Does this mean Wifi card is broken ?

[Sovon Halder]

We have a 30Mbps line.

I'm standing with my laptop literally right next to my wifi router (2 inches aways). I'm receiving 12-15Mbps on Ookla Speedtest on my Macbook Pro 2017 13" w/ macOS Mojave latest public beta.

A old crappy windows laptop costing 1/4th the price is getting 28Mbps.

I am kind of frustrated. What the hell is this trickery?

P.S. With a hardline, I'm getting steady 30. But as soon as I unplug the cable, it's back to 10Mbps. The router is D-Link DIR-600M

 

[Howard2k]

It looks like there's an issue with the wifi negotiation. Is this the 2018 MBPro?
If you turn off the wifi and turn it back on again, it comes back to life right?

 

[maflynn]

Just for giggles did you reboot the cable modem and router?

 

[Sovon Halder]

I rebooted and reset the router multiple times.

Reset network preferences of my 2017 mbp multiple times, rebooted, reset connection etc many times.

Sometimes I get full 30mbps. For example in the evening I was playing around with it and about after half an hour trying and etc I suddenly started getting 30mbps. I was in our common room where the router is. I came back to my room and it was still 30mbps for a while. I restarted both the router and the mac. And everything went back to ****, same 5-10mbps.

It’s very frustrating specially when even youtube doesn’t stream at 1080p properly.


Edit - btw my iphone 5s also reports similar crappy speed on speed test app.

 

[Audit13]

How is the speed without encryption? I know it is not a good idea to run an open network so open it long enough to run a few speed tests.

Is there a way to bypass the router?

 

[Honza1]

Hm, something similar to this :
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...et-issues-out-the-gate.2132496/#post-26353097
literally now below you on my list? Try different router/wifi point/network first before blaming MBP. It can be damaged card, but some incompatibility is even more likely...

 

[jerryk]

How did your MBP perform before the beta was installed?

And since this happens on your phone also, this seems to be a network issue versus a computer issue.

Can you get an app for your phone and see if there are a lot of other people on Channel 11?

And does your router support 5G? If so, enable it and connect to 5G SSID and see how it performs.

Also, the network is a shared resource so if other people are streaming it impacts you and visa verse.

 

[simonsi]

Are both machines connecting to the 2.4GHz band or is the Windows machine connecting to the 5GHz?

How many devices are connected via WiFi on each band, you could just have a congested band causing this, the bane of shared accomodation...Anyone Seeding? that especially can max out the upload side, causing issues with downstream speeds.

What is your upstream connection?

 

[Audit13]

The dir-600m doesn't support 5 GHz from what I can see: https://www.cnet.com/products/d-link-dir-600-wireless-150-router/specs/

 

[simonsi]

The dir-600m doesn't support 5 GHz from what I can see: https://www.cnet.com/products/d-link-dir-600-wireless-150-router/specs/

Eeeek! How old is that??? Bet its the number of devices related , crappy old spec wifi router + shared accomodation = pain.

Who knows whether the old Windows machine is ok because both are equally old, Yay for Windows 7 certification on the router

 

[Audit13]

Eeeek! How old is that??? Bet its the number of devices related , crappy old spec wifi router + shared accomodation = pain.

Who knows whether the old Windows machine is ok because both are equally old, Yay for Windows 7 certification on the router

I think it's a compatibility issue between the Macbook and router if the router is running the latest firmware.

 

[Howard2k]

I rebooted and reset the router multiple times.

Reset network preferences of my 2017 mbp multiple times, rebooted, reset connection etc many times.

Sometimes I get full 30mbps. For example in the evening I was playing around with it and about after half an hour trying and etc I suddenly started getting 30mbps. I was in our common room where the router is. I came back to my room and it was still 30mbps for a while. I restarted both the router and the mac. And everything went back to ****, same 5-10mbps.

It’s very frustrating specially when even youtube doesn’t stream at 1080p properly.


Edit - btw my iphone 5s also reports similar crappy speed on speed test app.

Before going any further at all, you need to be clear and precise on whether you're talking about bandwidth or throughput and whether you're talking about Mbps or MBps (or Mb/s or MB/s). There may or may not be an issue at all, but it's very difficult to tell.

After you've rebooted your router and modem, and ensure that the router has the latest firmware, please can you do a print screen showing the option-click of the Wifi icon in the menu bar, and a print screen from a speed test site.

Let's try to get some clarity on real numbers.

Thanks

 

[Sovon Halder]

How is the speed without encryption?

I have tested right after resetting the router when it was without a custom SSID/key. It was same.

Try different router/wifi point/network first before blaming MBP.

I'm not blaming my laptop. I'm trying to figure out whether this is a issue from an age old wifi or is it my laptop's wifi card. I am assuming it's the wifi but also kind of confused as to why the windows PCs are getting better speedtest results.

How did your MBP perform before the beta was installed?

And since this happens on your phone also, this seems to be a network issue versus a computer issue.

Can you get an app for your phone and see if there are a lot of other people on Channel 11?

2 days ago I arranged a new setup in my room. In previous desk arrangement, there was a secondary router (that I was using as an access point) right next to my laptop (less than a foot away). For unavoidable reasons I had to throw that old router away. It was fine even in Mojave public beta 2-3-4. The issue started happening AFTER this new arrangement. Now, the only router is in the hall room, about 20 feet away from my mac, there is a wall in between but partially. If I keep my door open, there is a direct line of sight though.

The router doesn't support 5Ghz broadcast and here is the scan window; highlighted is our SSID. I would have mentioned otherwise but there is no other device that sucks up the bandwidth when I'm doing all the testings.

What is your upstream connection?

30Mbps Down + 30Mbps Down - simultaneous.

Eeeek! How old is that??? Bet its the number of devices related , crappy old spec wifi router + shared accomodation = pain.

It was there since before we subscribed to the new ISP plan. It's a 3BHK flat occupied by 3 people including me.

Before going any further at all, you need to be clear and precise on whether you're talking about bandwidth or throughput and whether you're talking about Mbps or MBps (or Mb/s or MB/s). There may or may not be an issue at all, but it's very difficult to tell.

After you've rebooted your router and modem, and ensure that the router has the latest firmware, please can you do a print screen showing the option-click of the Wifi icon in the menu bar, and a print screen from a speed test site.

Let's try to get some clarity on real numbers.

I don't believe I've mentioned MBps anywhere. All numbers are mega bit per second. And as for details wifi stats, I uploaded a screenshot in the opening post. Also the firmware is latest available 3.05 (I updated today).

 

[jerryk]

If I understand the display correctly, your network is on the worse possible channel. You have 3 other SSIDs overlapping frequencies with your channel 2. 2 of the networks are on channel 2 and one is on Channel 1. See these articles, https://www.metageek.com/training/resources/why-channels-1-6-11.html and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels.

As the display shows "Best 2.4 Ghz" you really want your network on Channel 11 where there is no frequency overlap. As it is now when you or the other networks have traffic your packets are getting stepping on each other. As a result when anything in your network detects this collision it has to re-transmit the information. And as a result, your throughput goes down.

Can you reset your network/SSID to channel 11 and see if that helps? There may already be a setting on your Wifi router that automatically select the best channel. If so you may need to just power cycle the router.

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Eeeek! How old is that??? Bet its the number of devices related , crappy old spec wifi router + shared accomodation = pain.

Who knows whether the old Windows machine is ok because both are equally old, Yay for Windows 7 certification on the router

FWIW, it looks like 5Ghz is a bit on issues in India because they use it in their radar systems. So my guess is telecoms avoid it to prevent running afoul with the military and other government agencies.

 

[Howard2k]

I don't believe I've mentioned MBps anywhere. All numbers are mega bit per second. And as for details wifi stats, I uploaded a screenshot in the opening post. Also the firmware is latest available 3.05 (I updated today).

Thanks for the clarity, it's a bit of a nightmare trying to interpret how people use these on here. Mb/s or Mbps are good. mbps not so much.

I agree with Jerry, try channel 11. Your signal is strong (-33) and your noise is low (-96), but it won't hurt.

How are you confirming the throughout of 10Mb/s? Are you getting that from a speed test site? Do you have screenshots?

My guess is that's a chipset comparability issue and restarting the wifi on the MBPro will make it work again. I know, not fun.

 

[Sovon Halder]

The router has the 'Auto' option for channel. And it was on all along. Power cycle the router - if turning it off and on after a duration of 30 seconds is what it is, I've done that without any good outcome. I've set it to 11 manually now.

The results are good and bad. Good because I can now see that there is an aspect, controlling which yields somewhat better outcome. Bad because it's completely unpredictable, at least for me in this condition. I did a few tests, here are the results..

1# In my room.

2# In Hall (right next to router)

3# back to Room again

# Still in Room (after a disconnect & connect to 'Mahadev')

I did couple more tests, they are sometimes around 10-12-15 / 10-12-16 etc. It's unpredictable.

I love every aspect of my laptop because it's made my life easier and the ecosystem and the experience is great. But this thing, wireless connectivity has been a headache for me since day one. Over the past one year I've faced numerous difficulties.

The biggest one being, (until now for about a year I've been using an old router that doesn't take a RJ45, brought to my room hard wired and used it as an access point). While it did solved the weak signal issue(like I'm having right now), it introduced another even irritating problem. Every once in a while the host went silent on me and ping 192.168.0.1 returned some request timeout or something. I had to disconnect and connect to the network. Every time. I had to do this 3 or 4 times a day, every day; been doing this for about a year now. So I decided to throw it in the trash.

What bothers me is that it cost me an arm and a leg to afford a computer. Even worse is, when I see cheap windows laptops are working just fine.

EDIT: Did even more tests just now. All resulted around 10Mbps up and down. One third of my broadband plan.
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My guess is that's a chipset comparability issue and restarting the wifi on the MBPro will make it work again. I know, not fun.

Do you still want me to do that ?

 

[Howard2k]

Thanks. I think what you're seeing is not all that bad.

Two factors you need to look at are the noise and the signal. The delta between those is called the Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR), though it's not a ratio. The SNR is the signal strength subtracted from the noise.


In the first image, where you got very poor performance, the SNR is only -25. Which is not incredibly poor, but it's pretty poor. Conversely, in the second one, the SNR is -67, which is really pretty good, and you're getting a great result. Then in the third one (and fourth), the SNR is -28, which is not great, but still better than -25.

I think it's a signal issue that you're seeing. My guess is you're finding the sweet spot between performance and non-performance. I'm actually a little surprised that the difference is so huge between the -28 and -25, but I suspect that is what you're seeing.

To demonstrate it, you could try to reproduce the second test with the -25 ratio and poor performance, than then take a few steps towards the router to try to boost the SNR to -28 or -30 and re-run the test again and see what sort of result you get. It might be a case of trying to find the sweet spot in the SNR.

I have 1.3Gb/s wifi at home but where I typically use my MBPro I get an SNR of -42 and my TX rates drops from 1.3Gb/s maximum potential to around 702Mb/s (right now). I tends to jump up to 876Mb/s on occasion, and sometimes drops to 585Mb/s. Certainly the results of degradation caused by SNR can be easily demonstrated, and I can walk towards my router and increase the strength of my signal.

Why is 73Mb/s TX rate not giving 30Mb/s throughput? There could be a slew of reasons for that, the first though is that with even just two devices (laptop and router) you're slicing the bandwidth. You can only have one device talk at one time. The laptop can talk to the router, but the router cannot talk to the laptop at the same time. They have to take turns. If there is a third wifi device (iPhone for example) you now have all three devices sharing that same bandwidth. The iPhone wants to talk to the laptop and that's a conversation that has to happen between the iPhone and router, and the router and MacBook. Additional devices very swiftly reduce available bandwidth if they're chatty. So that's something worth keeping in mind, but it may not be your primary issue. I suspect your primary issue is the SNR.

 

[Honza1]

Just minor side note to increase general education ;-) :

Two factors you need to look at are the noise and the signal. The delta between those is called the Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR), though it's not a ratio. The SNR is the signal strength subtracted from the noise.

Check the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal-to-noise_ratio

Since the signal and noise here used are expressed in decibel units (which is log of real signal strength value), if you take and subtract two logs (log(signal) - log(noise)), it is in reality division of their arguments log(Signal/noise)... I used to use tables with logarithms and do divisions by subtracting those log(values) and converting back. Still have those tables at home on shelf.

It IS signal-to-noise ratio...

 

[Howard2k]

Just minor side note to increase general education ;-) :



Check the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal-to-noise_ratio

Since the signal and noise here used are expressed in decibel units (which is log of real signal strength value), if you take and subtract two logs (log(signal) - log(noise)), it is in reality division of their arguments log(Signal/noise)... I used to use tables with logarithms and do divisions by subtracting those log(values) and converting back. Still have those tables at home on shelf.

It IS signal-to-noise ratio...

Thank you!

 

[Sovon Halder]

I downgraded down to Sierra(Internet recovery).

The wifi situation is same.

 

[Howard2k]

I downgraded down to Sierra(Internet recovery).

The wifi situation is same.

Yeah I would expect so. I recommend trying to play around in that particular SNR range I highlighted, the -25 to -30 range and see if there is some predictability there.

 

[Sovon Halder]

It it common for laptops to have broken wifi card? I couldn't find many results.

Don't know. Once every 10th test, my iPhone 5S reaches 25-30Mbps range but my laptop barely does.
Frankly I don't have the time to do all these. I come home at 8:30 from office and after that I get too tired to get into the nitty gritty like this.

I am planning on buying a new wifi router. If the community has any budget favourite, I'd love to know. Around 50$ maybe.

 

[Howard2k]

It it common for laptops to have broken wifi card? I couldn't find many results.

Don't know. Once every 10th test, my iPhone 5S reaches 25-30Mbps range but my laptop barely does.
Frankly I don't have the time to do all these. I come home at 8:30 from office and after that I get too tired to get into the nitty gritty like this.

I am planning on buying a new wifi router. If the community has any budget favourite, I'd love to know. Around 50$ maybe.

No, I think that's actually just a subtle spam post. I don't think s/he's trying to meaningfully contribute to the conversation.


As for routers - they all suck to various degrees. It's a matter of finding one that doesn't suck too badly for your scenario I use a Netgear R6300v2 and it's been STELLAR. I'd stuck with Linksys/DLink/Netgear/TP-Link and buy from a store with a good return policy.

Most of them are good at most of the features they purport to support, but in my experience they all seem to have shortcomings and things that they just don't do well.

 

[Rocko99991]

Try another router, 5ghz.

 

[simonsi]

If you use to have an additional router in your room hard-wired then what is to stop you running cabled into that?

TBH I think you have something weird going on upstream, you shouldn't have lower download than upload (except marginally on a symmetric connection, certainly 3 d/s and 11 u/s is totally wrong.

Do you have a fridge in your room or close by? Try turning that off, they are notorious for broadcasting heaps of noise periodically when the compressor runs...