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Did the Apple vs Samsung trial made you feel differently about Apple?
- Thread starter Dolorian
- Start date
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For the worst, yes, I could see a couple of Apples patents being fine in court, but most of it was crap.
I see Apple as nothing more than a patent troll, that is 100% afraid of competition.
I miss the cool, edgy, slightly offbeat company, that for a long time, made computers that were just silly ( some of which I bought ), they were cool, they were different. And they were pretty awesome. Now? Re release the same products over and and over again, then sue when your competition catches up.
I see Apple as nothing more than a patent troll, that is 100% afraid of competition.
I miss the cool, edgy, slightly offbeat company, that for a long time, made computers that were just silly ( some of which I bought ), they were cool, they were different. And they were pretty awesome. Now? Re release the same products over and and over again, then sue when your competition catches up.
The fact is Apple made something so revolutionary that the Korean mobile industry responded by stealing their IP. Notice that Apple is not suing Motorola or Nokia.
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How is Apple a patent troll for protecting their inventions? Have you ever been involved in an engineering project for years only to see others rip you off?
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How is Apple a patent troll for protecting their inventions? Have you ever been involved in an engineering project for years only to see others rip you off?
You know it's an interesting thing about Apple, and my 2 decade relationship with this company.
On the one hand, you get a kick ass computer. But more than that, you get the software, which cannot be run (without great difficulty) on anything else.
With a Windows machine, you have so many more choices as to what your hardware is, and how much exactly you are willing to spend.
There are certain software packages, that I have been studying and using for years, and I am not about to switch camps. So I am automatically stuck with buying a Mac.
I have certainly considered a Hackintosh, but for some reason I always have this idea in the back of my mind, that after all the research, all the parts are bought, and all the trial and error and time it goes into building your own computer, it would end up costing me about the same amount of money. (and possibly my sanity)
As far as their personal devices go, it's a much different story:
I have avoided purchasing an iPhone for years now. For smartphones, I have no loyalty whatsoever to Apple. Also, I have owned 8 ipods, and 2 shuffles, and they are all dead now, useless space junk.
Same goes with the iPad...I look at all the cool apps, and I feel this intense resistance to it all. Mistrust, actually now that I really think about it. I believe that there is a level of built-in-obsolescence that happens with Apple, and you are EXPECTED to grab the latest version of the same product. Sell your iPhone 4, because you just know the Iphone 5 is going to be so much better.
It kind of like you already own a 2 slice toaster, but then you find a 4 slice toaster, and so you end up buying another toaster!!
Every year, you have to keep buying ultimately the same thing over and over again, just because they added some features.
I'm really old fashioned in the sense that when I pay this kind of cash for a product of ANY kind, I expect it to last for YEARS.
NOT 3 months out of the warranty period. With a company like Samsung, they have more to prove, it seems. Rather than stringing people along, donkey chasing a carrot, I would feel better buying a Samsung "rip off" version of the iPhone, simply because I expect it to last longer!!
Competition is always good for the consumer, and Apple just wiped out one of the key players, which doesn't at all help consumers. One of my students had a Galaxy, and I was blown away by it. It is clearly a superior product; bigger screen, removable memory, removable battery, those are the key ingredients missing from the iPhone. Even on MBPro, you havent been able to remove that battery, keep a spare around for field work, you've got to rely on expensive, 3rd party products to couple with the machine.
There is always a certain audience that will automatically buy Apple, not bother to do a market research, just based on faith that it is better, and that is what all of their friends have.
Not sure if I've answered the question or not, but it's FRUSTRATING that I won't be able to buy an alternative product to the iPhone, like the Galaxy, that IMHO was really a valid competitor.
There used to be a company called UMax back in the day that Apple wiped out for making desktop clones. That sucked, because people in poorer countries who hate Windows as much as I do, had no choice but to work on a Windows computer.
At the moment, if you need to purchase an awesome desktop computer, you only have the choice of a MacPro tower, which hasn't been updated for a half a century ! Are they even going to bother making a new version? One would hope, but one cannot assume!
I read today that there are more 13" retina MBPros being sold than 15".
I've never held one in my hand, but I'd bet that I would be more interested in the 15" computer, but if only a handful of people are buying them, pretty soon, like the 17" MBPro, Apple will nix this all together as well. I wish they' stop looking at their spreadsheets, and care a little more about who their user base is, and keeping those customers loyal, by giving us what we want, instead of TELLING us what we want.
TREATMENT
On the one hand, you get a kick ass computer. But more than that, you get the software, which cannot be run (without great difficulty) on anything else.
With a Windows machine, you have so many more choices as to what your hardware is, and how much exactly you are willing to spend.
There are certain software packages, that I have been studying and using for years, and I am not about to switch camps. So I am automatically stuck with buying a Mac.
I have certainly considered a Hackintosh, but for some reason I always have this idea in the back of my mind, that after all the research, all the parts are bought, and all the trial and error and time it goes into building your own computer, it would end up costing me about the same amount of money. (and possibly my sanity)
As far as their personal devices go, it's a much different story:
I have avoided purchasing an iPhone for years now. For smartphones, I have no loyalty whatsoever to Apple. Also, I have owned 8 ipods, and 2 shuffles, and they are all dead now, useless space junk.
Same goes with the iPad...I look at all the cool apps, and I feel this intense resistance to it all. Mistrust, actually now that I really think about it. I believe that there is a level of built-in-obsolescence that happens with Apple, and you are EXPECTED to grab the latest version of the same product. Sell your iPhone 4, because you just know the Iphone 5 is going to be so much better.
It kind of like you already own a 2 slice toaster, but then you find a 4 slice toaster, and so you end up buying another toaster!!
Every year, you have to keep buying ultimately the same thing over and over again, just because they added some features.
I'm really old fashioned in the sense that when I pay this kind of cash for a product of ANY kind, I expect it to last for YEARS.
NOT 3 months out of the warranty period. With a company like Samsung, they have more to prove, it seems. Rather than stringing people along, donkey chasing a carrot, I would feel better buying a Samsung "rip off" version of the iPhone, simply because I expect it to last longer!!
Competition is always good for the consumer, and Apple just wiped out one of the key players, which doesn't at all help consumers. One of my students had a Galaxy, and I was blown away by it. It is clearly a superior product; bigger screen, removable memory, removable battery, those are the key ingredients missing from the iPhone. Even on MBPro, you havent been able to remove that battery, keep a spare around for field work, you've got to rely on expensive, 3rd party products to couple with the machine.
There is always a certain audience that will automatically buy Apple, not bother to do a market research, just based on faith that it is better, and that is what all of their friends have.
Not sure if I've answered the question or not, but it's FRUSTRATING that I won't be able to buy an alternative product to the iPhone, like the Galaxy, that IMHO was really a valid competitor.
There used to be a company called UMax back in the day that Apple wiped out for making desktop clones. That sucked, because people in poorer countries who hate Windows as much as I do, had no choice but to work on a Windows computer.
At the moment, if you need to purchase an awesome desktop computer, you only have the choice of a MacPro tower, which hasn't been updated for a half a century ! Are they even going to bother making a new version? One would hope, but one cannot assume!
I read today that there are more 13" retina MBPros being sold than 15".
I've never held one in my hand, but I'd bet that I would be more interested in the 15" computer, but if only a handful of people are buying them, pretty soon, like the 17" MBPro, Apple will nix this all together as well. I wish they' stop looking at their spreadsheets, and care a little more about who their user base is, and keeping those customers loyal, by giving us what we want, instead of TELLING us what we want.
TREATMENT
So far they only have it in 15", although I wouldn't be surprised to see it come to the 13" size. Look, if Apple stops making product you want, there are tons of competitors out there and you already stated you have no problems using Windows. So what's the big problem?
Umm Apple is suing Motorola and Nokia. The only reason Motorola fired first was they found out Apple was preparing to file a law suit against them. Motorola filed first so they got control over were the court was.
It not Apple protecting their IP but Apple using patent troll level patents to do it. If they were not this crapents that should of never been granted it would be one thing but not things like a flat rectangle or slide to unlock.
Ah the lament of those who never invented anything, but made a living by copying.
I already harbor quite a lot of resentment towards Apple, and this whole farce just made it grow, really.
I jumped on the Apple ship back in 2006, and they might have been the same company back then too, I just didn't see it. However, even with my extremely limited moral capacity and care for anything, I just don't want to give them more of my business. I also think that they have gotten a bit sloppy. Their products aren't really that impressive anymore, and other manufacturers have gained a lot of ground the past year or two. Phone-wise, Apple aren't even in the lead anymore when it comes to an interesting and appealing product (if you ask me).
So yeah, this kind of competition-preventing, arbitrary legal fighting over vague patents describing beveled edges and geometric shapes just piss me off.
I jumped on the Apple ship back in 2006, and they might have been the same company back then too, I just didn't see it. However, even with my extremely limited moral capacity and care for anything, I just don't want to give them more of my business. I also think that they have gotten a bit sloppy. Their products aren't really that impressive anymore, and other manufacturers have gained a lot of ground the past year or two. Phone-wise, Apple aren't even in the lead anymore when it comes to an interesting and appealing product (if you ask me).
So yeah, this kind of competition-preventing, arbitrary legal fighting over vague patents describing beveled edges and geometric shapes just piss me off.
I don't feel any differently about Apple now than I did several years ago. They were clear about protecting iPhone patents from the get go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JZBLjxPBUU
Also, I think any company in their position would have done the same thing. If you invest a lot of effort in a creating a product that becomes wildly successful, then you see it being imitated by your competitors, what would you do? I doubt many will say: "This is healthy competition. Carry on, competitors!"
I keep hearing people say that some of the iPhone parents are obvious or trivial, and that they shouldn't have been granted in the first place. I'm not an expert in these matters, but didn't the jury consider all iPhone patents to be valid?
Also, I think any company in their position would have done the same thing. If you invest a lot of effort in a creating a product that becomes wildly successful, then you see it being imitated by your competitors, what would you do? I doubt many will say: "This is healthy competition. Carry on, competitors!"
I keep hearing people say that some of the iPhone parents are obvious or trivial, and that they shouldn't have been granted in the first place. I'm not an expert in these matters, but didn't the jury consider all iPhone patents to be valid?
SO many tens of thousands of patents in the mobile arena have been granted in the last several years, who can sift through it all to determine what is legit?
That's still not possible with today's technology in a reasonable amount of time. Maybe in the future, something like Watson could be used for this kind of task.
Samsung had the opportunity to invalidate Apple's patents by showing prior art. They did, but now we know that the jury didn't find Samsung's invalidation arguments to be convincing.
Good on ya, Apple!
I feel that this court case is pretty much fine. Apple's got every right to protect their design. Yes, it does seem incredibly harsh that Apple has patents that people are calling "black rectangle wih rounded corners," I agree with how simple and obvious his design is to house a rectangle, black screen, but the patents are for a lot more design than that. As we can see, there have been hundreds of iterations on Apple's design, and although they all tend to that similar, simple theme, there have been dramatically different looks and feels to the iPhone.
And you can definitely tell that certain companies choose to copy this instead of doing it themselves.
...I would like to put the emphasis on the word 'choose' there.
Other companies CHOOSE to copy Apple's design. Instead of choosing to invest into a newdesin team, who can bust a few brain cells and come up with a breathtaking design which, infact, would make MORE choice for the consumer, not, as Samsung claims Apple winning this court case gives; less.
You only have to visit macrumours when a new iPhone model is starting to bring out the rumour-sprouting artists, or go on google for artists impressions of how they feel a next iPhone should look. 'Concept versions,' if you wish. Clear glass models, models with a slide-out keyboard, models which dont have the exact same black margin above and below the screen as every iphone so far, plus a home button, models with buttons around the sides, touch screens along the edges, etc, etc, ETC, BLOODY ETC...
I'm not an award winning designer. I've not got years of experience in designing a phone, but someone pass on the message to Samsung...I'll take a thousand pounds, give me an evening and a brew, I'll get home from work tonight, sit at me computer, maybe have a look what's new on gizmodo and watch a few cat videos, but tomorow morning I'll give you a list of design ideas which could make new, attractive phones which aren't bloody black rectangles with rounded corners...because clearly Samsung is paying their design team to draw iPhones, not to draw the next Samsung Neptune, which has a night-sky-blue pearlescent finish, and a slide out keyboard and side mounted laser cannons, and a snorkel for breathing underwater which works with a built-in voice communicator to allow you to ask fish their opinions on industrial design, and patent law as you swim by. Maybe ask if they know any good Catfish videos on YouScoob(a)?
I'm being O.T.T. by the way, but hopefully you get my point in a fun way
I feel that this court case is pretty much fine. Apple's got every right to protect their design. Yes, it does seem incredibly harsh that Apple has patents that people are calling "black rectangle wih rounded corners," I agree with how simple and obvious his design is to house a rectangle, black screen, but the patents are for a lot more design than that. As we can see, there have been hundreds of iterations on Apple's design, and although they all tend to that similar, simple theme, there have been dramatically different looks and feels to the iPhone.
And you can definitely tell that certain companies choose to copy this instead of doing it themselves.
...I would like to put the emphasis on the word 'choose' there.
Other companies CHOOSE to copy Apple's design. Instead of choosing to invest into a newdesin team, who can bust a few brain cells and come up with a breathtaking design which, infact, would make MORE choice for the consumer, not, as Samsung claims Apple winning this court case gives; less.
You only have to visit macrumours when a new iPhone model is starting to bring out the rumour-sprouting artists, or go on google for artists impressions of how they feel a next iPhone should look. 'Concept versions,' if you wish. Clear glass models, models with a slide-out keyboard, models which dont have the exact same black margin above and below the screen as every iphone so far, plus a home button, models with buttons around the sides, touch screens along the edges, etc, etc, ETC, BLOODY ETC...
I'm not an award winning designer. I've not got years of experience in designing a phone, but someone pass on the message to Samsung...I'll take a thousand pounds, give me an evening and a brew, I'll get home from work tonight, sit at me computer, maybe have a look what's new on gizmodo and watch a few cat videos, but tomorow morning I'll give you a list of design ideas which could make new, attractive phones which aren't bloody black rectangles with rounded corners...because clearly Samsung is paying their design team to draw iPhones, not to draw the next Samsung Neptune, which has a night-sky-blue pearlescent finish, and a slide out keyboard and side mounted laser cannons, and a snorkel for breathing underwater which works with a built-in voice communicator to allow you to ask fish their opinions on industrial design, and patent law as you swim by. Maybe ask if they know any good Catfish videos on YouScoob(a)?
I'm being O.T.T. by the way, but hopefully you get my point in a fun way
Just playing devils advocate here, but most iPhone concepts are made with little to no forethought put into the design. There are many alternatives, but very few are good alternatives. Often the most realistic and well thought out designs are the ones that most resemble the current iPhone. This can apply to Samsung as well: sometimes there is just no logical way around the problem. As for Apple, they already borrow HEAVILY from Braun, so it's not like they're innocent in all of this to start with.
Oh yeah man, I definitely agree. I'm by far too much of an Apple fan by default on things like this (sometimes I curse myself for being so!), but I will admit some of the stuff they do is 100% hypocritical. But for the purposes of sarcasm, I'd like to think I explained why I personally think Samsung were a little too "ere right, lets do that and write samsung on it".
I think you do have somewhat of a valid point. There are some strong similarities in what Apple and Samsung have made. Samsungs TouchWiz has several incredibly similar aspects. However, I still don't feel as though they outright copied Apple. Nothing was a one-to-one copy, and most things, it could be argued, were evolutions of their own earlier designs, much in the way that Nokia's Lumia handsets evolved naturally to where they are now, and yet some people still draw similarities to the iPod Nano. There are only so many ways to assemble components into a phone shape before things start to look similar.
I think this is a problem with more than one answer, and the outcome of the trial wasn't one of the better ones. I seriously think some of Apples patents need to be thrown out, they are far too generic, but I also feel that the patent system in general needs to be overhauled. I'm not educated enough in that field to make suggestions of how, but it's clear that what is in place now isn't working.
EDIT: sorry, I seem to have gotten a little carried away...
I'm glad Apple isn't just letting this ****wit company get away with it.
If any of you had your own business and the funds to protect yourself to the extent Apple can, you would.
I'm behind Apple 100%.
Don't you wish the down vote button was here. boo ****ing hoo
If any of you had your own business and the funds to protect yourself to the extent Apple can, you would.
I'm behind Apple 100%.
Don't you wish the down vote button was here. boo ****ing hoo
See, it's so easy to justify what Apple is doing if you start out with Samsung being the bad guy. Does that mean Braun should also be able to sue the bejeezus out of Apple? I mean, it's pretty clear that's where Ive gets his designs from
If you were Samsung you would also be defending yourself from stuff like this, so your point is moot.
Except that all phones before the iPhone looked VERY different than now. But that isn't even the point. Only someone very disingenuous or totally blind wouldn't see how those Samsung products were copying Apple at so many levels: Hardware, Software, UI, Packaging... Even Korean courts agree that Samsung copied Apple (but also that Apple infringed on Samsung's IP).
The phones after the iPhone also look quite different, and it would take someone equally as blind to disagree with that. Both companies provided a sample of Samsungs phones in the court case, and both painted a very different picture (Apple showed all the similar ones, Samsung showed the differentiated ones). It's not as black and white as you are making it out to be.
EDIT: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...msung-copied-the-iphone-and-ipad-in-pictures/
Look at picture 3 and 4 in particular.
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See, it's so easy to justify what Apple is doing if you start out with Samsung being the bad guy. Does that mean Braun should also be able to sue the bejeezus out of Apple? I mean, it's pretty clear that's where Ive gets his designs from
If you were Samsung you would also be defending yourself from stuff like this, so your point is moot.
I didn't know Braun made phones
If I were Samsung I'd definitely be defending.......my absolute **** up.
I didn't know Braun made phones
If I were Samsung I'd definitely be defending.......my absolute **** up.
I didn't know Apple made Android phones
See, depending on where you arbitrarily draw the line, it's easy to vilify a company's actions.
From your point of view it is a "**** up". That doesn't make Samsung the bad guy. They have every right to defend their actions, and IMO they presented a pretty strong case. Not everything they said was equally strong, but a lot made sense, just as not everything Apple said made sense, but some did. Look at that Ars Technica link I posted earlier and see if you can spot the similarities to iOS in the other OSs on show, and work out why they got left alone but Samsung didn't.
I didn't know Apple made Android phones
See, depending on where you arbitrarily draw the line, it's easy to vilify a company's actions.
From your point of view it is a "**** up". That doesn't make Samsung the bad guy. They have every right to defend their actions, and IMO they presented a pretty strong case. Not everything they said was equally strong, but a lot made sense, just as not everything Apple said made sense, but some did. Look at that Ars Technica link I posted earlier and see if you can spot the similarities to iOS in the other OSs on show, and work out why they got left alone but Samsung didn't.
You drew the line being a phone, I drew it at the OS it runs. Why not draw the line at general shape? Or colour? Or materials?
Note, there was a whole second paragraph which you conveniently ignored.
Funny, I managed to get past yours. I can see this isn't going anywhere productive though, so lets call it a night before one of us gets a warning.