MP 7,1 Dual monitor suggestions for 7,1 for designer

[Gr1f]

Hey all,
So waiting on a 7,1 16c, W5700X base Ram and SSD. Currently trying to decide what I should do for monitors.

I currently have 2 X Samsung SMS27A850 Displays which I've had since I brought my cMP mid 2012 and I love them. Always consistent even now.

These were mid-priced monitors back then, I think about ~€7-800 at the time. They (or one of them anyway) will be going to the person who'll be using the cMP... So I'm trying to figure out what to replace these with.

Colour wise, the Samsung's have been great especially when calibrated. I had been using a Spyder Pro to do this.

I love having a 2x monitor setup and can't see myself going for 30" single. So 2x it is. I wonder about 4k though. at 27" 4k is going to make stuff look pretty small.

Ideally I'd love to get as close to Apple's retina without the price tag of an Apple display. Not sure what else can do this bar maybe the LG 5 k? Hopefully trying to stick to around the same budget as the Samsung's cost.

Usage is all design related. P.Shop, Illustrator, C4d, AE, Lightroom etc so good colour is required.

Any insight greatly appreciated.


Follow-up:
Here are some of what I've found. If anyone has any experience with these and they want to pipe in I'd be grateful.

Dell U2720Q 27 (~€800)
BenQ PD2720U (~€900)

the more I read into it the more I think in order to get anything readable on 4k pixel density from about 80cm away I might have to go to 30"...?

Maybe LG 32UN880-B... although not sure about the clamp. Can't seem to find this with just a stand...
or BenQ PD3220U

Researching monitors is a headache. Too many choices!

 

[Gr1f]

This has got to be one of the worst Photoshop compositing efforts I've seen on a supposedly mainstream brand's marketing material. Looks like it was done on fiver....

 

[codehead1]

I love having a 2x monitor setup and can't see myself going for 30" single. So 2x it is. I wonder about 4k though. at 27" 4k is going to make stuff look pretty small.

Ideally I'd love to get as close to Apple's retina without the price tag of an Apple display. Not sure what else can do this bar maybe the LG 5 k? Hopefully trying to stick to around the same budget as the Samsung's cost.

Maybe you already know this, but not sure due to the 4k comment (27" 4k object would looking bigger than Apple retina, no?)...For me, I wanted to keep a graphics sizing similar to what I was used to, but double res. That basically means 32" 6k (XDR), 27" 5k, and 24" 4k. That really narrowed the field for me, especially since I wanted bigger than 24".

On my old MP, I was using two 24" 1080p—mainly wrestled with 2 x 27" 5k, but ultimately felt I wanted more physical size than moving from 24" to 27", got the XDR with the idea that I could add one or two cheap 24" 4k on the sides. First, I don't regret trying to keep similar resolution—text on the XDR is noticeable smaller than my LED Cinema on the old computer, but so incredibly much sharper that it's easier to read than lower res antialiased text. So far, I've managed to work fine with the single monitor, since it has so much space. Makes it easier to have a good pair of monitor speakers on the desk.

 

[edanuff]

I have a pair of the Dell U2720Q monitors. I replaced a pair of Dell P2415Q monitors with them. The Dells are good monitors but they have well documented build quality issues around the bezels - you should closely examine them upon arrival and return immediately if you get one with a noticeable defect, suggest not wasting with support, just return in the return period and place a new order. Sadly 4K 27” is not an ideal resolution. I personally found that 150% mode looked bad to my eyes so I run in the recommended 200%. Scaling factor is really dependent on the apps you use and personal preference. In MacOS, at anything other than 100% or 200% some blur is going to be introduced but a lot of people don’t find it noticeable. I have these same monitors also hooked up to a PC and Windows 150% looks great.

 

[choreo]

Sounds like you have a very similar set-up and workflow to me. I have been working as a freelance designer/photographer for over 30 years on Macs. I work mostly in Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, After Effects, Acrobat, Capture One, & Lightroom.

Lots of what I do ends up on commercial printing presses, so accurate color it essential. I have done individual print runs over $100,000 and printed millions of dollars over the years - one color mistake could be devastating as all fingers would point at me first! Since 1998 I have always run a (3) monitor set up - it suits my workflow better than one or two massive screens. I have been using NEC Multi-Sync monitors since about 2005. When I bought my 7,1 last June, I went ahead and purchased three new 27" NECs (see link below). The previous 27" NECs I had were still going strong on my 2012 Mac Pro, but a couple of them were too old to work well with the newer ports on the w5700x - so in with the new!

The NECs I use are QHD monitors and are aimed more at color-accuracy/consistency than most 4K monitors. They cover 98.5% of the Adobe RGB color space, 96.1% of the NTSC color space, and 100% of the sRGB color space. They also all have non-reflective screens. The best part is the NEC SpectraView calibration software (you only need to purchase one of their monitors with the Spectraview calibrator - or you may be able to use what you have - have to check with NEC). The SpectraView software stores LUTs inside each monitor after the calibrations - everything is integrated.

EIZO monitors are perhaps even better with their built-in calibrators, but they are out of my price range. NEC also has been great with Tech Support when I needed it.

NEC MultiSync PA271Q 27" 16:9 Color-Critical IPS Monitor

Buy NEC MultiSync PA271Q 27" 16:9 Color-Critical IPS Monitor featuring In-Plane Switching (IPS) Technology, DisplayPort | Mini DisplayPort | HDMI, 2560 x 1440 Resolution, 1500:1 Contrast Ratio, 350 cd/m² Brightness, 178°/178° Viewing Angles, 8 ms Response Time, 10-Bit Support for 1.07 Billion...

www.bhphotovideo.com

 

[smallwonder]

I do color-critical work as well and have been using NEC monitors for the past 5 years or so. Very pleased with them.
I've always preferred larger screens and use a dual monitor setup. Currently using a PA322UHD (4k/32") and a PA302W (30"). I believe they have newer versions of them now.

Lloyd Chambers (no affiliation) goes into them in more detail. Keep in mind some info dated but still pertinent:

2.5K or 4K or 5K Display for Image Editing and Viewing?

diglloyd.com

Apple Pro Display XDR with Nano Texture Glass — the Shortest but Most

diglloyd.com

Reader Comment: NEC PA302W Wide Gamut Professional Display

diglloyd.com

 

[Gr1f]

I have a pair of the Dell U2720Q monitors. I replaced a pair of Dell P2415Q monitors with them. The Dells are good monitors but they have well documented build quality issues around the bezels - you should closely examine them upon arrival and return immediately if you get one with a noticeable defect, suggest not wasting with support, just return in the return period and place a new order. Sadly 4K 27” is not an ideal resolution. I personally found that 150% mode looked bad to my eyes so I run in the recommended 200%. Scaling factor is really dependent on the apps you use and personal preference. In MacOS, at anything other than 100% or 200% some blur is going to be introduced but a lot of people don’t find it noticeable. I have these same monitors also hooked up to a PC and Windows 150% looks great.

thanks for the insight! I've seen the effects of scaled and it would drive me nuts. So it would be 100% or 200% for me. Hence the reason I was thinking that the larger physical size of the 30" night be a better option for 4k at 100%..

I had 2 super Dell monitors years ago and always liked their higher-end screens but they always had crappy casings. Appreciate the tip.


@choreo thanks for the NEC tip. I think It was down to NEC or the Samsungs I have back in 2012... In fairness, these Samsungs have never let me down once properly calibrated.

So I guess 4k was of no interest to you? I think I'm in the "Do I need 4k?" camp...I guess I would like to get as close to retina as I can as I really like my MBP screen.

I still do quite a bit of print work and photography. Also been doing quite a bit of motion graphics too. I was reading about your recent issues with Adobe and the W5700X..... difficult reading.... as that's exactly what I ordered with the 16core!

Quick edit,
I'm at about 85% digital these days compared to print..... so while colour accuracy is important it''s not as important as it was when I was doing 70% print, mainly litho. SO, for instance, I no longer set my monitor up for 'paper' with a warm temp and usually stick to native white point...... (but lets not open up that can of worms I just find that I can be working on websites on one screen and doing a brochure on the the other simultaneously if you get me....

 

[choreo]

@choreo thanks for the NEC tip. I think It was down to NEC or the Samsungs I have back in 2012... In fairness, these Samsungs have never let me down once properly calibrated.

So I guess 4k was of no interest to you? I think I'm in the "Do I need 4k?" camp...I guess I would like to get as close to retina as I can as I really like my MBP screen.

I still do quite a bit of print work and photography. Also been doing quite a bit of motion graphics too. I was reading about your recent issues with Adobe and the W5700X..... difficult reading.... as that's exactly what I ordered with the 16core!

Quick edit,
I'm at about 85% digital these days compared to print..... so while colour accuracy is important it''s not as important as it was when I was doing 70% print, mainly litho. SO, for instance, I no longer set my monitor up for 'paper' with a warm temp and usually stick to native white point...... (but lets not open up that can of worms I just find that I can be working on websites on one screen and doing a brochure on the the other simultaneously if you get me....

To my knowledge, NEC still does not make a 27" 4K, but they do make a 30" in 4K. just outside what I am willing to spend on monitors. If all my apps, etc. were optimized for 4K it might be of more interest to me. I could have purchased a set of good 4K monitors for even less than the QHD 27" NECs, but like I say the NEC method of calibrating was far more important to what I do.

Yes, the w5700x card on both my 7,1's - just not ready for prime time - great when it is not crashing! Fortunately, most of the panics and crashes are when I am not working inside an app now - mostly when waking from sleep.

The main purpose of color calibrating and management is when your work will be output on another known device that has been calibrated and profiled to a known set of standards. With video and web all bets are off. If you go to Best Buy and look at 50 TVs on the wall - all displaying the exact same source feed - they will all look different.

 

[Gr1f]

I do color-critical work as well and have been using NEC monitors for the past 5 years or so. Very pleased with them.
I've always preferred larger screens and use a dual monitor setup. Currently using a PA322UHD (4k/32") and a PA302W (30"). I believe they have newer versions of them now.

Lloyd Chambers (no affiliation) goes into them in more detail. Keep in mind some info dated but still pertinent:

2.5K or 4K or 5K Display for Image Editing and Viewing?

diglloyd.com

Apple Pro Display XDR with Nano Texture Glass — the Shortest but Most

diglloyd.com

Reader Comment: NEC PA302W Wide Gamut Professional Display

diglloyd.com

Thanks for those links. Interesting reading!

seems like the NEC PA311D-BK would be a great choice but its cost is prohibitive at the moment. ~£3k....

 

[Gr1f]

The main purpose of color calibrating and management is when your work will be output on another known device that has been calibrated and profiled to a known set of standards. With video and web all bets are off. If you go to Best Buy and look at 50 TVs on the wall - all displaying the exact same source feed - they will all look different.

yep

As for the issue with that video card. I'll put my box thru Adobe paces immediately and see what happens. Can't believe that they're still shipping that as an option if they know there are issues!

 

[blackadde]

Thanks for those links. Interesting reading!

seems like the NEC PA311D-BK would be a great choice but its cost is prohibitive at the moment. ~£3k....

I have one of these. Been great - I would have got the Eizo equivalent (CG319X) if the price difference wasn't so huge here in Canada. Apparently ColorNavigator (Eizo) is just a much more polished experience than SpectraView (NEC), but I'm not often changing out of native gamut anyways because like you I live and breathe the Adobe suite, which is all color managed.

I went down this 'monitor for 2D work' rabbit hole earlier in the spring and the options are pretty much what you've been presented here: BenQ for mid-range work, NEC and Eizo tied at the high end for display panel quality (gamut and uniformity), with Eizo at the very top for QoL and support. Sometimes you see them compared to Nikon and Canon respectively; both great tools for the job, both with a different design and user philosophy. The primary reason these two cost so much more than even well regarded BenQ screens is build quality, warranty, and reliability - lots of internal circuitry is dedicated to constantly measuring things like white point, temperature, color drift, etc.

Eizo is also the last man standing for assembled-in-Japan displays if that sort of thing matters to you. I almost ended up with a CG279X which I'm sure would be a great workhorse for many years but I couldn't resist getting something higher-res after being on 1440p for so long. Bigger displays are really cost-prohibitive because panel uniformity becomes exponentially more difficult to maintain the larger your panel.

One last thing I'd mention is to consider tossing the Spyder and getting an X-Rite i1 Display Pro. By all accounts despite being in the same price range it's a significantly better colorimeter. It's pretty much all you'd need for the kind of work you're talking about, and the only tools above it are hardcore colorist scopes like Klein Instrument meters.

Edit: Forgot to mention - if you're not familiar with the major differences between profiling (measuring and attempting to compensate in software) and calibration (measuring and adjusting the display's internal lookup table), it's worth digging in a little. Few displays are capable of actual hardware calibration, although the three brands I mentioned here generally are.

 

[choreo]

One last thing I'd mention is to consider tossing the Spyder and getting an X-Rite i1 Display Pro. By all accounts despite being in the same price range it's a significantly better colorimeter. It's pretty much all you'd need for the kind of work you're talking about, and the only tools above it are hardcore colorist scopes like Klein Instrument meters.

I went with the X-Rite i1 Calibrator this time because the older NEC calibrator I had no longer worked with Catalina.

 

[choreo]

yep

As for the issue with that video card. I'll put my box thru Adobe paces immediately and see what happens. Can't believe that they're still shipping that as an option if they know there are issues!

90% of the time I have had crashes with Adobe CS on the 7,1 is right after opening AI, InD or Acrobat (like when maybe fonts are loading in the background?), but that is getting less frequent. Most of my crashes now are upon waking from sleep or for no apparent reason when it tries to go to sleep. Totally inconsistent and the crash reports all look different.

 

[Nguyen Duc Hieu]

How about the LG OLED48CXPUB?

 

[choreo]

How about the LG OLED48CXPUB?

That is primarily a TV, but it could be connected to a computer (I guess via HDMI 2.1?).

Looking at it's specs, it shows:
73.8% Adobe RGB coverage
94.6% sRGB coverage

My NEC's are:
98.5% Adobe RGB coverage
100% of the sRGB coverage

So, I would classify it as maybe a high-quality gaming and general use screen?

I use my 65" 4K Samsung Q-LED 90R TV in my photography studio via Apple Airplay when shooting tethered from my laptop in Capture One. It is great especially in Live View for modeling strobes and setting composition, but pretty useless for judging color accuracy.

 

[Gr1f]

That is primarily a TV, but it could be connected to a computer (I guess via HDMI 2.1?).

Looking at it's specs, it shows:
73.8% Adobe RGB coverage
94.6% sRGB coverage

My NEC's are:
98.5% Adobe RGB coverage
100% of the sRGB coverage

So, I would classify it as maybe a high-quality gaming and general use screen?

I use my 65" 4K Samsung Q-LED 90R TV in my photography studio via Apple Airplay when shooting tethered from my laptop in Capture One. It is great especially in Live View for modeling strobes and setting composition, but pretty useless for judging color accuracy.

Think I'd get neck strain looking at a 48" screen 30" from my face!

Whatever about colour.... I think I'm going to go middle ground on that. The BenQ PD322OU has 100% sRGB and I think about 87% AdobeRGB, not sure what the P3 standard is.....

My issue is whether to go with 4k or not. I really do not want to scale outside of 100%/200%. Scaled 1920x1080 on a 27" seems stupid to me as I'm already 2560 x 1440 on the Samsungs. 100% 4k might be unreadable on a 27" but could be OK on a 30-32"..... the mind boggles....

From reading way too much specs on this the sweet point seems to be 5k for MacOS. So this limits the choice to the LG 5k 27" from what I can tell. €1,350 (Or the Apple.... no thanks)

Kinda thinking I might just keep the Samsung's!

Going to try to get into a local PC store here at some point and hook up my MBP to a 27" 4k and a 30" 4k so see what's what.

Realistically, if I want to replace the 2 Samsung A850s am I going to see much of an improvement with anything for same ~€800 budget for each if I stick to 2560 x1440? Possibly with the NECs of similar spec, colour wise anyway. Maybe not-so-much if I go with BenQ, LG etc... does it warrant the cost?

I would be tempted more so if 4k is a viable option.

 

[frankiee]

Let me throw another contender in the ring: and that is the EIZO CS2740. It is 27" / 4K and all I can say is: once you go there you will NEVER want to have a non "retina" display anymore. However, be aware that you won't get 100% optimal scaling if you want the 1440P Resolution x2 (which you probably want at 27") so macOS actually renders at 5k and will downscale to 4k. But, in my experience the difference is barely noticable, if at all. Other way is to go with 1080P x2, but in this case the UI is too big, at least for my taste.

Other than that, the CS2740 is much more affordable than the CG Series, but still has top notch calibration, the display looks like everything is printed on paper, it even shows if you only work with text. So, highly recommended!

 

[Gr1f]

Let me throw another contender in the ring: and that is the EIZO CS2740. It is 27" / 4K and all I can say is: once you go there you will NEVER want to have a non "retina" display anymore. However, be aware that you won't get 100% optimal scaling if you want the 1440P Resolution x2 (which you probably want at 27") so macOS actually renders at 5k and will downscale to 4k. But, in my experience the difference is barely noticable, if at all. Other way is to go with 1080P x2, but in this case the UI is too big, at least for my taste.

Other than that, the CS2740 is much more affordable than the CG Series, but still has top notch calibration, the display looks like everything is printed on paper, it even shows if you only work with text. So, highly recommended!

Thanks, but as I need 2 x monitors the Eizo is out of budget

 

[frankiee]

I see! Still, EIZO monitors are well worth the investment, especially for photographers and graphic designers. No mattert what you choose I still highly recommend going for a HiDPI Monitor. (and for 27", anything going above roughly 160ppi - also depending on your viewing distance - should be enough)

 

[blackadde]

You do you, but a handy rule of thumb for designers: it is significantly more important to have *one* accurate display than *two* displays you can't trust.

 

[Gr1f]

You do you, but a handy rule of thumb for designers: it is significantly more important to have *one* accurate display than *two* displays you can't trust.

Sure, I've been able to trust my Samsungs for years. I don't "have" to get an Eizo or NEC to get accurate enough colour for a wide spectrum of design requirements. A well-calibrated high-quality monitor is good enough for 99% of the time - If I need to be 100% accurate for a large print run of corporate brochures I get wet proofs done. By in large I have rarely seen anything only the keenest eye could spot in terms of inaccurate colour. Maybe that's because I calibrate mine every couple of months. I guess I'm also used to being able to visualise the difference between ink on paper and a screen emulation. Pantone books never get old.

As I mentioned earlier I'm more digital than print these days - a lot more. (I'd still be a demon on QuarkXpress if I had opened it in the last 15 years!....as in - I've been at this a long time

I'd be happy with mid-priced high-quality monitors that 'can' produce reasonably accurate colour when calibrated properly. With a budget of about €800ish per monitor, I think I should be able to achieve this.

Consistency is important, no colour shifts across the monitor etc. I guess, as I mentioend earlier the main reason for the replacement is resolution. 5k would be ideal but maybe 4k might suffice. Honestly, if a 4k 27" or 30" doesn't work for me regarding MacOS UI scaling then I'd just stick to a 27" 2650 x 1440.

Seems like Dell, LG or BenQ's higher-end 27"/30" 4k might tick the boxes.

For instance, Dell has a sale on this:
https://www.dell.com/en-ie/shop/del...onitors-monitor-accessories#techspecs_section

Where I'm really fence-sitting is in relation to 4k or not. I would also assume that screen tech has come on quite a bit since the Samsung A850's.

Feedback from everyone is very much appreciated!

 

[choreo]

Let me throw another contender in the ring: and that is the EIZO CS2740. It is 27" / 4K and all I can say is: once you go there you will NEVER want to have a non "retina" display anymore.

The EIZO CS2740 looks great!

 

[choreo]

I'd be happy with mid-priced high-quality monitors that 'can' produce reasonably accurate colour when calibrated properly. With a budget of about €800ish per monitor, I think I should be able to achieve this.

You should be able to reach your goal in that price range.

One of the reasons I went with the NECs is I wanted all three monitors to match each other side-by-side. NEC provides free software to do that, but I have never had to use it as all three match so close after default calibrations. If one monitor in a set can't quite reach an ideal calibration standard it becomes the weak link in the set.

 

[frankiee]

I personally found that 150% mode looked bad to my eyes so I run in the recommended 200%. Scaling factor is really dependent on the apps you use and personal preference. In MacOS, at anything other than 100% or 200% some blur is going to be introduced but a lot of people don’t find it noticeable. I have these same monitors also hooked up to a PC and Windows 150% looks great.

Maybe my eyes are bad (shouldn't be and I tested the scaling settings to death and yes, at 2x it is a tiny bit sharper, but it still fells sharp at 1.5 (actually 5k scaled down to 4k). So maybe also the monitor itself plays a role how it looks like. Yeah 5k @ 27" would be perfect, but there was simply nothing on the market that suited my needs.

 

[Gr1f]

So I guess it's going to be down to 27" 4k or 30/32" 4k..... I watched some vids on 4k 30". The UI at native still looks too small to use.... So maybe Higher pixel density with 27/4k is the way to go