MP 1,1-5,1 Do the older Mac Pros from (2009-2012) still work in the present era?

[CarnelianClout]

I was considering purchasing an older Mac Pro as a secondary desktop. Am just curious about how reliable these things are in this day and age, and if it's possible to upgrade them to modern spec. I know nothing about this sort of thing, so I am just looking for answers.

 

[avro707]

both of my 5,1s are up to date with 12.6.8 Monterey.

Upgrades:
Both have upgraded BCM94360CD wifi/Bluetooth (replaces the standard one, connects to standard Bluetooth antenna)

One has RX580 GPU, the other has RX6600XT GPU (better)

Both have X5690 CPUs, one is single CPU, the other dual.

Both use 1333mhz DDR3 ram and Samsung SSDs.

Both running Martin Lo’s opencore package.
The single CPU machine is a bit better, it runs cooler and quieter and the RX6600XT (bios flashed) is a much better GPU than RX580.


My normal Mac Pro machines are a 7,1 and maximum spec 6,1. These are both simpler to deal with because they don’t need opencore.

 

[apostolosdt]

They work just fine. I have a 2012 5,1 MP running Mojave plus MS Office, Affinity Photo, and Photoshop; I also run Windows 10 and various Linux distros as VM on Parallels. I used to have a 2009 4,1 MP that ran El Capitan and also worked flawlessly, but I sold it to finance some other Mac purchases.

All these MPs you are considering are highly upgradeable. RAM is cheap, you can easily install up to 128 GB; same ease with hard disks (SSD, too). The only problem might be the video cards---you can find various choices up to 3GB, but bigger ones are a bit expensive.

Hope that helps.

 

[m4v3r1ck]

I know nothing about this sort of thing, so I am just looking for answers.

Rethink your options for an older Mac Pro 3.1 - 5.1 unless you're able to maintain - hardware and software - them yourself or at a certain cost by a third party. I agree with the two members above about the flex in upgrades.

 

[nettmanek]

It all depends from your needs, cMP 5.1 maxed out is very powerful machine for very low money but requires from you a knowledge how to maintain it, even simple stuff such as changing thermal paste or upgrade system with opencore to the newer version - if you are not confident with this kind of activities, you will have to pay somebody for that and this will
Strongly increase cost of buying that kind of machine

 

[CarnelianClout]

They work just fine. I have a 2012 5,1 MP running Mojave plus MS Office, Affinity Photo, and Photoshop; I also run Windows 10 and various Linux distros as VM on Parallels. I used to have a 2009 4,1 MP that ran El Capitan and also worked flawlessly, but I sold it to finance some other Mac purchases.

All these MPs you are considering are highly upgradeable. RAM is cheap, you can easily install up to 128 GB; same ease with hard disks (SSD, too). The only problem might be the video cards---you can find various choices up to 3GB, but bigger ones are a bit expensive.

Hope that helps.

I imagine that it may be possible to find some of these systems on Ebay for a decent price, though, I know nothing about upgrading them. Would older OSs like Mojave be able to access Imessage and most browsers in 2023? How is the power consumption of these systems?

 

[chrfr]

I imagine that it may be possible to find some of these systems on Ebay for a decent price, though, I know nothing about upgrading them. Would older OSs like Mojave be able to access Imessage and most browsers in 2023? How is the power consumption of these systems?

They're extremely power inefficient and not actually very fast compared to more modern computers. Depending on what you're doing a newer Mac mini may be more than sufficient and in some cases would outperform a Mac Pro while using far less power. For just web and instant messaging use, an old Mac Pro would make no sense.

 

[CarnelianClout]

They're extremely power inefficient and not actually very fast compared to more modern computers. Depending on what you're doing a newer Mac mini may be more than sufficient and in some cases would outperform a Mac Pro while using far less power. For just web and instant messaging use, an old Mac Pro would make no sense.

That makes sense. I have a brand new Mac Mini, so an old Mac Pro may not be suitable for my purposes, probably the main reason I'd get one would be for nostalgia.

 

[avro707]

If someone is buying a Mac Pro, they don't care about power usage.

I doubt a Mac Mini would outperfom a 5,1 dual X5690 with an RX6900XT Radeon - we've seen benchmarks from forum members showing just how capable 5,1 still is with those kinds of GPUs.

 

[rm5]

I used a 5,1 Mac Pro (not fully specced out) for about three months, just to see how long I could use it for. I used it almost exclusively (so I hardly used my M1 at all during this period). It was really slow, especially compared to Apple Silicon. The CPU I used was part of the problem, because it was one I pulled out of a server board, so it wasn't very fast—I'm sure the X5690s are far faster than the one I used, but it's still not even close to Apple Silicon.

I wouldn't recommend getting one, because you'll not only have to buy the machine itself, but you'll also be spending a good amount of money on upgrading a 13-year-old computer. At that point, it just makes sense to get an M2 Mac mini or something, which is way faster and consumes far less power. Unless there's a very specific reason to have a 5,1, you should avoid it.

 

[nettmanek]

I used a 5,1 Mac Pro (not fully specced out) for about three months, just to see how long I could use it for. I used it almost exclusively (so I hardly used my M1 at all during this period). It was really slow, especially compared to Apple Silicon. The CPU I used was part of the problem, because it was one I pulled out of a server board, so it wasn't very fast—I'm sure the X5690s are far faster than the one I used, but it's still not even close to Apple Silicon.

I wouldn't recommend getting one, because you'll not only have to buy the machine itself, but you'll also be spending a good amount of money on upgrading a 13-year-old computer. At that point, it just makes sense to get an M2 Mac mini or something, which is way faster and consumes far less power. Unless there's a very specific reason to have a 5,1, you should avoid it.

Comparing 13 years old machine to 2 years old - yeah… great idea.

As you mentioned it was not a top spec - you probably had 1cpu which was slow, while you could have 2 cpus with decent speed.

I paid for my Mac Pro £430 (around $550) and it has 2cpu 2.66GHz(still can upgrade for about $70 to 3.4GHz), 80GB Ram, 500GB SSD + 2TB HDD and I installed 2TB NVME with Monterey on board, Radeon RX580 8GB(still upgradable),

If you want decent apple silicone machine you have to pay double or triple that amount I pad for that cMP(not many options if you need a lot of ram like I do)

I’m using my cMP For lightroom and photoshop with no issues and it does good job, i don’t observe any performance lack. Also this one had 1 more benefit, you still can install Windows if you need (not on VM).

 

[rm5]

Comparing 13 years old machine to 2 years old - yeah… great idea.

As you mentioned it was not a top spec - you probably had 1cpu which was slow, while you could have 2 cpus with decent speed.

I paid for my Mac Pro £430 (around $550) and it has 2cpu 2.66GHz(still can upgrade for about $70 to 3.4GHz), 80GB Ram, 500GB SSD + 2TB HDD and I installed 2TB NVME with Monterey on board, Radeon RX580 8GB(still upgradable),

If you want decent apple silicone machine you have to pay double or triple that amount I pad for that cMP(not many options if you need a lot of ram like I do)

I’m using my cMP For lightroom and photoshop with no issues and it does good job, i don’t observe any performance lack. Also this one had 1 more benefit, you still can install Windows if you need (not on VM).

But... how much power does that Mac Pro draw? I'd guess between 250 and 300 watts at full load.

For my use case (Logic), the Mac Pro was very slow. For video editing and such, it was actually faster then my M1 (I had a Radeon Pro W5500 video card).

If the OP wants to get a 5,1, fine. I simply don't recommend it. It's not cost or power-efficient. Why would you dump $700+ on a 13-year-old machine? I simply don't see a point.

 

[Matthew92007]

But... how much power does that Mac Pro draw? I'd guess between 250 and 300 watts at full load.

For my use case (Logic), the Mac Pro was very slow. For video editing and such, it was actually faster then my M1 (I had a Radeon Pro W5500 video card).

If the OP wants to get a 5,1, fine. I simply don't recommend it. It's not cost or power-efficient. Why would you dump $700+ on a 13-year-old machine? I simply don't see a point.

I have a 5,1 and it'll draw 500+ watts from the wall under a CPU and GPU intense task, and that's only a single processor system with an RX 590. The PSU is rated for 1000 watts, they're not efficient machines by today's standards. When I play games on mine, the heat it kicks out into the room is enough to warm it by literal degrees over the course of an hour or two.

If you can get one for the right price, and you need a feature that the Mac Pro has (Windows, PCIe expansion, etc), then sure. In any other case though, It's just not worth it. They're on their last legs. While Monterey may run fine, and is what I run on mine, Ventura is reported to have issues, and eventually they just won't be able to keep up anymore.

I love my Mac Pro, don't get me wrong, they're just at the end of their upgrade path and the 2009 server architecture that they're based on is really starting to show it's age.

 

[nettmanek]

Is power such a big deal? How much it would cost you if it uses 300 watts
, $0.05 per hour? Even if saying 400 watts it would be around $0.06 per hour or in the UK £0.12 per hour.

 

[apostolosdt]

I was considering purchasing an older Mac Pro as a secondary desktop. Am just curious about how reliable these things are in this day and age, and if it's possible to upgrade them to modern spec. I know nothing about this sort of thing, so I am just looking for answers.

I come back to comment on this thread, a bit more carefully this time. You cannot ignore the power consumption of those machines. As chrfr pointed out, they are very ineffective on that. Mine consumes roughly the same power at idle as my Mini M1 does in full run. Even in sleep mode, 5,1 "eats" more than 8 watts, compared to 0.7 of Mini.

My 5,1 is a two-Xeon, at 3.33 GHz each, and 64 GB RAM ECC; I open a lot of apps simultaneously and I forget about it. OK, but the 5,1's speed is not noticeably better than the M1's. Sometimes the MP is slower, which worsens as a result of having USB 3.0 at best, not USB-C or Thunderbolt, as ports.

And one point newcomers underestimate is that some expertise in machine upgrading and OS updating is absolutely essential. Read the previous posts by others about that!

All in all, such MPs being cheap, you can find one and enjoy it for quite some time, but they are not a panacea computer-wise. Oh, did I mention they weigh nearly 20 kilos?

 

[apostolosdt]

Is power such a big deal? How much it would cost you if it uses 300 watts
, $0.05 per hour? Even if saying 400 watts it would be around $0.06 per hour or in the UK £0.12 per hour.

At 300 watts and for a full run of say 8 hours per day (it's one's working machine, right?), that's roughly 2.5 kWh. In my place, the current cost of 1 kWh is about 0.4 euros, including VAT, community taxes, etc. which will double the wattage cost. Well, that's 30 euros per month and rising!

Under current technology, one cannot run a computer on gas.😂

 

[nettmanek]

Ok so it’s depended from your location, in the UK it would cost me around £0.72 per 8 hours of work but that when it’s using a lot, I don’t think it’s using 300w all the time but even then, it would be in the UK around £14.4 per month if used 160 hours (8 hours a day) which gives £172 a year. From that we should take a difference on how much mac on M1 used to have a full reflection on costs.

I surely can check how much it shows on my cMP when exporting photographs from Lightroom (using 100% cpu), Will update later on.

 

[mcnallym]

first thing really would need to understand is what is the intended use of the 5,1.

if a current usage is achieved without issue on a current Mac Mini then a fully upgraded Dual x5690 and rx6000 series GPU is unlikely to be a requirement for the Mac Pro.

to run the 12.6.8 which seems to be latest people can get to with OpenCore then going to need some knowledge there and also Mac OS with the yearly OS now seems to get updated for 3 years and Monterey 2 years old already so already pretty well into the back slope of updates in terms of software etc.

mojave last updated 2021 so two years ago, which if no OpenCore is high as can go. Which will also restrict how high GPU can go, not Sure would get an RX6000 GPU in there.

If you want one for nostalgia then that is fine but certainly

a) cannot see a usage need if met by a current mini
b) economically makes no sense as more expensive to run
c) requires certain knowledge/skill which you seem to indicate may not be skill/knowledge you have.
d) limited shelf life left now with limited software life for Mac OS, even with OpenCore.
e) repurpose for windows/Linux later is fine however generic wintel hardware would be even cheaper.

so for the purposes of the OP then I would say would not be worthwhile, other then any nostagia feeling but don’t expect it to last long.

if you have one then makes sense to hang on whilst they still do the business but they make no practical sense for majority of people today To start buying them as new to them.

yes they can be upgraded to powerful spec and 12.6.8 however you indicated that this is not something you would be comfortable doing yourself which also means how comfortable would you be in terms of trying to fix any issues?

argumenst about cheaper then buying a new AS system don’t really hold as you have a current Mini and have indicated that meets your needs so there is no new AS Mac to buy instead of the Mac Pro.

if want one for nostalgia then that is fine, there are people out there still on PowerPC working on keeping it useful in todays world however even they would admit that is not for everyone.

 

[apostolosdt]

Speaking only for myself, nostalgia it is but not entirely. People who never had an MP won't understand those who did, and vice versa. I bought the 4,1 when I was running a Mini 2014 and an MBP 2008, and the MP was a revelation. Then came the 5,1, then came a 6,1. Of course, it's nostalgia.

Those beasts have trays for four 2GB internal disks plus the PCIe slots for extra disks and video cards. No external stuff, no tens of wires hanging on the floor. Imagine an Intel MBP with all these external connections, let alone its performance.

But, did I say "an Intel MBP?" Apart from storage and lots of RAM, these old MPs are inferior in many respects---pity, but true. My 5,1 is for sale, and soon will the 6,1 as well. In practical terms, I prefer the new Macs.

 

[mectojic]

The old Mac Pros are fantastic. Not every use case requires the fastest processor, or even the newest operating system.

For instance, I use my 2010 5,1 for old music sampling software. The software needs lots of Ram, so I have 64GB Ram on it. I have no need for any modern MacOS features, nor even an internet connection for that matter (though it is perfectly capable of using modern web on High Sierra).

For my own use case, using the 5,1 Mac Pro is functionally identical to using a 2023 M2 Mac Pro. The main difference is that I save myself about $8,000 by not buying a modern Pro.

 

[saudor]

Is power such a big deal? How much it would cost you if it uses 300 watts
, $0.05 per hour? Even if saying 400 watts it would be around $0.06 per hour or in the UK £0.12 per hour.

Plus cooling costs from the AC working harder.

Anyways, electricity cost is a bit of a moot point since the extra electricity bill would never break even with the sheer cost apple charges on the newer mac pros especially if you need something more than the base model (e.g. more ram)

The bigger issue is the need to hack around with opencore and risking things breaking with an update. It's the same idea as hackintoshes. It's great for a side project/hobby but not so much as a daily driver unless you're willing to mess around.

For nostalgia? It should be fine.

 

[Jethro!]

100% yes. My 2009 MP (flashed to 2010-12) is still my main production machine.
I've upgraded the processors, memory, HD's, etc. Still does everything I need it to do, and does it well.
I had been hoping to update to the new MP, but since it turned out to be an insulting dud joke I'll keep on with my 2009 MP for a bit longer.
Depressing knowing that I'll have to switch to the PC/Windows world.

 

[chrfr]

Ok so it’s depended from your location, in the UK it would cost me around £0.72 per 8 hours of work but that when it’s using a lot, I don’t think it’s using 300w all the time but even then, it would be in the UK around £14.4 per month if used 160 hours (8 hours a day) which gives £172 a year. From that we should take a difference on how much mac on M1 used to have a full reflection on costs.

I surely can check how much it shows on my cMP when exporting photographs from Lightroom (using 100% cpu), Will update later on.

Apple has documentation on each of these, although their numbers for the Mac Pros will be a bit off as different GPUs and storage options are installed. Every Mac mini ever made, except for the 2018 Intel model, draws less maximum power than any Mac Pro 4,1/5,1 does at idle.

Mac mini power consumption and thermal output (BTU) information - Apple Support

Learn about the power consumption and thermal output of Mac mini computers.

support.apple.com

Mac Pro power consumption and thermal output (BTU/h) information - Apple Support

Learn about the power consumption and thermal output of Mac Pro computers.

support.apple.com

When I was still using one of these on a regular basis, it wasn't just the Mac Pro's power draw that affected the cost of operation but there was also a significant increase in cooling demand in my relatively small apartment.

 

[chrfr]

The old Mac Pros are fantastic. Not every use case requires the fastest processor, or even the newest operating system.

For instance, I use my 2010 5,1 for old music sampling software. The software needs lots of Ram, so I have 64GB Ram on it. I have no need for any modern MacOS features, nor even an internet connection for that matter (though it is perfectly capable of using modern web on High Sierra).

For my own use case, using the 5,1 Mac Pro is functionally identical to using a 2023 M2 Mac Pro. The main difference is that I save myself about $8,000 by not buying a modern Pro.

Are you using expansion cards that you'd continue to need in a newer computer with more modern connectivity? If not, you'd have no need for a Mac Pro.

 

[mectojic]

Are you using expansion cards that you'd continue to need in a newer computer with more modern connectivity? If not, you'd have no need for a Mac Pro.

Well, no expansion I couldn't get in a modern Mac (like USB-C and USB A 3.0). But my point wasn't so much about a new Mac Pro, but a new Mac period. For the value to $$$ ratio, my 5,1 Mac Pro is extremely more effective than a modern Mac. To get 64GB Ram today would require at least the higher-spec MacBook Pro or Mac Studio, which is total overkill in CPU and pricing for my humble needs.