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eN0ch

macrumors member
Original poster
Aug 28, 2009
71
4
Crookwell NSW Australia
I'm wondering if anyone can advise this noob on best basic management / monitoring of external SSDs (not as boot). On the reasonable belief that rumours of the death of DriveDx have been greatly exaggerated, I'm persisting with that as my default disk health monitoring tool. But the history has been perplexing to say the least. I think the perplexity really started with the move to my M1 iMac. But it may have been earlier - e.g. the move to external SSD from HDD, I'm not sure now.

Anyway, I've just found that with or without the sat-smart driver installed, I get a dog's breakfast of S.M.A.R.T. status readings and health indicators between DriveDx, Drive Scope and SMART Utility. They variously rate my two ext SSDs as passed, failing and failed, and with a wide variety of assessments of the finer details of drive health. With DS & SU, but not Ddx, the SMART status is always "passed", despite a sea of red text warnings of "failing" or "failed" on various measures. With Ddx it's just failure everywhere, X, tones of red and yellow markings, almost no green, and it's like that from the very start with those drives (yes, even when brand new).

Now in one sense I don't my really mind about having all the "right " readings on disk health. It's not something I want to follow meticulously. But I do want to know when I actually should be worried about drive failure, versus when it's a false alarm. Can I realistically expect to have that? Or is that too much to ask of macos with external SSDs and the sat-smart driver?

The two relevant drives I have are:
  1. SanDisk Extreme 1TB. Two volumes - One used to store my music, photos, videos, and some email archives, as alternative to home folder on boot; the other for a clone backup of internal boot drive using SuperDuper!
  2. Samsung T7 Shield 2TB. Single volume. Used exclusively for TM backup.
Both are currently connected through a Thunderbolt port via a USB-C hub. Have had one of them connected directly through a USB-3 port in the past.

It might be worth adding that I've tried out Samsung's "Magician" app. It gave my T7 Shield a clean bill of health on every measure. I suspect that would be more definitive than the alarming readings I get from the other apps? Sadly there's no such OEM mac app for my SanDisk Extreme.

As far as the actual history goes - the Extreme has performed solidly without skipping a beat since I got it at the start of last year. The T7 has been more umm interesting. I've had it less than a year, and in that time the data (TM backups) has become corrupted 3 times without warning. It hasn't been a practical option to recover data (just takes too long), and I have another backup (iDrive, cloud). So I've just reformatted and started over each time. What the cause of that might be is another matter (I think). But I assume it doesn't relate to SMART or drive health, since the Samsung Magician app says it's hunky dorey. Either way, no help from DriveDx or any of the others with any of that.

I think that about covers it. Is there something I'm missing that might make S.M.A.R.T. etc work better for me with these ext SSDs? What have others found? (I should clarify - As the noob I am, I'm not likely to fare well with any really geeky CLI or coding solutions, though I don't mind trying. GUI apps preferred). Thanks.
 

OldMike

macrumors 6502a
Mar 3, 2009
537
219
Dallas, TX
I am a longtime user of DriveDx. I have all of my externals hooked via Thunderbolt and I feel the readings and warnings are pretty accurate. I don't really see many status changes on my SSDs or NVMes but I do see accurate health changes more often on my Thunderbolt connected hard disk drives.

I was happy to finally see another update to DriveDx so that I knew it was still alive.
 

OldMike

macrumors 6502a
Mar 3, 2009
537
219
Dallas, TX
For external storage, I have two Akitio QuadX 4 bay HDD storage enclosures, one Akitio Quad Mini that I use for SATA SSDs, an OWC Ministack STX that contains one NVMe and one SATA SSD, and a few single drive NVMe Thunderbolt enclosures (which I use as boot drives or boot drive clones).

I believe OWC acquired Akitio, and probably offer their own versions of these enclosures.

These enclosures have been transferred around over the years. I've had them connected to a 2013 Trashcan Mac Pro, 2018 Mac Mini, M1 Max Mac Studio and a M1 Pro MacBook Pro.

Currently I am using these on a 2018 Mac Mini and the M1 Pro MacBook Pro. Having regrettably sold my Mac Studio, I am looking forward to getting an M3 based desktop Mac once they are released, and then connecting most of the enclosures to that single Mac. The plan will be to get the minimum storage offered by Apple and boot that machine off of one of the NVMe thunderbolt enclosures - as I have been doing for a while.
 
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Hope I can just add my own DDX issues/comments to the thread since it's current....
Drive DX has had updates in 2023 so it seems like they are still there - but - they have been completely unresponsive to my tech support question. (as follows)

I was using the trial version (pre-purchase) on MacOS Big Sur and there was an extension to download for Drive DX (from inside the program) which added capability to look at external drives which seemed to work pretty well - it showed some valuable information about drive health on all my USB externals (I had several drives showing issues).

I updated to Monterey and it all seems to be gone. Now it just sees the drive and says not supported (not SMART drives). The option to add the extension for externals, is gone. I KNOW it worked before because I made mental notes about what drives had future issues or were needing replacement.

So just wondering if the capability is gone forever after Big Sur - or if it appears in a different version of DriveDX - or is it seen again in a later version of MacOS? I suppose I could create a bootable Big Sur drive to get that a capability back temporarily for testing purposes - but don't think I want to go to those lengths.
 

OldMike

macrumors 6502a
Mar 3, 2009
537
219
Dallas, TX
As Apple increasingly tightens security with each release - I am not sure if the USB driver still works - or if you need to make an exception in the security policy when in recovery mode if you are using Apple Silicon.

The page (though outdated) still exists at DriveDX - but I never enabled drive monitoring for USB drives, so I am not too familiar with it: https://binaryfruit.com/drivedx/usb-drive-support
 
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OldMike

macrumors 6502a
Mar 3, 2009
537
219
Dallas, TX
After looking at this again, the page says:
  • SAT SMART Driver project is not a part of DriveDx project
  • SAT SMART Driver is external 3rd party project and it is not officially supported by BinaryFruit
When looking at the Github repository for that project - it hasn't been updated in about 7 years.

If you look at the Github issues for the project - it seems like trying to install it on a more recent version of macOS could be problematic:

Does not work with Ventura 13.3 #84
The Mac fails to boot with the extensions installed, in verbose mode we can see that there is a loop with a message like « media disk.. not present ».
 
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Brian33

macrumors 65816
Apr 30, 2008
1,468
371
USA (Virginia)
I updated to Monterey and it all seems to be gone. Now it just sees the drive and says not supported (not SMART drives). The option to add the extension for externals, is gone. I KNOW it worked before because I made mental notes about what drives had future issues or were needing replacement.

So just wondering if the capability is gone forever after Big Sur - or if it appears in a different version of DriveDX - or is it seen again in a later version of MacOS?
I can say that it does work in Monterey on Intel chip, so you may not want to give up. I've had DriveDX and the SAT SMART driver working since I installed Monterey on my late 2015 27" iMac.

The issue is that macOS has made it more difficult/more restrictive to install kernel extensions (kext). Going from memory, the first time you try to install a kernel extension, you need to approve it. A button should appear in the SystemPreferences-->Security&Privacy-->General tab. Something like "Click Allow" to allow the kext to be loaded.

IIRC though, at some point that message and button can disappear on their own! I don't know if it's a timeout, or re-boot or what that does it. And I don't really remember how to get it back -- but it is possible.

I did not have to change any security policy or anything from recovery mode. I just had to have System Preferences open to that tab and "catch" the button and click "Allow."

Maybe just a re-install attempt, or some internet searching will point the way...
 
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Brian33

macrumors 65816
Apr 30, 2008
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371
USA (Virginia)
Anyway, I've just found that with or without the sat-smart driver installed, I get a dog's breakfast of S.M.A.R.T. status readings and health indicators between DriveDx, Drive Scope and SMART Utility. They variously rate my two ext SSDs as passed, failing and failed, and with a wide variety of assessments of the finer details of drive health. With DS & SU, but not Ddx, the SMART status is always "passed", despite a sea of red text warnings of "failing" or "failed" on various measures. With Ddx it's just failure everywhere, X, tones of red and yellow markings, almost no green, and it's like that from the very start with those drives (yes, even when brand new).

Now in one sense I don't my really mind about having all the "right " readings on disk health. It's not something I want to follow meticulously. But I do want to know when I actually should be worried about drive failure, versus when it's a false alarm. Can I realistically expect to have that?
I hear you! I haven't compared DriveDx to Drive Scope or SMART Utility, and I still find the results confusing and somewhat questionable, also. I don't really trust everything it says. Some values are quite "bad" when I expected good, and vice versa. I've mostly looked at HDDs with it. (On USB, Thunderbolt 2, and (!) Firewire interfaces.)

I think it takes some knowledge to interpret the indicators usefully, and I'm not expert on SMART values. I note that DriveDx's interpretation of the raw values seems to depend upon specific values in a database of specific drive models (i.e., raw values are converted in vendor-specific and maybe model-specific ways) and I wonder how accurate that database is. It would be easy for some inaccuracies to creep in, IMHO.


SanDisk Extreme 1TB.
I have a vague memory that there were issues with SanDisk Extreme SSDs used with macOS. You might want to see if there's a firmware update available. Sorry, I don't remember what the issues were.
 

eN0ch

macrumors member
Original poster
Aug 28, 2009
71
4
Crookwell NSW Australia
I think I'm nearing the conclusion that tracking external SSD health just isn't a priority for Apple's engineers. Ramping up security seems to be the only game. So I'm sensing my solution is either rely on OEM management apps (if such exist for the particular drive) or just live with the possibility of drive failure at some point, with or without warning. With my two drives it's one of each.
I have a vague memory that there were issues with SanDisk Extreme SSDs used with macOS. You might want to see if there's a firmware update available. Sorry, I don't remember what the issues were.
Yes I did pick up on that. They provided a firmware update for it as well as a S/N check to find out whether your drive was one of the affected batches. Mine wasn't, so problem.
 

eN0ch

macrumors member
Original poster
Aug 28, 2009
71
4
Crookwell NSW Australia
just wondering if the capability is gone forever after Big Sur - or if it appears in a different version of DriveDX - or is it seen again in a later version of MacOS?
I can confirm it's "working" on my M1 running Ventura. "Working" in the sense that Ddx reports on my ext drives with the help of the sat-smart driver. But not working functionally, in that the readings it gives are a useless lot of gobbledygook.
 
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fssbob

macrumors newbie
Feb 25, 2023
6
2
Yes I did pick up on that. They provided a firmware update for it as well as a S/N check to find out whether your drive was one of the affected batches. Mine wasn't, so problem.
From what I read, the SanDisk Extreme problems were catastrophic. After a period of time, your drive would corrupt and become unrecoverable. It was months before SanDisk admitted the problem, much less dealt with it. I believe there's a class action lawsuit in progress over it right now on behalf of people who lost their data.

I'd personally be very hesitant to touch SanDisk external drives at this point.
 

eN0ch

macrumors member
Original poster
Aug 28, 2009
71
4
Crookwell NSW Australia
From what I read, the SanDisk Extreme problems were catastrophic. After a period of time, your drive would corrupt and become unrecoverable. It was months before SanDisk admitted the problem, much less dealt with it. I believe there's a class action lawsuit in progress over it right now on behalf of people who lost their data.

I'd personally be very hesitant to touch SanDisk external drives at this point.
Yes you're correct. I forgot those details, but it all came back on reading your comment. I probably wouldn't be buying a SanDisk product just now either. But I already have this one, and it's working brilliantly. So staying for now.
 

HDFan

Contributor
Jun 30, 2007
7,213
3,263
I get a dog's breakfast of S.M.A.R.T. status readings and health indicators between DriveDx, Drive Scope and SMART Utility.

How do the TBW values shown in the programs compare with the SSDs' TBW specifications?
 

OldMike

macrumors 6502a
Mar 3, 2009
537
219
Dallas, TX
How do the TBW values shown in the programs compare with the SSDs' TBW specifications?

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that the drive health (Percentage Used) is the percentage used of the manufacturer's TBW number. So if a drive had a TBW of 1200, and 600 TB were written, pecentage used (or health depending on the utility) would show as 50%
 

OldMike

macrumors 6502a
Mar 3, 2009
537
219
Dallas, TX
I think I'm nearing the conclusion that tracking external SSD health just isn't a priority for Apple's engineers.

Its more of an issue of macOS dealing with USB connected external drives. External drives connected via Thunderbolt need no additional drivers and report SMART status without an issue.
 
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eN0ch

macrumors member
Original poster
Aug 28, 2009
71
4
Crookwell NSW Australia
How do the TBW values shown in the programs compare with the SSDs' TBW specifications?
Sorry to be late back to my own party. I just wish I could answer that question :confused:. Nearly all the health indicators Ddx lists for the external SSDs are labelled "Vendor Specific" (along with either "life-span" or "pre-fail"). And that's it. So I can't see anything that would tell my noobish brain what the TBW specs might be.

And relatedly, it's worth emphasising that my question is about external SSDs, not the mac's internal SSD. Most info I can find anywhere is about internal.
 

eN0ch

macrumors member
Original poster
Aug 28, 2009
71
4
Crookwell NSW Australia
Its more of an issue of macOS dealing with USB connected external drives. External drives connected via Thunderbolt need no additional drivers and report SMART status without an issue.
Well yes; except that in my case they are Thunderbolt connected. And Ddx reports one of them as having SMART disabled. The other one it at least says "enabled". But that doesn't make the displayed health indicators much more useful.
 

michael_san_francisco

macrumors newbie
Jan 31, 2024
1
1
My approach to external storage has changed over the years. In 2018 I bought an Intel Mac Mini, expecting it to operate as a server for hosting shared storage and running VMs.

My current perspective is that I was trying too hard. Macs are workstations, not servers. For storage expansion, I now:
* Avoid using USB for storage, except for moving files between machines (e.g. sneaker net)
* Use Thunderbolt for local storage expansion, always as independent volumes (avoid software-based RAID)
* Use high-quality brand name storage--don't skimp
* Use a NAS for large volumes that are accessed periodically and for creating RAID volumes (e.g. media library, backups) - e.g. Synology or better
* Prefer 10 GigE for fast access from the Mac to the NAS
* Host the VMs elsewhere
* Allow the Mac go to sleep when not in use

I now use the Mac as a workstation rather than trying to use it as a server. This approach has worked well for my use cases. Your use cases may have different demands.

This discussion thread now has me wondering about how to get reliable guidance from SMART monitoring. Seems like it's dependent on both the monitoring utility and the storage devices. Unfortunately there are questions about the vendors offering those SMART monitoring tools and inconsistent coverage across storage manufacturers and storage devices. Maybe Synology does a good job with SMART monitoring their own premium-priced drives?

The price of cloud-based storage still seems too high for data volumes of many TB. But in the face of these issues around storage management and drive quality, I'm reconsidering that value proposition.
 
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HDFan

Contributor
Jun 30, 2007
7,213
3,263
The price of cloud-based storage still seems too high for data volumes of many TB.

Depends on how many TB. I have 16 TB backed up to one service, ~66 TB to another for around $125 a year each. Limitations are slow upload speeds, the refreshes as they look for new files can take days, and issues with trying to restore all of that data.
 

sunseeker

macrumors member
Oct 22, 2004
66
63
For what it's worth,

OWC Aura SSD

The OWC Aura SSD are not supported since they do not contain SMART data information to read and report back the current overall health or life expectancy of the storage device.

Samsung Portable SSD T5

The Samsung Portable SSD T5 is supported as a SMART capable storage device when the SAT SMART Driver extension is installed and loaded on a Mac using macOS 10.15 ‘Catalina’ or earlier. However, under macOS 11 ‘Big Sur’ or greater with the SAT SMART Driver extension installed and loaded, it is not seen as a SMART capable storage device. We’re looking into the issue, but are unsure of a timeline if support can be added for this USB storage device.

Samsung Portable SSD T7/T7 Touch

The Samsung Portable SSD T7/T7 Touch external USB enclosure contains a NVMe-based solid state storage device and is not compatible with the SAT SMART Driver. At this time, there is no native NVMe SMART over USB drivers available in the macOS. Also, there’s no manufacturer-specific workarounds available since no standard has been created to address devices using this configuration.

SanDisk Extreme Pro SSD

The SanDisk Extreme Pro SSD external USB enclosure contains a NVMe-based solid state storage device and is not compatible with the SAT SMART Driver. At this time, there is no native NVMe SMART over USB drivers available in the macOS. Also, there’s no manufacturer-specific workarounds available since no standard has been created to address devices using this configuration.

I think SMART monitoring remains useful for HDDs, but I don't think we can trust it for all SSDs, especially not external SSDs
 
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