Do wireless devices (mouse/keyboard) use the same frequency as bluetooth devices?

[jas9]

History of the problem here: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/new-mouse-keyboard-acting-funny-what-to-do.2172746/

I am using a wireless keyboard and mouse on my MBP 2017 13" which is connected to a monitor. About 15-20% of the time, either keyboard or mouse or both act funny and stop working altogether or lag like sh*t. The problem occurs for a few seconds (30-60 seconds) then it goes away. But whenever this problem occurs, it annoys the hell out of me. My online research has suggested that USB-C adapter has some issue with the wifi and at times disrupts the signals which cause this problem. So, my question is, will my problem be solved if I get bluetooth mouse/keyboard? But if the bluetooth also works on the same 2.4 ghz frequency as the wifi, then I guess I will have the same problem there as well. I don't want to spend a ton of money getting new bluetooth mouse and keyboard only to find out that the problem still persists there as well. Your thoughts?

P.S. I did try to do some research on how bluetooth and wifi is different but that was some really technical stuff that I couldn't understand.

 

[Red Menace]

Wireless devices normally are bluetooth, but the problem is usually related to the particular device and the location of adapters. I've seen bluetooth issues with my laptops just turning the WiFi on, and with the latest mini by plugging devices directly into the USB ports. The laptops work better with WiFi off, and the mini works better using an adapter to move devices away from the box, so it may just be an issue with the location of the antennas.

 

[jas9]

Wireless devices normally are bluetooth, but the problem is usually related to the particular device and the location of adapters. I've seen bluetooth issues with my laptops just turning the WiFi on, and with the latest mini by plugging devices directly into the USB ports. The laptops work better with WiFi off, and the mini works better using an adapter to move devices away from the box, so it may just be an issue with the location of the antennas.

So you're saying even if I get bluetooth mouse keyboard, it wouldn't guarantee to solve my issue?
It sucks how you spend thousands of dollars on Apple and yet you can't do basic stuff like not have issues with keyboard and mouse.

If I don't find a fix for this, I might be forced to move back to Windows. This annoying lag at times seriously puts me off. Facing lag constantly for 5 minutes right now.

 

[26139]

It sounds like the problem is either the adapter or the keyboard/mouse.
Have you tried using an Apple bluetooth keyboard/mouse or any other brand to replicate the issue?

Seems a little shortsighted to blame Apple here, man.

 

[BeatCrazy]

So you're saying even if I get bluetooth mouse keyboard, it wouldn't guarantee to solve my issue?
It sucks how you spend thousands of dollars on Apple and yet you can't do basic stuff like not have issues with keyboard and mouse.

If I don't find a fix for this, I might be forced to move back to Windows. This annoying lag at times seriously puts me off. Facing lag constantly for 5 minutes right now.

What devices are you using that are USB 3.0? A SSD or HDD?

 

[mkelly]

Physicist checking in.

So, many consumer-grade wireless devices use a slice of the radio spectrum *around* 2.4 GHz. It isn't just one frequency in use, it's actually a range. WiFi devices alone have somewhere around 14 channels to choose from (it varies by country), ranging from 2.412 GHz to 2.484 GHz. Bluetooth devices operate between 2.4 and 2.4835 GHz (you can see the overlap with WiFi), and there are many other devices that all operate in this band (including microwave ovens). Given the right conditions, any of these devices can interfere with the others if their frequencies overlap.

You asked about whether switching to Bluetooth devices would help. That depends on what you're switching away from. Red Menace above claimed that wireless devices are normally Bluetooth. That's mostly correct. Bluetooth is the most common wireless protocol, but there are others. The Logitech Unified Receiver that your keyboard shipped with does *not* use bluetooth, but does operate in the 2.4 GHz band, and is therefore susceptible to interference from other 2.4 GHz devices.

One of the interesting things about Bluetooth is that it is designed to avoid interference by frequency-hopping at up to 1600 times per second. If you are using a wireless keyboard/mouse that *isn't* bluetooth, you might find that switching to a Bluetooth device will clear up the issue, because of Bluetooth's more robust interference-avoidance capabilities.

That said, physics comes into play here - something nearby may simply be swamping the immediate area with radio noise at 2.4 GHz. Microwave ovens are one possible source, as are cordless phones.

Not sure about the claim that the Mac's USB-C ports are causing the problem... I've run into similar issues in the past with my Logitech MX Master mouse and its receiver was plugged into the monitor rather than the Mac.

Another thought: you mentioned it didn't happen on Windows. Was the Windows machine hooked up in the *exact* same physical location as your Mac? It sounds silly, but interference can be very position-dependent. Try shifting the Mac a foot or two in one direction or the other and see if the problem gets better or worse (this isn't exclusive to the Mac - this is a radio physics thing)

 

[Ruggy]

There are two separate problems to consider and if this problem is soluble, we need to tackle the right one.

The first problem is interference. As has been explained in a previous, excellent post, interference can be a problem and USB3 is particularly bad because it produces a lot of noise in the range of your wireless keyboard and mouse

But that would tend to be produced by another device plugged into your mac and not the device itself. I've read your original thread and you don't mention that you have an external drive or anything because that would probably be where it is coming from in that case.
If you think something else is interfering then move it, change to USB2, get a shielded dongle something along that path but I don't think that's your problem

The second problem is latency and that comes from the device itself.

Ask anyone that plays games and they will tell you to use a wired keyboard because wireless is always a bit slower. Ask anyone watching a movie with bluetooth headphones and they will often have sync problems for the same reason.
It is a problem from one device to another, from one application to another and it's very difficult for anyone to put their finger on why especially when it's intermittent. It can be a codec with audio or video and it can be an incompatibility with the driver.

If you do a search for stuttering keyboards and mice you will see this is a very widespread problem.

You have a MBP and although you haven't explained how you are using the keyboard, I imagine you are using it away from the machine otherwise why would you need it?

The further you get away the more problems with latency you will have so It maybe that something is sometimes getting in the way if you are using it on a shelf under a desk for example. It can also be the batteries in the device.
You can try a reaction time test to have an idea.
Unplug the keyboard and mouse and try this with your trackpad to get a baseline level for your reaction speed. Then try it with the keyboard and mouse. The difference is latency and if it's high then you've found your problem.

Reaction Time Test

Reaction Time Test: The simple, accurate online reaction time tester.

www.humanbenchmark.com

Otherwise, sometimes the problem can be because you're using a larger or custom pointer, mouse acceleration, trails that sort of thing. They all make it laggy.