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Display Panel quality on new iMac 20" is inferior

A

AnalyzeThis

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Sep 8, 2007
443
1
Folks,

I have previous iMac generation and was looking to get another unit for my kid. I went to Apple store and took a look at new iMac 20" and 24".

I noticed right away that 20" display panel is way lower quality vs. previous iMac 20". New iMac 24" is ok (same panel used), besides the fact it could not be used for Graphics Art mastering due to Glossy glass finish.

New 20" looks washed out and over bright, even adjusted to lower brightness.
Also, by the specs view angles are smaller a bit, but old panel keeps colors consistent with-in specs and beyond vs. new panel will produce huge variances in color depending on view angle even with-in specs. It almost looks like the old 17" iMac panel, entry level MBP, and MB.

Interesting enough - Apple ordered stores to sent old iMac units back including display units. One of the possible reasons: when available side-by-side - it will be too apparent for consumers to see degradation in quality. Usually, it takes time to get rid of old model stock. Not in this case - old units flew off the shelves in a matter of 2 weeks. If you try to find the old unit - good luck. B&H has a few left for original price ($1498). Few others will want more than original price ($1699+). And some without reputation will want $1299 (if you willing to take risk).


What do you think happened?

I think Apple feel iMacs are eroding up Mac Pro sales and decided to force Pros to high-end MBP and Mac Pro.

So long the "affordable" Mac for digital imaging - it is only consumers from now on...
 
I think there are threads on this subject already that you could have contributed to?
But while im here.. Its not as good as previous iMacs. But its not that bad either. Especially after recalibrating, and when used in a suitably lit room.
 
AnalyzeThis said:
What do you think happened?
Click to expand...

Panel manufacturers (LG.Philips in the case of Apples supplier) are producing larger sizes driven by consumer demand (size over higher spec matrix quality). General purpose 17 and 20" IPS panels are being overtaken by cheaper TN Film based panels - mostly for the cheaper end of the consumer & business PC market.
 
to be fair

The new iMacs are priced CHEAPER than the old iMacs

While the panel type is now cheaper (just like the old 17'' was a TN panel), so is the price of the iMac.
 
I agree, I did not notice the previous post

The issue is - new iMac could be awesome with an old panel and mate option.
But for some reason Apple decided otherwise and then did something very cheesy with the old inventory (treated it as some kind of disease that needs to be liquidated right away).
 
AnalyzeThis said:
The issue is - new iMac could be awesome with an old panel and mate option.
But for some reason Apple decided otherwise and then did something very cheesy with the old inventory (treated it as some kind of disease that needs to be liquidated right away).
Click to expand...

I think Apple always gets rid of old stock from it's stores, this isn't some vast Apple conspiracy to foist inferior panels on you and hide the fact. Try and find the old keyboard in an Apple store...do you think it's because they don't want people to compare it to the new one?

If you want an old 20'', just go to the refurb store (that's also where the returned inventory is going, likely)....Apple just made a trade-off: they used a cheaper-to-buy LCD panel to sell a lower-cost iMac to more people--the majority of whom are fine with TN panels, etc.

You're not fine with a TN panel, so you know not to buy the new 20'' iMac.
 
The entry level is cheeper, not the nid range

I have not issue with cheaper iMac 20".

But the same panel is used in midrange iMac 20" $1499. So it makes it a cheat.

Also 24" is cheaper $200, but using same quality panel.

So when you buy 1499 20" model you are subsidizing folks who bought 24" and cheaper 20". Very nice arrangement - don't you think?

I have no grudges against Apple. I like their products very much and enjoy them every day. I just want them to continue innovate and get better quality for less, as it is tempting to do the opposite in effort to attract more users.
 
It's not just a matter of you not noticing "the" other post about this. There have been many, many discussions about this over the last month. It's been talked about to death, in fact.

Everyone knows they switched to a TN panel at this point. Everyone knows the advantages other panel types have over TN panels by now as well. And if they didn't, it wouldn't take them long to see one of the many discussions about it. You're not bringing up anything new. If this thread was in the gaming forum it would have been unceremoniously dumped into to mega thread of all iMac panel discussions that the mods would have created by now.

For MOST people, especially the typical iMac buyer, it's not going to matter. I've looked at the displays side by side and the difference is minimal. The improved contrast and color saturation may not be technically accurate but it makes the display look great even when you set it right next to the technically superior device, and really that's all that matters to the typical buyer.

MOST of us aren't trying to do print accurate color correction on photos. Most of us don't make a living editing graphics. For those of you ho do, the new iMac probably isn't a great choice. Get a second S-IPS display to use with your 20" iMac, buy a 24", or get a Mac pro.
 
A lot of discussions about iMac 20" panels?

I am not sure what you are referring to...
I was monitoring MacRomors for over a month. Yes there were some complains about strange yellow spots on the monitor, specs of dust behind glass. Absolutely nothing about this very obvious issue. Or may be I did not look in the right place. Now I know.

If we will shut up - Apple will never hear our voices and next thing would be - all macs will come with low “optical quality” panels across the board. And we should deserve it.

I should correct myself - actually all macs come with very high quality components including new 20" panels.

The correct subject would be “optical quality” of new 20” panels are not very exciting to (quote) many folks talking on many forums about it to death.

IPhone folks finally got Jobs' attention and he addressed it to some degree.

Apple could charge an extra for the old matte panel. Folks who need it should not have problem with it. But they could not make this choice as matte is taken away completely, period. Deciding for the buyer is not a good trend.


I also could not recommend it to any of my friends anymore because of it. If it will continue I would not be able to recommend any mac…

Yes not many of us use color profiles correctly, but we pretend and act as we do when we buy a new computer and considering its options. And then never use it…
 
I sent email to Steve Jobs

Will see what he would say about it...

BTW, the issue has nothing to do with color profiles. It is optical quality of the panel and could not be corrected with brightness or color setting. The only way to correct is to replace it with old panels and enjoy your new iMac like never before...
 
This is typical TN panel behaviour. If you don't like it (and I include myself in that), upgrade to a 24".

The panel manufacturers are only making large IPS and *VA panels now, so it is no surprise Apple went with TN for the smaller 20" screens.
 
l33r0y said:
This is typical TN panel behaviour. If you don't like it (and I include myself in that), upgrade to a 24".

The panel manufacturers are only making large IPS and *VA panels now, so it is no surprise Apple went with TN for the smaller 20" screens.
Click to expand...

Dell's 20'' widescreen (2007WFP) is an S-IPS panel (well, I guess if you win the panel lottery it is). But, I believe that's the same S-IPS panel that was in the white 20'' iMac.

Did they really stop making them, or is this merely a cost-cutting choice made by Apple? As most of these threads point out, TN panels are fine for most people (read: they don't even know or notice the difference).
 
l33r0y said:
This is typical TN panel behaviour. If you don't like it (and I include myself in that), upgrade to a 24".

The panel manufacturers are only making large IPS and *VA panels now, so it is no surprise Apple went with TN for the smaller 20" screens.
Click to expand...

My present TN display doesn't look as crappy as the imac 20" does, so apple most have something worse than TN.
 
Okay. Here's the be-all and end-all statement for all of these iMac-hating threads.

The iMac 20" has a TN flat panel that is in-superior to the S-IPS panel in the previous iMac. It sucks, and so does the graphics card that powers it. Now lets all buy them because they look awesome, and keep our negative opinions to ourselves. :D.
 
This is seriously getting ridiculous. Everyone knows that there is a TN panel in the 20" and a IPS in the 24". Everyone knows that a IPS is better than TN ...... yadda yadda yadda. Do we really need to have another thread about this?............ I think not! It's getting really, really, REALLY old.
 
Besides ...

prs986 said:
This is seriously getting ridiculous. Everyone knows that there is a TN panel in the 20" and a IPS in the 24". Everyone knows that a IPS is better than TN ...... yadda yadda yadda. Do we really need to have another thread about this?............ I think not! It's getting really, really, REALLY old.
Click to expand...

After carefully reading the OP's original post, he complains about nothing specific! He is just a Troll.

BTW, if you want to reduce brightness below what Apple minimum level is (almost no reduction), try this:

Brightness Control
 
tried the window trick, dragging an open window to the bottom. it's hard to tell, the color of the title bar may lighten up some

and yes, If I turn the imac 30 degree to the side, the colors change some... but I dont view the screen that way. I work on it looking straight at it, not from an angle.

If apple used cheaper parts on the new imacs, that sorta sucks.
 
Possible Panel Lottery

I just posted this in another thread, but it seems relevant here as well:

There may be a panel lottery for the 20" iMac. In this thread, at least one user reported having panel identifier 9C6B when everyone else had 9C6A. It's possible these panels may have different manufacturers/characteristics, which may be why some people notice a more pronounced color shift than others.

BTW, the best way I've found to identify the real panel manufacturer and model is by doing a DDC export with the SwitchResX utility.
Click to expand...
 
paetrick said:
But you are saying that it's less obvious on your screen? (if you compare http://www.silvermac.com/2007/imac-colours-washed-out/)
Click to expand...

I was checking out an option instead of buying iMac, my thought was 22" Hp and a Mac mini.

But when I looked at pictures on the 22" HP I saw something, it's just the same as on the iMac:

I guess the 20" iMac will due =P (ordering)

Same on the 300 dollar Samsung 22" screen!
 

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