Digital ICE dust and scratch removal with Epson V600 scanner

[Mike Boreham]

I have just bought an Epson V600 scanner for the purpose of speeding up digitising my negatives.

The Epson Scan 2 software works well but does not support the Digital ICE removal of dust and scratches.

The Epson V600 downloads page has this statement:

"If you upgrade to macOS 10.15 Catalina you’ll need to install the Epson Scan 2 driver below; however, this updated Epson Scan 2 version does not include Digital ICE. As a solution, we are providing the SilverFast SE driver/utility free of charge. This driver includes iSRD®, an Infrared Dust and Scratch Removal tool that you can use in lieu of Digital ICE. LEARN MORE To download SilverFast SE, please click the link and follow the instructions. NOTE: You will need the scanner's hardware serial number to download the SilverFast SE software."

I use Silverfast with my Reflecta RPS7200 film scanner and have tried the EpsonV600 version. It does indeed support Digital ICE but is deficient in other ways compared to Epson Scan 2, and much slower to use.

Does anyone know if it is possible to run the original Epson Scan software with the V600 in Monterey? If so where to download it? Suspect not from the above.

The other option is Vuescan Pro which I have. I have used it with the Reflecta but not tried so far with the V600.

Another option would be to use the original Epson Scan software in Parallels. (The V600 has been around for years and works with the original Epson Scan, but not in Catalina or later it seems).

Thanks for any advice or info.

P.S. I can't help feeling a little bit miffed with Epson for selling the V600 as a Digital ICE machine but then revealing it has to be used with third party software. Epson V600 Product page.

 

[mollyc]

@bunnspecial does scanning but not sure his exact setup. @tizeye also shoots film, but not sure if he is scanning at home or with a lab.

I scan with a camera and ignore the dust. ?

 

[tizeye]

I use the now discontinued predecessor to the V600, the V550. Virtually identical, including Digital Ice. I currently run it on a PC with Windows 10 and have the same concerns if transition the desktop to a Mac. Haven't tried scanning with my MacBook Pro (Intel), as the M1 Pro is another upgrade looking at. Very aware of the issues with Epson Scan and a Mac, and even Windows 11. At worse, my security camera is on a dedicated PC and could always load the Epson scan software on there.

Just yesterday was looking at a couple of YouTube videos on the subject, and it is interesting that tou mentioned Epson's "solution" was to provide a driver/utility for Silverfast which competes with Epson's software. One of the videos was "Film Scan Comparison" that looked at Epson Scan, Silverfast, and Negative Lab Pro. On B&W, Epson was superior, hands down. On color, while I preferred the Epson's output, the author preferred Silverfast but did acknowledge that both Silverfast and Negative Lab Pro needed additional work in post to remove a yellow or redish color cast for natural colors. Also, he noted in a disgruntled voice that he discovered when upgrading his machine, the license applies to the machine and had to fork out another $49 for a new license.

Another video I watched was "Sharpness Test - Lab vs Epson 600 vs DSLR" While lab has more detail, I and many of the comments, thought they over sharpened to the point it did't even look good. Epson vs DSLR was interesting as very similar output. Got me to thinking...skip the Epson and an excuse to buy a macro lens and lightbox. Don;t really need the camera stand (looks like an enlarger stand that the camera would mount to which I may have if I remove the enlarger head, but would lean towards my Manfrotto tripod that has a center post that rotates for horizonal mounting. Film carriers...could probably use the Epson carriers placed on top of the lightbox.

 

[mollyc]

Oh, I do use Negative Lab Pro. But it doesn't do any sort of dust removal. Some stuff I will clone/healing brush out, but most of it doesn't bother me unless it's super obvious. However, I'm only ever doing a roll or two at a time, not digitizing archives worth.

 

[bunnspecial]

I'd use VMWare to set up a Mojave or earlier virtual machine and run the older Epson software in there.

I have done similar, albeit with Snow Leopard, for my Nikon Coolscan 5000 to run the Nikon software, which was never updated to be Intel native. I do have a V700(big brother to the V600)...or is a V800? Whichever, it's one of the big boys that can do up to 8x10 transparencies but is otherwise similar to the V600(which IIRC can't do larger than 4x5). I mostly do my scanning on a Mac Pro running 10.6.8-this is ideal for the Coolscan 8000 as it is firewire only and FW can't be passed through to VMs.

And my regular rant on scanning-Digital ICE consists of two components, and it is not truly Digital ICE unless you are using both of these. The first of these is hardware-level in the scanner, and specifically infrared-channel scanning. The second part of it is the software that makes use of the infrared scan. Digital ICE is a specific piece of software/cleaning algorithm from a company called Applied Science Fiction, although IIRC it's been eaten up, was part of Kodak for a while, and now I think resides with one of the 100 different divisions Kodak has spun off into their own company.

Vuescan, SilverFast, and some other scanners like Canons offer their own version of IR cleaning, which makes use of the IR channel scan BUT uses their own algorithms to use the information. I have not used Silverfast(I won't pay for a separate license for each of my scanners) but have used Vuescan for years. I am happy to show side-by-side comparison from my Coolscan 5000 that show Digital ICE erasing a gigantic processing scratch on a negative with no perceptible loss of detail, while Vuescan just leaves some ugly artifacts around the scratch while only minimizing the appearance of it.

My testing and experience has shown that getting the manufacturers software to work, and in this case using a version that actually contains real Digital ICE, is worth the trouble.

 

[Mike Boreham]

Thanks very much for all the inputs ....interesting and useful.

@bunnspecial. I like your idea of a Mojave VM, but unfortunately (in this case) both my Macs are Silicon and it is not possible to run the intel-only Mojave in a VM on a Silicon Mac. The oldest OS possible is Big Sur which was the first ARM macOS.

But I could run Epson Scan (original) in a Windows 11 ARM VM if:

1. The X86 emulator in Windows 11 ARM works for Epson Scan (original version)
2. I can find a download source for Epson Scan (original)....any suggestions? Epson's own download pages only offer Epson Scan 2 even if I enter an old OS version, like Windows 7. This is true for the Epson V550 as well.

Yes Silverfast is a pain in many ways especially needing a separate license for each scanner, but in this case Epson give a free license so that option doesn't cost me anything, but the workflow is terrible (unless I am doing something wrong). The problem is around the preview scans and adjusting. Maybe there are ways but I have read similar comments.

Digital ICE/IR cleaning is not crucial for me, but I would like to have it available. I hadn't appreciated that Digital ICE was a special version of IR. I have had some quite impressive (to me) results from Silverfast IR with my RPS 7200.

I know lots of people love Vuescan but I struggle with it, but as I said haven't tried the V600 with it.

Thanks again all, and any suggestions about a download source for Epson Scan (original) very welcome.

 

[bunnspecial]

Thanks again all, and any suggestions about a download source for Epson Scan (original) very welcome.

I bought my V700 second-hand and could have sworn I downloaded the version of Epson Scan I used from Epson's website.

I know this is throwing more stuff/money at it, but it might be worth grabbing a 2012 Mac Mini. They are relatively inexpensive now and run Mojave great. I say a 2012 specifically because the 2014s are pretty universally crummy...

EDIT:

Here's the version I use https://epson.com/Support/Scanners/.../SPT_B11B198011?review-filter=Mac+OS+X+10.6.x

 

[Mike Boreham]

I bought my V700 second-hand and could have sworn I downloaded the version of Epson Scan I used from Epson's website.

I know this is throwing more stuff/money at it, but it might be worth grabbing a 2012 Mac Mini. They are relatively inexpensive now and run Mojave great. I say a 2012 specifically because the 2014s are pretty universally crummy...

EDIT:

Here's the version I use https://epson.com/Support/Scanners/.../SPT_B11B198011?review-filter=Mac+OS+X+10.6.x

Thanks. Maybe I missed it before, but using your link and changing the OS to Windows 11 offered me:

"Description :

This file contains the Epson Perfection V600 Scanner Driver and EPSON Scan Utility v3.9.3.1.

Compatible systems :

Windows 11, Windows 10 32-bit, Windows 10 64-bit, Windows 8.1 32-bit, Windows 8.1 64-bit, Windows 8 32-bit, Windows 8 64-bit, Windows 7 32-bit, Windows 7 64-bit"

which maybe is Epson Scan original. I will try tomorrow, as late here now.

I am not ruling out a second hand older intel Mac. I hadn't thought of that. In fact there might be some within the family sitting in drawers.

 

[bunnspecial]

Thanks. Maybe I missed it before, but using your link and changing the OS to Windows 11 offered me:

"Description :

This file contains the Epson Perfection V600 Scanner Driver and EPSON Scan Utility v3.9.3.1.

Compatible systems :

Windows 11, Windows 10 32-bit, Windows 10 64-bit, Windows 8.1 32-bit, Windows 8.1 64-bit, Windows 8 32-bit, Windows 8 64-bit, Windows 7 32-bit, Windows 7 64-bit"

which maybe is Epson Scan original. I will try tomorrow, as late here now.

I am not ruling out a second hand older intel Mac. I hadn't thought of that. In fact there might be some within the family sitting in drawers.

On older Macs-

You have a lot of options. I'm partial to the 2012 computers, as they were some of the last(easily) upgradeable hardware models. Take any of the MBPs or Minis, toss 16gb RAM and an SSD in them, and you still have a very workable and useable system.

I do a lot of my photo editing still on my 2012 15" MBP running a pair of external monitors. Lightroom is actually peppier on it than it is on my M1 MBP since I was stupid enough to believe the reviews claiming 8gb RAM is "plenty" on the M1. The M1 does the initial import and DNG convert faster, and is also faster on "heavy" filters, but just for light adjustments, flipping through photos, and the like, which are largely RAM bound, 16gb in a 10 year old computer trumps 8gb in the fastest otherwise Apple had to offer in 2020.

 

[Mike Boreham]

But I could run Epson Scan (original) in a Windows 11 ARM VM if:

1. The X86 emulator in Windows 11 ARM works for Epson Scan (original version)

It doesn't Tried multiple things to get scanner detected, then found this Epson Support page on the topic of ARM support......solution use Windows Scan app.

I have a way forward, which is using Epson Scan 2 most of the time, and Silverfast (or Vuescan) for dust and scratches when needed, but may yet go down the old Mac route depending on how it goes. Thanks for the great info.

This is the first issue since they were released in Nov 2020 where Silicon has thwarted me.

 

[bunnspecial]

This is the first issue since they were released in Nov 2020 where Silicon has thwarted me.

For day-to-day use(except photo editing on 8gb RAM!) Silicon kicks butt, and even if I regret the specific configuration I bought in February 2021, I don't regret getting into the ecosystem at all.

With that said, Intel and even PowerPC still have their place for me for specific tasks(although increasingly I confine PPC to OS 9 only, as there are only a very few fringe case where you need a full G5 instruction set and which I've not personally encountered where a moderately specced 2008 or so era Intel Mac running 10.6.8 doesn't destroy a G5 Quad running the same software) and my Intel Macs aren't going away any time soon.

Sitting on my desk but not currently in use is a computer that could be really valuable to me as a scanning workstation-it's a 2011 quad core Mac Mini running 10.6.8. That's not an officially supported config, but it's also not overly difficult to make it work. Unfortunately one of the quirks of hacked support is that it will only support a single display.

 

[Mike Boreham]

Thanks again @bunnspecial .
About the older Mac Intel Mac option for using Epson Scan (original) with my V600, can I ask does processor speed have much impact in the time taken to execute the actual scans? Quad core vs dual core, i5 vs i7 etc?

 

[bunnspecial]

Thanks again @bunnspecial .
About the older Mac Intel Mac option for using Epson Scan (original) with my V600, can I ask does processor speed have much impact in the time taken to execute the actual scans? Quad core vs dual core, i5 vs i7 etc?

Speed of acquisition is governed by the scanner hardware, the resolution(higher resolutions generally are achieved by slowing down the speed that the sensor in the scanner is moving) and the interface. My V700 has both USB and Firewire, and I actually see a SLIGHT speed advantage over FW. Using FW, I see a bit of a scan speed advantage when using my 12-core Mac Pro vs. say a dual 1ghz G4, but that's also several generations different.

Where processing speed does play in, and where I see a big difference is when it comes to actually implementing ICE.

ICE is somewhat computationally heavy, and of course scales with image size. At 4000x4000dpi(which your V600 I think can do-I know the V700 and my Nikons do it) a full frame of 35mm film is 4000x6000 pixels, or 24mp. 6x6 medium format is 9000x9000 pixels, or 81mp. Go up to 4x5, which I've done a decent bit on a V700, and you're at 320mp(note that these numbers are what the scanner outputs, not necessarily that the scan will have as much detail as a digital camera with that resolution would give). Also note that for color images, you're getting true 3-channel RGB output, and not Bayer or other algorithm interpolation like 99.99% of digital cameras output(Foveon sensors and scanning backs being the obvious exceptions).

Doing the ICE correction on a big image takes time. On a dual 2.7ghz G5, which I used for a while, a single frame of 35mm film would take ~5 minutes to scan(with ICE), and that was from one of the Nikons which do the IR scan as part of the main pass(IIRC, Epsons do it on a separate pass, which takes as much time as actually capturing an image. A 35mm frame at full res is about 1 minute on the Epson, or 2 minutes with ICE. A Nikon is about 45 seconds). The rest of the time I'm quoting is for the computer to actually do the ICE processing. A 4x5 scan(admittedly worst case scenario) on a dual 2.7 G5 would take 45 minutes in some cases. On my Mac Pro, 35mm just takes a couple of seconds(after the scan is aquired, which again doesn't change with computer speed) and 4x5 takes maybe 3 minutes. 6x6s take maybe 45 seconds.

Within a given generation of computer/processor, though, I don't know how much of a benefit you would see from an i5 vs. an i7 or a dual core vs. a quad core. Nikon Scan is not at all multi-threaded(especially not under Rosetta) and I don't recall how much Epson Scan leverages it.

 

[Mike Boreham]

Speed of acquisition is governed by the scanner hardware, the resolution(higher resolutions generally are achieved by slowing down the speed that the sensor in the scanner is moving) and the interface. My V700 has both USB and Firewire, and I actually see a SLIGHT speed advantage over FW. Using FW, I see a bit of a scan speed advantage when using my 12-core Mac Pro vs. say a dual 1ghz G4, but that's also several generations different.

Where processing speed does play in, and where I see a big difference is when it comes to actually implementing ICE.

ICE is somewhat computationally heavy, and of course scales with image size. At 4000x4000dpi(which your V600 I think can do-I know the V700 and my Nikons do it) a full frame of 35mm film is 4000x6000 pixels, or 24mp. 6x6 medium format is 9000x9000 pixels, or 81mp. Go up to 4x5, which I've done a decent bit on a V700, and you're at 320mp(note that these numbers are what the scanner outputs, not necessarily that the scan will have as much detail as a digital camera with that resolution would give). Also note that for color images, you're getting true 3-channel RGB output, and not Bayer or other algorithm interpolation like 99.99% of digital cameras output(Foveon sensors and scanning backs being the obvious exceptions).

Doing the ICE correction on a big image takes time. On a dual 2.7ghz G5, which I used for a while, a single frame of 35mm film would take ~5 minutes to scan(with ICE), and that was from one of the Nikons which do the IR scan as part of the main pass(IIRC, Epsons do it on a separate pass, which takes as much time as actually capturing an image. A 35mm frame at full res is about 1 minute on the Epson, or 2 minutes with ICE. A Nikon is about 45 seconds). The rest of the time I'm quoting is for the computer to actually do the ICE processing. A 4x5 scan(admittedly worst case scenario) on a dual 2.7 G5 would take 45 minutes in some cases. On my Mac Pro, 35mm just takes a couple of seconds(after the scan is aquired, which again doesn't change with computer speed) and 4x5 takes maybe 3 minutes. 6x6s take maybe 45 seconds.

Within a given generation of computer/processor, though, I don't know how much of a benefit you would see from an i5 vs. an i7 or a dual core vs. a quad core. Nikon Scan is not at all multi-threaded(especially not under Rosetta) and I don't recall how much Epson Scan leverages it.

Gosh what an amazingly comprehensive reply! and very informative. Thank you very much. Even though the reason for doing this would be to have ICE via Epson Scan it would probably still be the minority use. So a modest processor would suffice if I go that route.
I am going to see how things go with what I have before taking any further steps. Since earlier I have watched a YouTube video about Silverfast with the V600 and understand the preview workflow better, so I do have that ICE option with my M1 Mac.

 

[bunnspecial]

Just for the sake of my own knowledge, I’ll try in the next couple of days to do some side by sides on different computers with ICE.

It will have to be on my Coolscan 5000 as my 8000 and V700 are still at my parents house(where they landed in the cracks between my temporary Covid-relocation to there and my wedding, and are one of many things that have yet to make the 300 mile move). Still, though, just for the heck of it, I can do a G3, G4, core2duo, 8-core Mac Pro(the 12 core is still at their house) and a few different generations i5 and i7…or dual and quad core of the same generation, and of course my M1. Some I’ll only be able to do in NikonScan, some only in Vuescan, but a lot of them I’m both.

Also, I failed to ask in all of this what size film you’re using. On 35mm, you likely won’t see a difference with any i series processor(although RAM helps to a point). Medium format separates things a bit more.

 

[Mike Boreham]

Just for the sake of my own knowledge, I’ll try in the next couple of days to do some side by sides on different computers with ICE.

It will have to be on my Coolscan 5000 as my 8000 and V700 are still at my parents house(where they landed in the cracks between my temporary Covid-relocation to there and my wedding, and are one of many things that have yet to make the 300 mile move). Still, though, just for the heck of it, I can do a G3, G4, core2duo, 8-core Mac Pro(the 12 core is still at their house) and a few different generations i5 and i7…or dual and quad core of the same generation, and of course my M1. Some I’ll only be able to do in NikonScan, some only in Vuescan, but a lot of them I’m both.

Also, I failed to ask in all of this what size film you’re using. On 35mm, you likely won’t see a difference with any i series processor(although RAM helps to a point). Medium format separates things a bit more.

Thanks but please don't go to a lot of trouble on my account....but interested if you want to do it for yourself.

I am scanning mostly 35mm, but I do have medium format to scan as well. The proportion of medium format is small enough not to influence a buying decision.

 

[dimme]

Give Vuescan a try https://www.hamrick.com/ I used it years ago on my Epson and so other film scanners I got off of ebay. I think it is way better that silverfast, not as fast as the epson software. It does have a steep learning curve but after you get over the hump it is very good software. I believe there is a free trial.

 

[Mike Boreham]

Give Vuescan a try https://www.hamrick.com/ I used it years ago on my Epson and so other film scanners I got off of ebay. I think it is way better that silverfast, not as fast as the epson software. It does have a steep learning curve but after you get over the hump it is very good software. I believe there is a free trial.

Thanks @dimme. I do have a Vuescan Pro License and have used it with my Reflecta RPS7200 film scanner. As you say a big learning curve and I have never liked it very much, although I know many do.

I have tried to use it with my Epson V600 and it can't detect the scanner, even after taking the recommended troubleshooting steps. I will contact Vuescan for support. It can't be a Silicon or 12.4 problem because it works with my RPS7200.