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Desperately need a new computer, but my eyes are not cooperative

K

Kupo12

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Oct 1, 2021
29
17
I'm running on fumes with a 2010 iMac. It is long over-due for an upgrade, but I have had crazy issues with eye fatigue/straining/burning when I try to use other monitors. I thought at first it might be a transition thing that I need to get used to, but I've spent an entire month trying to get used to a new monitor (I've tried probably a dozen and even springing for the studio display) and my eyes just can't seem to accept a new display.

I know matte coated monitors are at least part of the problem and make things difficult. I don't have these issues when I use my iPhone 12, iPad, or even while watching TV. Yet every. single. monitor I use gives me grief. I've even tried out the Alogic Clarity with the same frustrations. I've tried reducing the resolution to be 1440p like what I have, I've tried changing color profiles, I have f.lux installed, reduce the backlight, I have had my eyes checked. I just don't get it. I can use my iMac all day for 16 hours without any fatigue, but everything else I've used just kills my eyes withinin 20 minutes.

Furthermore, I don't know if new monitors just have more vibrant colors or what, but that shouldn't matter because I tried changing the display to just black and white and it made no difference. Are there new coatings on apple monitors today that they didn't have before or something? The hard drive on my 2010 iMac is about to fail for the second time and I really would like to get a new computer rather than have to drag out using this old, Frankensteined, obsolete piece of machinery any further. I was considering trying the 24" M4, but I don't know if that would even be any different than the Studio Display that didn't work out. I am at a loss for why I can't find anything that is suitable for me.
 
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Try the 24” iMac. If you buy from Apple there’s a 14 day return period.

I loved the display on mine. It was a lot less eye strain than my old generic Windows monitors. Also don’t forget to adjust display settings if you need to. Sometimes making things bigger helps. At least for me it does.
 
Kupo12 said:
I'm running on fumes with a 2010 iMac. It is long over-due for an upgrade, but I have had crazy issues with eye fatigue/straining/burning when I try to use other monitors. I thought at first it might be a transition thing that I need to get used to, but I've spent an entire month trying to get used to a new monitor (I've tried probably a dozen and even springing for the studio display) and my eyes just can't seem to accept a new display.

I know matte coated monitors are at least part of the problem and make things difficult. I don't have these issues when I use my iPhone 12, iPad, or even while watching TV. Yet every. single. monitor I use gives me grief. I've even tried out the Alogic Clarity with the same frustrations. I've tried reducing the resolution to be 1440p like what I have, I've tried changing color profiles, I have f.lux installed, reduce the backlight, I have had my eyes checked. I just don't get it. I can use my iMac all day for 16 hours without any fatigue, but everything else I've used just kills my eyes withinin 20 minutes.

Furthermore, I don't know if new monitors just have more vibrant colors or what, but that shouldn't matter because I tried changing the display to just black and white and it made no difference. Are there new coatings on apple monitors today that they didn't have before or something? The hard drive on my 2010 iMac is about to fail for the second time and I really would like to get a new computer rather than have to drag out using this old, Frankensteined, obsolete piece of machinery any further. I was considering trying the 24" M4, but I don't know if that would even be any different than the Studio Display that didn't work out. I am at a loss for why I can't find anything that is suitable for me.
Click to expand...
Remember it is hay fever season (or at least it is here in the UK) and different pollen will cause a reaction in different people. That and a subconscious preference for your old monitor? Have you tried some lubricating eyedrops?

The other poster's suggestion of taking advantage of a new iMac for a "satisfaction or return" period is great.

NB I also have a Screener Pro light above my screen. As I've got older (now mid 60s) I've found it helps.

Let us know how you go on.

 
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chiefsub68 said:
Remember it is hay fever season (or at least it is here in the UK) and different pollen will cause a reaction in different people. That and a subconscious preference for your old monitor? Have you tried some lubricating eyedrops?

The other poster's suggestion of taking advantage of a new iMac for a "satisfaction or return" period is great.

NB I also have a Screener Pro light above my screen. As I've got older (now mid 60s) I've found it helps.

Let us know how you go on.

Click to expand...
Yeah, I should clarify that I've been searching for a substitute for a couple of years now. I've tried and returned many monitors including the Studio Display. Most of which were tried during the winter seasons (but I don't have hayfever allergies anyway).
 
I see a lot of people on this forum talking about eye strain in relation to "PWM" which is apparently a way that some displays use to control brightness, that basically involves flickering the display off and on very rapidly. From what I have read, in some people it can cause severe eye strain and headaches. Curious as to whether this is relevant to your situation.
 
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The Apple Studio display doesn’t use PWM.
But it does use FRC which is a way of alternating 8 bit colours so that they appear as 10 bit.
Your old iMac predates such technical tricks.

Better Display is a GitHub app (with a free version) which allows FRC to be turned off.
Which helps some people.

Any affordable monitor which says 10 bit colours in its specs is almost certainly using FRC.

Apple’s Pro XDR display doesn’t…
 
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Yes there are various technical details like PWM and dithering that can cause eye strain for you if you are sensitive to it. For dithering there is a macOS app called stillcolor you can use to disable that and it will reduce eye strain even on Macbook displays.

It would probably be best to go to a computer store where you can try out monitors although at 20 minutes per monitor you'd be stuck there all day. Or you could order a monitor that is known to cause less eye strain.

Which specific iMac model do you have right now? I'll check if I can find any technical details as to why this particular iMac is not causing you eye strain. And then I might be able to find one you can order and try out (but you'd need to let us know what kind of monitor you are looking for in terms of size and resolution and features and how you use it, how accurate does it need to be and so on).
 
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okkibs said:
Yes there are various technical details like PWM and dithering that can cause eye strain for you if you are sensitive to it. For dithering there is a macOS app called stillcolor you can use to disable that and it will reduce eye strain even on Macbook displays.

It would probably be best to go to a computer store where you can try out monitors although at 20 minutes per monitor you'd be stuck there all day. Or you could order a monitor that is known to cause less eye strain.

Which specific iMac model do you have right now? I'll check if I can find any technical details as to why this particular iMac is not causing you eye strain. And then I might be able to find one you can order and try out (but you'd need to let us know what kind of monitor you are looking for in terms of size and resolution and features and how you use it, how accurate does it need to be and so on).
Click to expand...
I have hypothesized that the FRC dithering may be playing a part in that. I have done as you said and even ordered multiple monitors because trying to figure it out at the store was rather difficult. I tried to make sure that the ones I selected didn't have PWM. These are all the ones I remember trying:

Dell s2721qs - This one, unless it is a false claim, was said to be using a true 10-bit monitor.
BENQ pd2700U
BENQ ex2780q
ASUS pg27uq
ASUS vg27aq
LG 27up650
LG 27ul650 (older version of that model)
Samsung odyssey g7 (thought I returned that because it had other issues that I wasn't able to accept)
MSI optix g24c
Alogic Clairity
Apple Studio Display

The iMac I'm using now is the mid 2010 27" 2.8GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i5 processor with ati radeon HD 5750 1024mb. I'd prefer to keep a 27" monitor if possible, but I don't mind going smaller. At this point I'm not all that picky. I need something that I can use for/with a new computer. I think it needs to be glossy because I do have a problem with the matte coatings on these things.

Thank you I really appreciate the assistance.
 
Kupo12 said:
I'm running on fumes with a 2010 iMac. It is long over-due for an upgrade, but I have had crazy issues with eye fatigue/straining/burning when I try to use other monitors. I thought at first it might be a transition thing that I need to get used to, but I've spent an entire month trying to get used to a new monitor (I've tried probably a dozen and even springing for the studio display) and my eyes just can't seem to accept a new display.

I know matte coated monitors are at least part of the problem and make things difficult. I don't have these issues when I use my iPhone 12, iPad, or even while watching TV. Yet every. single. monitor I use gives me grief. I've even tried out the Alogic Clarity with the same frustrations. I've tried reducing the resolution to be 1440p like what I have, I've tried changing color profiles, I have f.lux installed, reduce the backlight, I have had my eyes checked. I just don't get it. I can use my iMac all day for 16 hours without any fatigue, but everything else I've used just kills my eyes withinin 20 minutes.

Furthermore, I don't know if new monitors just have more vibrant colors or what, but that shouldn't matter because I tried changing the display to just black and white and it made no difference. Are there new coatings on apple monitors today that they didn't have before or something? The hard drive on my 2010 iMac is about to fail for the second time and I really would like to get a new computer rather than have to drag out using this old, Frankensteined, obsolete piece of machinery any further. I was considering trying the 24" M4, but I don't know if that would even be any different than the Studio Display that didn't work out. I am at a loss for why I can't find anything that is suitable for me.
Click to expand...

The old Apple QHD panels were great. I have 2009 and 2010 iMac 27s and the displays are bright and sharp at native resolution.
 
@Kupo12
All the monitors you tried have 8 bit+2 FRC panels (including the Dell), except the second vg27aq ASUS one, and the MSI one.
These are 16.7 million colours = 8bits.

EDIT: The Dell S2721QS does not have backlight PWM, but does use FRC dithering (like the ASD).
 
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You can get a 2012 24" iMac for less than new. The display is brilliant, and you can get up to a 3.4 GHz i7 processor - plenty of oomph to get any job done. I have one of these and I still love it. There is nothing it can't do.

p.s. it may be a 27" screen. I am not at it so I can't check.
 
Kupo12 said:
I'm running on fumes with a 2010 iMac. It is long over-due for an upgrade, but I have had crazy issues with eye fatigue/straining/burning when I try to use other monitors. I thought at first it might be a transition thing that I need to get used to, but I've spent an entire month trying to get used to a new monitor (I've tried probably a dozen and even springing for the studio display) and my eyes just can't seem to accept a new display.

I know matte coated monitors are at least part of the problem and make things difficult. I don't have these issues when I use my iPhone 12, iPad, or even while watching TV. Yet every. single. monitor I use gives me grief. I've even tried out the Alogic Clarity with the same frustrations. I've tried reducing the resolution to be 1440p like what I have, I've tried changing color profiles, I have f.lux installed, reduce the backlight, I have had my eyes checked. I just don't get it. I can use my iMac all day for 16 hours without any fatigue, but everything else I've used just kills my eyes withinin 20 minutes.

Furthermore, I don't know if new monitors just have more vibrant colors or what, but that shouldn't matter because I tried changing the display to just black and white and it made no difference. Are there new coatings on apple monitors today that they didn't have before or something? The hard drive on my 2010 iMac is about to fail for the second time and I really would like to get a new computer rather than have to drag out using this old, Frankensteined, obsolete piece of machinery any further. I was considering trying the 24" M4, but I don't know if that would even be any different than the Studio Display that didn't work out. I am at a loss for why I can't find anything that is suitable for me.
Click to expand...
Have you tried using a monitor filter, such as a privacy filter, blue light filter, etc.? That might give you a way to try to figure out what you're sensitive to.
 
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Kupo12 said:
I'm running on fumes with a 2010 iMac. It is long over-due for an upgrade, but I have had crazy issues with eye fatigue/straining/burning when I try to use other monitors. I thought at first it might be a transition thing that I need to get used to, but I've spent an entire month trying to get used to a new monitor (I've tried probably a dozen and even springing for the studio display) and my eyes just can't seem to accept a new display.

I know matte coated monitors are at least part of the problem and make things difficult. I don't have these issues when I use my iPhone 12, iPad, or even while watching TV. Yet every. single. monitor I use gives me grief. I've even tried out the Alogic Clarity with the same frustrations. I've tried reducing the resolution to be 1440p like what I have, I've tried changing color profiles, I have f.lux installed, reduce the backlight, I have had my eyes checked. I just don't get it. I can use my iMac all day for 16 hours without any fatigue, but everything else I've used just kills my eyes withinin 20 minutes.

Furthermore, I don't know if new monitors just have more vibrant colors or what, but that shouldn't matter because I tried changing the display to just black and white and it made no difference. Are there new coatings on apple monitors today that they didn't have before or something? The hard drive on my 2010 iMac is about to fail for the second time and I really would like to get a new computer rather than have to drag out using this old, Frankensteined, obsolete piece of machinery any further. I was considering trying the 24" M4, but I don't know if that would even be any different than the Studio Display that didn't work out. I am at a loss for why I can't find anything that is suitable for me.
Click to expand...
Have you been to the optometrist?
 
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Kupo12 said:
I was considering it, but I use my computer 16 hours a day. I am not sure how conducive something of that size will be to my overall health in the long-term.
Click to expand...

I have been down the same path with eye strain. Long hours at the monitor doing Genealogy led to dry eye. Try using this brand of lubricant.

Oasis Eye Drops

Even if your eye doc said you did not have any issue with quality of tear covering your eyes, give this a try. It has no artificial ingredients, can be bought at many eye doctors or optometry shops, and probably at Amazon. Avoid the others as they often have preservatives in it. I get mine in a box that has small individual plastic vials, each vial is good for both eyes.

Past that, you could also be affected by flicker.
 
Kupo12 said:
I'm running on fumes with a 2010 iMac. It is long over-due for an upgrade, but I have had crazy issues with eye fatigue/straining/burning when I try to use other monitors. I thought at first it might be a transition thing that I need to get used to, but I've spent an entire month trying to get used to a new monitor (I've tried probably a dozen and even springing for the studio display) and my eyes just can't seem to accept a new display.

I know matte coated monitors are at least part of the problem and make things difficult. I don't have these issues when I use my iPhone 12, iPad, or even while watching TV. Yet every. single. monitor I use gives me grief. I've even tried out the Alogic Clarity with the same frustrations. I've tried reducing the resolution to be 1440p like what I have, I've tried changing color profiles, I have f.lux installed, reduce the backlight, I have had my eyes checked. I just don't get it. I can use my iMac all day for 16 hours without any fatigue, but everything else I've used just kills my eyes withinin 20 minutes.

Furthermore, I don't know if new monitors just have more vibrant colors or what, but that shouldn't matter because I tried changing the display to just black and white and it made no difference. Are there new coatings on apple monitors today that they didn't have before or something? The hard drive on my 2010 iMac is about to fail for the second time and I really would like to get a new computer rather than have to drag out using this old, Frankensteined, obsolete piece of machinery any further. I was considering trying the 24" M4, but I don't know if that would even be any different than the Studio Display that didn't work out. I am at a loss for why I can't find anything that is suitable for me.
Click to expand...

I can't contribute much because I'm running out of options myself - the newest Apple monitor I can use reasonably is a 15" MBP from 2015, again, before they began all the PWM/FRC trickery.

According to NotebookCheck, the 24" iMac doesn't use PWM, but then again they also said that the M2 and onwards MBAs use neither PWM nor FRC and I can't manage them well either. I suspect that for people that struggle, these issues are multifactorial and we don't even know all the possible contributors.

That being said I'm glad to see that FRC can be at least partially disabled with software - I wish I had a machine to try that on to see how much it helps.
 
123123123 said:
OP did say they got their eyes checked. I'd hope that it was a full, in-depth exam with pupil dilation. (I also have eye issues, so I'm used to going to an optometrist and basically asking them to do the most extensive exam possible.)
Click to expand...

True...however, and there is almost always a 'however'. I have used two different Ophthalmologist in my area, one does a far more thorough check than the other, and uses newer, current tech equipment. The better exam came from a small office with two doctors that use later tech, the worse other came from a large organization.

The smaller doctors office saw that I had one eye that viewed slightly lower than the other eye. This was missed for a number of years by the larger organization. The smaller doctors group prescribed glasses with prism in one lens, so that I viewed everything on the same level. My eyestrain and headaches went away with that prescription prism in the glasses, now I only use the Oasis drops to lube the eyes when they feel dry.

Some of @Kupo12 eyestrain could come from that, might need prism in his glasses. He should at least ask if that was checked for at his last exam.
 
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