Disappointed. No 15”/16”, $400 to get to 16GB/512GB. M2 still on TSMC N5. Sitting out this generation.

[16_inch_MacBook_Air_Pls]

The process node is TSMC’s fault for delaying N3. But the lack of a large screen option and the humiliating 8GB/256GB starting config certainly isn’t.

I’ll never render a video in my life but I want a larger screen for office work and content consumption. I’m not paying $2500 for a 16” MacBook Pro just for the screen size.

 

[Love-hate 🍏 relationship]

given the fact that a MBA m2 13 with proper config is already way too close to a MBP 14,a MBA 15 would likely be priced the same nay above it ...which doesn't rly make much sense to me

hence why I'm afraid we may never get a 15 air

time will tell

 

[Love-hate 🍏 relationship]

also you say you wouldn't pay 2600 for it ,but a 16/512 15" would likely be close to that

ok actually I realize it's only true for us eu users (MBP 16 is 2750€ ,MBA m2 16/512 is 1959€....since it starts at 1500€ lmao) where a 15" with 16/512 will probably cost around 2200€ ...tf

 

[ascender]

I also think a 15" Air won't really be an Air.... If you put a 15" screen on it, the footprint is going to have to get much larger which just goes against what the Air is. Don't get me wrong, I'd like one, but I'm not sure how much it would sell - everyone I personally know who has an Air really likes its small footprint meaning they can comfortably work from anywhere.

I also still don't get why people say the entry-level config is so bad. For many people, who don't post on forums like this, its just fine. We often seem to be skewed by thinking everyone who buys Macs shares the views of a lot of us on here.

 

[Love-hate 🍏 relationship]

I also think a 15" Air won't really be an Air.... If you put a 15" screen on it, the footprint is going to have to get much larger which just goes against what the Air is. Don't get me wrong, I'd like one, but I'm not sure how much it would sell - everyone I personally know who has an Air really likes its small footprint meaning they can comfortably work from anywhere.

I also still don't get why people say the entry-level config is so bad. For many people, who don't post on forums like this, its just fine. We often seem to be skewed by thinking everyone who buys Macs shares the views of a lot of us on here.

the price to config ratio i is rather bad

 

[Falhófnir]

Hopefully end of next year, that's the chinese whispers coming from the rumourverse... having said that tbh the 13" M1 MacBook Pro should just have been the 15" model anyway, 13" Air and 15" Pro makes a ton more sense than offering two almost identical models with the key difference being one has a fan to eke 0.2% more performance out of an iPad chip...

 

[IJBrekke]

Apple has deceived us into thinking of larger laptops as needing to be performance-oriented and expensive. The LG Gram 15 and 17 is proof that a larger non-Pro Apple model is possible. Call it whatever you want, but it should replace the 13” MacBook Pro in the lineup and pricing scheme.

 

[BigglyOranje]

also you say you wouldn't pay 2600 for it ,but a 16/512 15" would likely be close to that

ok actually I realize it's only true for us eu users (MBP 16 is 2750€ ,MBA m2 16/512 is 1959€....since it starts at 1500€ lmao) where a 15" with 16/512 will probably cost around 2200€ ...tf

mind that US prices are without sales taxes which vary from state to state (only few states have none) so take the US prices with a pinch of salt. Also, a MBA is 1499 Euros in eg Germany and 1519 in the Netherlands... wtf

 

[Love-hate 🍏 relationship]

mind that US prices are without sales taxes which vary from state to state (only few states have none) so take the US prices with a pinch of salt. Also, a MBA is 1499 Euros in eg Germany and 1519 in the Netherlands... wtf

yeah true

well maybe you have higher taxes or sth in Netherlands? 20 bucks isn't too much , apparently in Italy the MBA got 150€ more expensive

THIS however, THIS ,drives me mad.that the US price of M1 MBA didn't change ,but in the eu it did .+80€ in France ,+150 in Italy apparently+100 in India ...making a 2 yo device whose successor just been released ,not only at the same price ,but above what it was 2 years ago...sneaky

 

[jav6454]

How many times does it need to be stated? Anything higher than 13" defeats the purpose of the MBA.

 

[ArkSingularity]

Apple is likely referring to TSMC's "N5P" process, which is effectively an optimization of their existing N5 node with the same transistor density. It's not 4nm or 3nm (which hasn't even entered production yet), but it does reportedly offer approximately 15% lower power consumption for the same chips running at the same clock speeds. That's definitely nothing to sneeze at and is a pretty decent improvement (both for performance improvements that come from Apple raising the clock speeds, and from improvements in battery life that we will likely see on lighter workloads).

The M3 will almost certainly be manufactured on TSMC's upcoming 3nm process, so we will probably see more substantial upgrades in the next year or so. But in the meantime, the M2 is a pretty nice upgrade, even on the 5nm process. Apple has delivered a pretty decent improvement this generation.

 

[jav6454]

The process node is TSMC’s fault for delaying N3. But the lack of a large screen option and the humiliating 8GB/256GB starting config certainly isn’t.

I’ll never render a video in my life but I want a larger screen for office work and content consumption. I’m not paying $2500 for a 16” MacBook Pro just for the screen size.

Have you even tried the M2 yet? My bet is no. Why not wait until benchmarks and independent reviews are out before calling shenanigans on this?

 

[Mat.Rynio]

The process node is TSMC’s fault for delaying N3. But the lack of a large screen option and the humiliating 8GB/256GB starting config certainly isn’t.

I’ll never render a video in my life but I want a larger screen for office work and content consumption. I’m not paying $2500 for a 16” MacBook Pro just for the screen size.

I got 16" MacBook Pro only because I wanted bigger screen ... I wish Apple had released 15"/16" MacBook Air since I care more about slim form factor than power. Shame. If they release bigger MacBook Air in 2023 I will definitely switch.

 

[16_inch_MacBook_Air_Pls]

Apple is likely referring to TSMC's "N5P" process, which is effectively an optimization of their existing N5 node with the same transistor density. It's not 4nm or 3nm (which hasn't even entered production yet), but it does reportedly offer approximately 15% lower power consumption for the same chips running at the same clock speeds. That's definitely nothing to sneeze at and is a pretty decent improvement (both for performance improvements that come from Apple raising the clock speeds, and from improvements in battery life that we will likely see on lighter workloads).

The M3 will almost certainly be manufactured on TSMC's upcoming 3nm process, so we will probably see more substantial upgrades in the next year or so. But in the meantime, the M2 is a pretty nice upgrade, even on the 5nm process. Apple has delivered a pretty decent improvement this generation.

I agree. M3 will most likely be 3nm. Though TSMC N4 is still a 5nm derivative, with its transistor density being very close to N5. It’s just marketing to make it seem like it’s in between N5 and N3 when in reality it’s like N4.8.

M2 will still be the most power efficient and fastest single thread laptop chip out there. For me it’s more that getting on the tail end of N5 is intellectually annoying. N3 enters volume production in H2 2022 and ships in the first consumer products in H1 2023. The fact that 2 years after M1 launched I’m still buying an N5 chip just seems like a bad deal. Add to that no big screen option and $400 RAM/SSD upgrade, it’s just not worth it for me.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I know so many folks who would buy a larger Air

None of them need more power, but they badly want more screen size

 

[16_inch_MacBook_Air_Pls]

Have you even tried the M2 yet? My bet is no. Why not wait until benchmarks and independent reviews are out before calling shenanigans on this?

I have no doubt it will be very fast and very power efficient. Because M1 is already class leading.


I’m saying that it’s still built on TSMC N5 process node, which is confirmed by Apple’s marketing slide. N3 would be a much more significant upgrade and I’m disappointed that 2 years after M1 Apple is still on the same node.

 

[16_inch_MacBook_Air_Pls]

given the fact that a MBA m2 13 with proper config is already way too close to a MBP 14,a MBA 15 would likely be priced the same nay above it ...which doesn't rly make much sense to me

hence why I'm afraid we may never get a 15 air

time will tell

Let’s say Apple charges $200 extra for the bigger screen. 1200+400+200=1800, which is 200 less than 16GB/512GB MacBook Pro 14”.

So a 14” Pro will have mini LED, Pro chip, and a smaller screen over a theoretical 16” Air. I’d say that’s okay. A little awkward yes, but many rumors are pointing to an iPhone 14 Max, which also has a similar relation to the iPhone 14 Pro. Larger screen but cheaper and less Pro than the smaller Pro phone.

 

[jdb8167]

I have no doubt it will be very fast and very power efficient. Because M1 is already class leading.


I’m saying that it’s still built on TSMC N5 process node, which is confirmed by Apple’s marketing slide. N3 would be a much more significant upgrade and I’m disappointed that 2 years after M1 Apple is still on the same node.

It's been ~18 months not 24 months. TSMC doesn't have any customers using their N3 node yet. Apple is likely to be one of the first if not absolutely the first. TSMC does have an N4 node but reports are that Apple isn't using it. It is still possible that the upcoming A16 for the iPhone Pro will use the N4 node this September though. So after 18 months, Apple is using the smallest, latest node available from TSMC. There is not much to be disappointed about. The N3 node is coming next year. Whatever the Apple silicon Mac Pro is going to use is also still scheduled for this year.

 

[jav6454]

I have no doubt it will be very fast and very power efficient. Because M1 is already class leading.


I’m saying that it’s still built on TSMC N5 process node, which is confirmed by Apple’s marketing slide. N3 would be a much more significant upgrade and I’m disappointed that 2 years after M1 Apple is still on the same node.

I would doubt the energy efficiency as Apple's own graphs show an increase in idle wattage versus the M1.

 

[16_inch_MacBook_Air_Pls]

I would doubt the energy efficiency as Apple's own graphs show an increase in idle wattage versus the M1.

I saw the graph. They ended the M2’s curve before it would show M2 using higher power than M1 at low frequency.

Though M2 will still be plenty efficient I believe. It’s unlikely that Apple managed to make it significantly worse at idle compared to M1

Either way I’m waiting for N3 based Apple silicon MacBook Air, preferably in 15”/16” screen size.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I saw the graph. They ended the M2’s curve before it would show M2 using higher power than M1 at low frequency.

Apples graphs are such a bunch of weirdly chosen cherry picked things

They are a modern version of the old Bezos Charts that he'd pull out at Amazon events/briefings

 

[Love-hate 🍏 relationship]

Let’s say Apple charges $200 extra for the bigger screen. 1200+400+200=1800, which is 200 less than 16GB/512GB MacBook Pro 14”.

So a 14” Pro will have mini LED, Pro chip, and a smaller screen over a theoretical 16” Air. I’d say that’s okay. A little awkward yes, but many rumors are pointing to an iPhone 14 Max, which also has a similar relation to the iPhone 14 Pro. Larger screen but cheaper and less Pro than the smaller Pro phone.

well for starters im afraid they might make the gap bigger than 200 bucks...after all,there is a 500 dollars difference between the 14 and 16

secondly stop dreaming about 16 air , 15 is already so unlikely lol

we shall see with the 14 max pricing then

 

[16_inch_MacBook_Air_Pls]

well for starters im afraid they might make the gap bigger than 200 bucks...after all,there is a 500 dollars difference between the 14 and 16

secondly stop dreaming about 16 air , 15 is already so unlikely lol

we shall see with the 14 max pricing then

Good points. But the people who buy 16” Pro are either actual professionals or rich people who don’t care. So they wouldn’t mind paying $2500 instead of $2200.

Let me dream ((((

Regular iPhone 14 $799. 14 Max will be $899. 14 Pro $999 or 1099. 14 Pro Max $1099 or 1199 is my guess. Demand at the high end tends to be less elastic as upper middle class and above don’t really care about $100-200 difference when buying electronics

 

[Student of Life]

Good points. But the people who buy 16” Pro are either actual professionals or rich people who don’t care. So they wouldn’t mind paying $2500 instead of $2200.

Let me dream ((((

Regular iPhone 14 $799. 14 Max will be $899. 14 Pro $999 or 1099. 14 Pro Max $1099 or 1199 is my guess. Demand at the high end tends to be less elastic as upper middle class and above don’t really care about $100-200 difference when buying electronics

Look for the 16 inch MacBook Pro on the refurbished store. Or if price is an issue and you want size, just get the 13 Air and + iPad of your choice/budget and you can use side car and universal control on it. That will give you more space than the 16 at a lower price and you also have an iPad. Walmart has the iPad Air 4 for 400, add the m1 MacBook Air for 1000 and in total pre tax and pre apple care you spend 1400 and have 13+10.9 screens at your disposal.

 

[16_inch_MacBook_Air_Pls]

Look for the 16 inch MacBook Pro on the refurbished store. Or if price is an issue and you want size, just get the 13 Air and + iPad of your choice/budget and you can use side car and universal control on it. That will give you more space than the 16 at a lower price and you also have an iPad. Walmart has the iPad Air 4 for 400, add the m1 MacBook Air for 1000 and in total pre tax and pre apple care you spend 1400 and have 13+10.9 screens at your disposal.

Very smart idea! Though personally I prefer a single large screen to type on to 2 separate smaller screens, even if the 2 separate ones have higher total area.