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mamlukman

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 5, 2013
41
1
For every step forward, I take 5 steps back. I'll start with the immediate problem, then go back to the beginning of the nightmare 4 days ago. I see a bunch of similar problems in threads online, but not my particular one.

Immediate problem: I have a Mac Pro (G5), mid-2012. [PLEASE don't question whether this or that works. It does.] I installed Sierra on an internal SSD 480. All went well, supposedly. But when it restarted it asked me for a password [which it never did before]. There was a old password to make changes, so I gave it that and it seemed to be happy. But NONE of the 4 internal disks are mounted--including the startup disk. NONE of the old applications are in the little row at the bottom [that's technical talk--my level], just ones that apparently came with the system. There is NO disk utility. It's like I'm in an alternate universe--and perhaps I am. Perhaps there is some sort of partition I'm unaware of filtering out all my old stuff.

Now back to the beginning of the long saga...I was operating El Capitan for years. Then I thought I should upgrade (some Safari sites weren't working) before the new OS came out in the fall, which I understand they are charging $$ for. I was afraid Sierra and High Sierra might disappear as downloads.

There was only the system, applications, etc. on my startup disk, SSD 480. So I used carbon copy cloner to copy it all to an external HD. Success. But the backup wouldn't boot the computer. So I changed from a USB to a Firewire cable, and voila, it booted the computer.

Next step: Get into the App Store to get the download. This took more than a day, including an 1 1/2 chat with Apple support. After an hour and a half (!) she got me into the App Store. [All this is because Apple assumes everyone knows all the jargon and is intimately familiar with all sorts of equipment and OS. I am not.] So I downloaded Sierra to the internal SSD 480 and overwrote the existing El Capitan.

Re-started the computer, and everything was great--everything was there, it worked fine. After making sure of that, I did another carbon copy clone to the same backup hard drive, after deleting the El Capitan backup. Again, everything fine. Everything there, boots up with Firewire only.

Then the internal SSD 480 with the new Sierra refused to boot the computer. So I thought, OK, I'll just re-install. It refused to do it--it wouldn't recognize the HD. It was invisible to the installer. So I thought, OK, I'll reformat the SSD 480. I did, following ALL the rules. It allowed me to re-install Sierra at that point, but of course now I was installing it into a blank disk, not overwriting an existing system. At some point it asked me what stuff I wanted to transfer from my backup disk, but of course it didn't explain anything. So I didn't transfer applications, for example.

So now "about this Mac" says that, yes, I'm running Sierra from the invisible SSD 480. And all the other internal HD are invisible as well. And yes, I could run Sierra (which has all the old applications, etc.) from my external HD connected with Firewire, but there is no backup to it, and it is much slower than the internal SSD 480. Maybe I should just boot up from the backup HD, re-format the SSD 480, and use carbon copy cloner to transfer the entire backup back to the SSD? What could go wrong? ha ha ha

I've left out huge chunks of all this, but it's been a 4-day adventure I don't want to re-live. And of course I'm not done--which is why I'm here. If you reply, please keep it jargon free. Otherwise, it will be like Chinese (and I don't speak Chinese). The irony here is that I was a Mac systems administrator in the early 90s when things were simpler.
 

reukiodo

macrumors 6502
Nov 22, 2013
420
220
Earth
First, please post screenshots, because your 'jargon' doesn't make much sense. When you say your disks are invisible, is it juat because they aren't showing up on your desktop? Do they show up in Finder?

If you know your external drive is working fine, why not just clone it to your internal SSD? That's what backups are for.
 

jbarley

macrumors 601
Jul 1, 2006
4,023
1,895
Vancouver Island
First, please post screenshots, because your 'jargon' doesn't make much sense. When you say your disks are invisible, is it juat because they aren't showing up on your desktop? Do they show up in Finder?

If you know your external drive is working fine, why not just clone it to your internal SSD? That's what backups are for.
Starting with the part about the "Mac Pro (G5)".:D
 

keysofanxiety

macrumors G3
Nov 23, 2011
9,539
25,302
^^^
Come on guys, play nice :p

I think OP means MacBook Pro 2012. And if that’s the case, I think the OP’s issue is the HDD SATA cable as it’s a common point of failure.

EDIT: keep reading if you want to see just how bad my instinct is.
 
Last edited:

mamlukman

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 5, 2013
41
1
Starting with the part about the "Mac Pro (G5)".:D
upload_2019-8-20_19-36-38.png

There's the screen shot...you see all that empty blue space....that's where the internal disk images should be.
But disk utility (opened from the external drive backup) shows they are there...
upload_2019-8-20_19-38-41.png

The finder icon shows most of them, but not the SSD 480, which is the startup disk....the "WDC WD10EACS" IS invisible--I made it that way years ago. So that's OK.
upload_2019-8-20_19-40-23.png


And I always thought of it as a G5, but according to Wikipedia it's something called "Ivy Bridge," which I've never heard of. In any case, it's mid-2012 and a giant desktop machine.

Why don't I just clone the backup that's working fine onto the SSD 480? That was going to be my next step. But everything I have done up to this point has just made things worse--as I said, one step forward, five backwards. If I thought it would work with no further issues, I'd do it in a heartbeat!

Also, to show the level of problems I spent literally DAYS dealing with: 1) the "notification code" Apple sends to add to your password to get into the App Store. I had no idea what that was, how they were sending it, or where to look for it. Even with the Apple support person on the phone it took us 1 1/2 hours to figure it out. It was sending the "notification code" to my landline. Who knew? 2) When I finally got to the stage in installation where the installer showed a bunch of drives and asked you to select one, I spent over a day on that one because it didn't show the SSD 480. That's when I kept re-initializing the SSD 480 over and over in the hopes that the installer would see it. Want to know what was ACTUALLY the issue? The SSD 480 was there all along, but I didn't know how to get to it. I tried swiping. Nothing. I tried grabbing the right border and pulling. Nothing. I tried clicking. Nothing. I tried everything I could think of....and then a day+ later I thought, "what the hell, why not try the direction arrows on the keyboard." Poof...there it was. Now, yes, I'm an idiot. But you know what? Apple could EASILY have added arrows to the left and right of the window where the drives are displayed. But they didn't. They expect the user to KNOW. Well, I DIDN'T know. And there were absolutely no instructions.
 

keysofanxiety

macrumors G3
Nov 23, 2011
9,539
25,302
Okay, it’s definitely not a MacBook Pro lol. Completely misunderstood the original issue.

OP: when you’re in Finder (click your Desktop) press “Finder” at the top left (next to the Apple logo) and select Preferences.

Tick the option for “hard disks” where it says “show these items on desktop”.
 
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mamlukman

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 5, 2013
41
1
Tick the option for “hard disks” where it says “show these items on desktop”.

Yep. It figures. Something any idiot would know...but I didn't. Click the box, they appear magically. Thank you!
Now I have to ask myself (and I would ask Apple if I could....) "Why on earth would the default be NOT to show the internal hard disks???" That's just crazy. And how are you supposed to know where the magic box is hidden to reveal them???
upload_2019-8-20_21-15-28.png


So...I used the Migration Asst. to move the applications over, but of course they don't appear in the dock, even though on installation I checked "move system information" (or something like that...). So now I've added the applications to the dock. But on experiementing, I see that EVERY SINGLE ONE of them is asking for the original authorization code... there MUST be a simple way to to this other than scouring my bookshelf for that code for the program I bought in 2006. Any thoughts on that one? Also I see that music, photos, extensions, bookmarks, etc. did not copy over. I can of course find those and copy them, but again, there MUST be an easy way to do that. I just have no idea what it is. I've looked at a number of web sites about Migration Asst. and they all say things like "It's as easy as can be..." Well, no, it's not! Help!!!
 

mamlukman

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 5, 2013
41
1
Yep. It figures. Something any idiot would know...but I didn't. Click the box, they appear magically. Thank you!
Now I have to ask myself (and I would ask Apple if I could....) "Why on earth would the default be NOT to show the internal hard disks???" That's just crazy. And how are you supposed to know where the magic box is hidden to reveal them???
View attachment 853982

So...I used the Migration Asst. to move the applications over, but of course they don't appear in the dock, even though on installation I checked "move system information" (or something like that...). So now I've added the applications to the dock. But on experiementing, I see that EVERY SINGLE ONE of them is asking for the original authorization code... there MUST be a simple way to to this other than scouring my bookshelf for that code for the program I bought in 2006. Any thoughts on that one? Also I see that music, photos, extensions, bookmarks, etc. did not copy over. I can of course find those and copy them, but again, there MUST be an easy way to do that. I just have no idea what it is. I've looked at a number of web sites about Migration Asst. and they all say things like "It's as easy as can be..." Well, no, it's not! Help!!!
 

mamlukman

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 5, 2013
41
1
Day 5: The nightmare continues. OK, after realizing that SO much was missing from applications, etc. and that it would take days to return to normal, I decided to erase the SSD 480 (which I was booting from, and where everything was messed up because I installed a new system on an empty drive). So I erased the SSD 480 and then used Carbon Copy Cloner to move the entire new Sierra system (which was working fine on the backup) back to the SSD 480. Sounds, easy, right? Not a chance.

So when I woke up this morning, CCC told me it had successfully copied everything at 2:30 AM. Great. But the SSD 480 image wasn't on the desktop. Gone… Disk Utilities didn't see it, and I tried the trick under finder to toggle between "show hard drives" and not. Nothing. Poof. Gone. So I did the logical (?) thing. I shut down and re-booted. No SSD 480. But now I was booting from an older system on a different disk. The backup Sierra disk I was just looking at was no longer listed in "startup disks". So I tried booting from yet another startup disk with a different system. Again, no SSD 480, and no Sierra backup disk listed. But I'm a persistent guy. So I rebooted again and again. I tried holding the option key down to choose the disk to boot from (3x so far) and it didn't work.

But on the 6th or 7th try re-booting, poof, the SSD 480 re-appeared on the desktop. Magic. I hadn't done anything different, it just decided to show up. And several re-boots later, it's still showing up. But neither the SSD 480 nor the backup Sierra disk show up as "startup disks" in preferences. So I can't start the computer with them. But they are there. And the backup Sierra disk was working just fine an hour ago. Frustrated? Why yes, I am.

So I'm going to cross my fingers, re-start umpteen times holding down the option key and hoping against hope the SSD 480 magically appears.

By the way, I've looked up this specific problem (startup disks not appearing in "startup disks" in preferences) and this issue dates back to….wait for it….2009!!! So this has been a problem for thousands of people for 10 years and Apple has done…nothing? Extraordinary.
 

mamlukman

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 5, 2013
41
1
Day 5: The nightmare continues. OK, after realizing that SO much was missing from applications, etc. and that it would take days to return to normal, I decided to erase the SSD 480 (which I was booting from, and where everything was messed up because I installed a new system on an empty drive). So I erased the SSD 480 and then used Carbon Copy Cloner to move the entire new Sierra system (which was working fine on the backup) back to the SSD 480. Sounds, easy, right? Not a chance.

So when I woke up this morning, CCC told me it had successfully copied everything at 2:30 AM. Great. But the SSD 480 image wasn't on the desktop. Gone… Disk Utilities didn't see it, and I tried the trick under finder to toggle between "show hard drives" and not. Nothing. Poof. Gone. So I did the logical (?) thing. I shut down and re-booted. No SSD 480. But now I was booting from an older system on a different disk. The backup Sierra disk I was just looking at was no longer listed in "startup disks". So I tried booting from yet another startup disk with a different system. Again, no SSD 480, and no Sierra backup disk listed. But I'm a persistent guy. So I rebooted again and again. I tried holding the option key down to choose the disk to boot from (3x so far) and it didn't work.

But on the 6th or 7th try re-booting, poof, the SSD 480 re-appeared on the desktop. Magic. I hadn't done anything different, it just decided to show up. And several re-boots later, it's still showing up. But neither the SSD 480 nor the backup Sierra disk show up as "startup disks" in preferences. So I can't start the computer with them. But they are there. And the backup Sierra disk was working just fine an hour ago. Frustrated? Why yes, I am.

So I'm going to cross my fingers, re-start umpteen times holding down the option key and hoping against hope the SSD 480 magically appears.

By the way, I've looked up this specific problem (startup disks not appearing in "startup disks" in preferences) and this issue dates back to….wait for it….2009!!! So this has been a problem for thousands of people for 10 years and Apple has done…nothing? Extraordinary.
 

mamlukman

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 5, 2013
41
1
I woke up from the nightmare!!!

God took mercy on me, and the first time I re-started and held down the "option" key, the full range of bootable disks appeared. I picked SD 480, and it booted just fine. So problem solved....for now. I'm sure not going to shut down the computer, and I am dreading a power outage that will force me to go through any of this again, although I have now chosen the SD 480 as the default startup disk in preferences.

Thank you to all those who offered suggestions.

But why Apple can't make all this simpler (an arrow here and there, a short explanation in a pop-up menu...) I don't know. Remember when the Apple slogan for the Macintosh was "The computer for the rest of us"? I bought my first Mac in Feb. 1986 when I was working for a small computer hardware company that actually manufactured peripherals for the Mac. In the early 1990s I was in charge of a Mac network, and I was able to take apart, fix, and put back together any of the current models. And I knew most of the software inside and out. But 25+ years later? Hopeless.
 
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