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Codeseven

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Dec 31, 2008
849
344
I already had an interest in photography, but after being a production assistant to a professional photographer shooting models (and him kindly teaching me the basics while I was using his secondary camera) I’m now very interested in getting into photography. For now, all I have is an iPad Pro (1Tb/6Gb memory) and a borrowed DSLR.

Software: I’ve been using Lightroom, which seems great. Should I also be using Photoshop to edit? Which (iOS) version?

Monitor: The iPads screen is a bit small to edit on, can my iPad be connected to a monitor?

External Drive: Even tho I have a mostly empty internal 1Tb Drive, I would imagine I will want to be exporting large image files somewhere. iPadOS allows for use of an external drive, what size drive should I be looking to buy?

Plan B: Don’t use the iPad. Buy a decent laptop or iMac with a big screen and external drive.

Camera: (you knew the new guy was going to ask) I’ve been looking over reviews for ‘Best Beginner DSLR’s’. I like to buy good things that I hang on to for a long time (I still have a beat up 2008 MBP that’s been relegated to recording music) so I don’t want a ‘cheap’ camera that will make me regret not getting a better one or that I’ll grow out of quickly. Any suggestions? Thanks!
 
Last edited:

Darmok N Jalad

macrumors 603
Sep 26, 2017
5,425
48,332
Tanagra (not really)
I've done editing on an iPad Pro before, and there the 12.9" model is very beneficial. Affinity Photo is a fantastic app on iOS as well. Lesser size screens on iPads can just feel too cramped. I wouldn't stay with it long, but they can do okay in a pinch.

Software is a tough one. Adobe now uses a subscription model, which I think is great if you are a heavy user, but not so much if you're a hobbyist. There are other decent options, and they offer trials. However, if you're just beginning to get into editing, you may not know what you prefer!

Should you go the purchase route, a good 27" iMac will go a long way. It's hard to recommend a very powerful machine like a loaded iMac Pro or Mac Pro if you're just starting off.

Personally, I use a custom Windows machine (9600K, 16GB RAM, RX570) connected to a decent 27" 4K monitor. I'm not a heavy user, but I find this machine to be more than good enough for my 20MP RAW edits.

Camera? That's like 7 threads in itself. You can always work your way up though. What you are willing to pay is a major factor.
 
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mpfuchs

macrumors 6502a
Sep 19, 2014
519
1,379
VA
Get a Mac mini and choose a monitor that works for you. I'm sure you've used some on your job to have an opinion on that. It's modular and you can always upgrade to a bigger size, 4k, 5k etc.

I'm not going to touch the question about what camera to get :D
 
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themumu

macrumors 6502a
Feb 13, 2011
727
644
Sunnyvale
As far as picking cameras, there are several major forks in that road that you have to consider.

1. What form factor will fit you best?
Some people just go at it with an iPhone (I'm super excited to see for myself what the new ones are capable of), you can get a mirrorless - full frame or not, you can go traditional DSLR, you can go something niche like the Fuji X100F. I have an older gen X100S and it's surprisingly good for an older camera, I have a hard time justifying buying a new one considering that it's going to be either rather expensive (although that's a relative term), or improvement will be rather marginal.

This one is also related to what you plan to shoot. Are you looking to shoot models, like your mentor? Landscapes? Travel photography? Street, city scapes? Smaller form factors are definitely a plus if you're going to be on the go a lot, but matter little in the studio. Same for the tablet/computer. If you were to travel a lot and wanting to share/edit on the go, a tablet might make sense, but if you're always editing at home/office, a full sized ergonomically positioned screen is so much better for your eyes.

2. How much are you willing to spend?
This is strongly correlated with your answer to above, as a full frame mirrorless will obviously cost more than something with a crop sensor. On the other hand, traditional DSLs are probably going to be a rather good value, especially on the used market as people are ditching them for mirrorless.

3. Which camera's ergonomics, UI and color rendition you prefer?
This is mostly a manufacturer's type of thing. For example, Sony's menu system drives me insane. As much as I found to be exceptional in image quality, I just know I will hate myself if I have to deal with them every day. Obviously, it's not the same for many people who love them. I like the way Fuji processes JPEGs when you set Velvia emulation on. I like their knobs. Nikon does not irritate me, and I can set it to provide the color and contrast that really pleases me. Some people just shoot raw and do their own processing, but it takes time to develop a routine you are happy with. For a beginner, I'd focus more on actual shooting and just do some basic post processing. You generally have the option to save both raw+JPEG, so having something usable out of camera is nice to get a sense of what you are shooting, and if you are the type to go tinker with the raw file later - you have that choice.

Now, how do you determine the answers? Well, trial and error is best way. I was recently on the receiving end of a few emails from Amazon, asking what can they do to make me stop returning so much stuff. Years ago I would be doing this with Best Buy, who had a more limited way of tracking me as a customer, now it's so easy to just order tons of gear to try and return what you don't like. Be realistic, don't place the order for something that is way out of your budget. If you like it, it will be such anguish to return it, you might decide to keep it and your bank account will hate you. And your resident household CFO, too, if you have one.

Don't be afraid to grow out of things. It's how you learn. Buying used gear will greatly reduce the financial cost of doing that.
 

kallisti

macrumors 68000
Apr 22, 2003
1,751
6,670
As far as picking cameras, there are several major forks in that road that you have to consider.

1. What form factor will fit you best?
Some people just go at it with an iPhone (I'm super excited to see for myself what the new ones are capable of), you can get a mirrorless - full frame or not, you can go traditional DSLR, you can go something niche like the Fuji X100F. I have an older gen X100S and it's surprisingly good for an older camera, I have a hard time justifying buying a new one considering that it's going to be either rather expensive (although that's a relative term), or improvement will be rather marginal.

This one is also related to what you plan to shoot. Are you looking to shoot models, like your mentor? Landscapes? Travel photography? Street, city scapes? Smaller form factors are definitely a plus if you're going to be on the go a lot, but matter little in the studio. Same for the tablet/computer. If you were to travel a lot and wanting to share/edit on the go, a tablet might make sense, but if you're always editing at home/office, a full sized ergonomically positioned screen is so much better for your eyes.

2. How much are you willing to spend?
This is strongly correlated with your answer to above, as a full frame mirrorless will obviously cost more than something with a crop sensor. On the other hand, traditional DSLs are probably going to be a rather good value, especially on the used market as people are ditching them for mirrorless.

3. Which camera's ergonomics, UI and color rendition you prefer?
This is mostly a manufacturer's type of thing. For example, Sony's menu system drives me insane. As much as I found to be exceptional in image quality, I just know I will hate myself if I have to deal with them every day. Obviously, it's not the same for many people who love them. I like the way Fuji processes JPEGs when you set Velvia emulation on. I like their knobs. Nikon does not irritate me, and I can set it to provide the color and contrast that really pleases me. Some people just shoot raw and do their own processing, but it takes time to develop a routine you are happy with. For a beginner, I'd focus more on actual shooting and just do some basic post processing. You generally have the option to save both raw+JPEG, so having something usable out of camera is nice to get a sense of what you are shooting, and if you are the type to go tinker with the raw file later - you have that choice.

Now, how do you determine the answers? Well, trial and error is best way. I was recently on the receiving end of a few emails from Amazon, asking what can they do to make me stop returning so much stuff. Years ago I would be doing this with Best Buy, who had a more limited way of tracking me as a customer, now it's so easy to just order tons of gear to try and return what you don't like. Be realistic, don't place the order for something that is way out of your budget. If you like it, it will be such anguish to return it, you might decide to keep it and your bank account will hate you. And your resident household CFO, too, if you have one.

Don't be afraid to grow out of things. It's how you learn. Buying used gear will greatly reduce the financial cost of doing that.

I agree that this is a good reply regarding camera choice when just starting out.

For a first camera I'm not sure how much "which camera should I buy?" ultimately matters. You will definitely want something that can shoot RAW. You will also want something where it is easy to change important settings without digging through menus (i.e. choosing shooting mode like aperture priority, shutter priority, or manual). This is something that actually matters. Digging through menus to change shooting modes is extremely frustrating. It's also nice to have physical dials to adjust aperture if you are in aperture priority mode or shutter speed if you are in shutter priority mode. You don't want to have to change these important variables via a menu.

When you buy a camera, you are also buying into that manufacturer's system. This relates both to ease of use (i.e. that manufacturer's design philosophy regarding UI elements) and also lens offerings. When starting out, this doesn't matter so much (though the menu systems can either be intuitive or frustrating--I'm looking at you Sony in the latter regard). But even that isn't vital. With use you get familiar with how the menus work and where to go to make specific changes.

The lens options can become extremely important later on, but they are irrelevant when starting out. With experience you may find later that a certain manufacturer offers better lens choices for what you need. That's fine. It's okay to switch later on as you gain more experience and have a better sense of what you really need for your vision. But there is zero chance that your first body and first lens choice is going to lock you into any brand permanently. If you reach a point where you are considering spending serious money on a body or a set of lenses, you will hopefully know at that point *why* you are choosing one system over another or *why* you need to spend your money on a certain lens. An entry-level body with a kit lens will be a drop in the bucket financially at that point (i.e. you aren't likely to be sticking with either after a certain point). Or stated another way, switching to a different system for whatever reason isn't going to be a huge financial decision as you won't have invested much in your starting system. At that point you will (hopefully) have valid reasons to justify your purchases.

A big part of starting out in photography is learning the basics of photography. Things like composition, exposure, light. Almost any camera is a suitable tool for this. Don't obsess about brand. Don't obsess about lens or camera reviews. Place your emphasis on learning the basics of photography. As long as your camera doesn't get in the way (i.e. force you to spend time thinking about which menu you have to enter to change an important setting) it's all good.

There *are* differences between cameras and lenses that ultimately impact image quality. Or differences that make some images easier to obtain. At some point that may be important for your photography. When starting out, they aren't important.

The two things I would suggest regarding gear when starting out would be to get a "fast" prime in the "normal" focal length range (i.e. something with a maximal aperture of around f/1.8 and a focal length of 50mm with a full frame sensor (35mm with a crop sensor)). These lenses are offered for most camera systems and they tend to be inexpensive. They are very useful for general shooting and are also great learning tools.

The other thing I would suggest is getting a tripod. It's okay to start out with a cheap tripod. You can upgrade it later. But a tripod is important for many types of photography and it is also an important learning tool--allowing you to see the effects of slow shutter speeds. Some would argue to avoid buying a cheap tripod as you will almost certainly want to replace it with a "good" tripod later. While true, it is the same argument that you should buy a "good" body and "good" lenses to start off since you will probably be replacing them later.

My counter-argument would be that it's okay to spend a small amount of money for a "learning" kit that will be adequate for where you are now--learning photography. At some point down the road the "learning" kit may not be adequate for your needs. Fine. But you didn't sink that much money into it. Once you know that photography is something that you care about, you can make informed choices about what gear you really need to create the images you want (made easier by your experience using your starting gear--how is my starting gear limiting me?). But until then, I'm not sure it makes any sense to invest in "good" gear until your skills are such that you can make the best use of it.

Photography can easily turn into a money pit. Sometimes this is because one really needs specific (and expensive) gear to get the image you want. However, when starting out it is easy (and natural) to blame mediocre results on gear--if only I invest more money to buy x body or y lens, my images will then be awesome. This is almost never the case. Learn photography first and let your experience guide you in how gear purchases may improve your images. A well composed, properly exposed, and properly lit image with "inferior" gear will almost always be better than a poorly composed, improperly exposed, or improperly lit image taken with the "best" gear.
 
Last edited:

themumu

macrumors 6502a
Feb 13, 2011
727
644
Sunnyvale
@themumu this is probably one of the best and most objective replies to the camera question I've read!
As for the trial and error part, it's best to go to a camera store and try them first hand, if at all possible.

One reason I don't suggest going to the physical store when online shopping is available is because:

1. Store clerks more often that not will steer you to what profitable for them, not what's better for you.
2. You will feel super uncomfortable staying there for hours and hours trying things out. Plus it's not the most realistic kind of testing, especially if your goal is outdoor photography.
3. You may feel like you "owe" them something for "wasting" their time trying out tons of gear, and feel pressured to buy. There is less of that with online shopping, and most online stores have way better return policies than the local stores in my area.

Plus I have to give +100 to @kallisti that photography (like many other hobbies) can turn into a money pit if you start thinking that more expensive gear is what really separates you from the spectacular results you crave. Sure, a medium format Fuji GFX 50R is sharp. Super sharp, crazy sharp. Some may even be right in saying that at $6K+ that kit is actually a bargain. But is it actually going to make you take more purposeful, thoughtful and thought provoking photos? Doubtful.
 

Codeseven

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Dec 31, 2008
849
344
Wow, you all went above and beyond with your replies, I really appreciate that. Later, I’ll be able to read back over them and give a more thoughtful reply, in the mean time....many thanks!
 

Codeseven

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Dec 31, 2008
849
344
As far as picking cameras, there are several major forks in that road that you have to consider.

1. What form factor will fit you best?
Some people just go at it with an iPhone (I'm super excited to see for myself what the new ones are capable of), you can get a mirrorless - full frame or not, you can go traditional DSLR, you can go something niche like the Fuji X100F. I have an older gen X100S and it's surprisingly good for an older camera, I have a hard time justifying buying a new one considering that it's going to be either rather expensive (although that's a relative term), or improvement will be rather marginal.

This one is also related to what you plan to shoot. Are you looking to shoot models, like your mentor? Landscapes? Travel photography? Street, city scapes? Smaller form factors are definitely a plus if you're going to be on the go a lot, but matter little in the studio. Same for the tablet/computer. If you were to travel a lot and wanting to share/edit on the go, a tablet might make sense, but if you're always editing at home/office, a full sized ergonomically positioned screen is so much better for your eyes.

2. How much are you willing to spend?
This is strongly correlated with your answer to above, as a full frame mirrorless will obviously cost more than something with a crop sensor. On the other hand, traditional DSLs are probably going to be a rather good value, especially on the used market as people are ditching them for mirrorless.

3. Which camera's ergonomics, UI and color rendition you prefer?
This is mostly a manufacturer's type of thing. For example, Sony's menu system drives me insane. As much as I found to be exceptional in image quality, I just know I will hate myself if I have to deal with them every day. Obviously, it's not the same for many people who love them. I like the way Fuji processes JPEGs when you set Velvia emulation on. I like their knobs. Nikon does not irritate me, and I can set it to provide the color and contrast that really pleases me. Some people just shoot raw and do their own processing, but it takes time to develop a routine you are happy with. For a beginner, I'd focus more on actual shooting and just do some basic post processing. You generally have the option to save both raw+JPEG, so having something usable out of camera is nice to get a sense of what you are shooting, and if you are the type to go tinker with the raw file later - you have that choice.

Now, how do you determine the answers? Well, trial and error is best way. I was recently on the receiving end of a few emails from Amazon, asking what can they do to make me stop returning so much stuff. Years ago I would be doing this with Best Buy, who had a more limited way of tracking me as a customer, now it's so easy to just order tons of gear to try and return what you don't like. Be realistic, don't place the order for something that is way out of your budget. If you like it, it will be such anguish to return it, you might decide to keep it and your bank account will hate you. And your resident household CFO, too, if you have one.

Don't be afraid to grow out of things. It's how you learn. Buying used gear will greatly reduce the financial cost of doing that.

1) I’ll definitely go used. I agree, I’m too new to know what works for me or not. I plan on doing model photograph, that entails studio time but much of it was on location.

2) I’m thinking around $400(?) just for a good body.

3) The camera lent to me is a Sony a7. The menus do seem cumbersome and difficult to navigate. Another good photographer friend of mine uses Canon and the menus seem to be more intuitive to me. I’ll be in contact with him most of the time so it might be better for me to go Canon so that I can readily have any questions about it explained to me. I agree about NOT trying out expensive equipment, it’s way too easy to fall in love with all the shiny bells and whistles (before you don’t even know what they do) and end up taking a financial hit.
 

mofunk

macrumors 68020
Aug 26, 2009
2,421
161
Americas
I would suggest getting a used body from B&H or KEH.com. Choose Nikon or Canon. Pick on with features you would like to use. If you're not going to shoot a lot of video check those DSLR that are 2 versions behind the current. I'm familiar with Nikon so a D7100 or D7000. What ever is similar in specs to a Canon is good. Nikon I like best on a budget because their older lenses can be used on a newer body.

good luck.
 
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someoldguy

macrumors 68030
Aug 2, 2009
2,806
13,993
usa
There's also the manufacturer refurb. sites . Canon and Nikon have them , and I suspect the others (Sony,Panasonic,Olympus,Pentax ) may have them , too .
 
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seadragon

macrumors 68000
Mar 10, 2009
1,872
3,151
Hi seadragon. What is your work flow? Which model of iPad Pro are you using? Thanks

Basic workflow is:

Shoot raw photos with camera.
Turn on airplane mode on iPad (to prevent iCloud photos sync)
Import raws to Photos on iPad via Lightning SD card reader.
Import raws from Photos to Lightroom CC app.
Delete raws from Photos (they are in Lightroom now).
Process photos in Lightroom CC (sometimes using the handy Apple Pencil).
Export processed photos as jpegs to Photos app.
Upload processed photos to social media and website.

That describes what I have been doing up until iOS 13. With iOS 13, Apple provides the ability to read directly from the SD card. However, Adobe has still not provided an ability in Lightroom to import directly from the card. You can go into the Files app and share the photos on the card to Lightroom but there is a 10 photo limit from what I've been reading. I'm still working out a new workflow based on iOS 13.

Overall, I've been very happy with using the iPad for this. I no longer bring a laptop with me on trips.
 
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mmomega

macrumors demi-god
Dec 30, 2009
3,888
2,101
DFW, TX
I already had an interest in photography, but after being a production assistant to a professional photographer shooting models (and him kindly teaching me the basics while I was using his secondary camera) I’m now very interested in getting into photography. For now, all I have is an iPad Pro (1Tb/6Gb memory) and a borrowed DSLR.

Software: I’ve been using Lightroom, which seems great. Should I also be using Photoshop to edit? Which (iOS) version?

Monitor: The iPads screen is a bit small to edit on, can my iPad be connected to a monitor?

External Drive: Even tho I have a mostly empty internal 1Tb Drive, I would imagine I will want to be exporting large image files somewhere. iPadOS allows for use of an external drive, what size drive should I be looking to buy?

Plan B: Don’t use the iPad. Buy a decent laptop or iMac with a big screen and external drive.

Camera: (you knew the new guy was going to ask) I’ve been looking over reviews for ‘Best Beginner DSLR’s’. I like to buy good things that I hang on to for a long time (I still have a beat up 2008 MBP that’s been relegated to recording music) so I don’t want a ‘cheap’ camera that will make me regret not getting a better one or that I’ll grow out of quickly. Any suggestions? Thanks!
A friend of mine's girlfriend has made a living the last few years on an a6000 and iPad Pro. She just recently jumped to an A72.
High megapixels do not make photos more interesting to look at. Spend a lot of time pressing that shutter button and looking at your photos and honing your style, then invest in better tools. My opinion.
 
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