, don't help him out - simple as that.

I'm a professional engineer and have answered many questions on this and other forums - things that, while simple to me, were not so simple to the person making the request. And it was always my prerogative not to help out if I felt the request was too much. I just never chose to lambaste someone for asking nicely.