Dynamic Range VS Resolution and Auto-Focus

[Jac Robinson]

I am looking to purchase my first personal interchangeable lens camera. My target price range for a body is around $300. It will be used for family stills and also to continue to learn video. Up to this point I have been shooting photos on a Canon Elph 135 (an older compact) and video on my iPhone SE 1st gen. I am looking to buy used to save money. My budget for glass will likely only be big enough for a kit lens and perhaps a legacy lens.

I was set on getting the A6000 from Sony, as the specs seem fine enough for me. I like Sony‘s skin tones, and the A6000 seems well featured for the price.

Then the Canon 5D Mark II came on my radar. With a firmware add-on, it can record raw video, which makes for fantastic dynamic range (I believe around 12 stops). The Sony A6000 only has 8 stops.

There is a loss in frame rate, resolution (slight), and auto focus (major). Also, the Canon has a full frame sensor and the Sony is APS-C.

The auto focus difference is pretty big, with the A6000’s being pretty amazing. Although if I’m shooting with legacy lenses, then I suppose I won’t see much of a difference.

These are two very different cameras, and the Canon will likely cost around $250 more after getting a compatible card for RAW video. Also, one is mirrorless and the other is a DSLR.

They are from very different times technologically, but I still can’t figure out what I should value more in a camera in 2020.

Any recommendations on what to buy?

 

[mollyc]

So I really can't add anything of real value here in terms of what you could or should buy. However, I would steer you strongly away from the Canon 5D2. I had that camera, I loved it for awhile and it was a great until it stopped focusing well. This particular camera body has known focusing issues and is the reason I switched from Canon to Nikon in 2010. It's a very old model and I would not recommend it in this day and age, even as a budget camera. (Of course if you only plan to always manual focus that isn't an issue, but for stills I assume you'd want AF.)

I cannot give you advice as to a good, budget friendly stills/video hybrid. If you could afford it, the Nikon Z6 is outstanding at both stills and video but it is a lot more than $300 and you'd likely still need aftermarket stuff.

Hopefully someone here can give you actual advice.

 

[deep diver]

I can't add anything either, but....

You shouldn't be thinking in terms of what you should "value more in.... 2020" if you aren't buying 2020 equipment. The state of the art in cameras is changing too rapidly to make such comparisons.

Everyone has different needs and preferences. You can never know what's best for you until you can use the gear. If possible, try before you buy and see what you like more.

 

[kenoh]

Not much more to add here either....

The Canon 5D2 is not great for noise or hi iso. Also it is a full frame sensor and so lenses will be more expensive - even the "kit" lens for the 5D2 - typically the 24-105 f4

If you have been using the iPhone SE and Elph, I would imagine carrying a hulking great DSLR around isn't going to sit well with you. One of the main reasons I switched from Canon DSLRs was because they were just too damn big and I HAD to want to take one with me. Consequently, they orbited my house no further than 200 feet for most of their life.

One thing to bear in mind, now this could just be me but full frame DSLRs typically have been less "tolerant" of poor camera holding technique, it will frustrate you with motion blur in your images. They are heavy and image stabilisation is good if you have it but just know that as the full frame sensor will produce a "better quality image", you need to hold it steady as any movement is captured. A minor thing but worth noting.

On dynamic range and mega pixels and the likes, don't get caught up in the numbers. This is like saying a Ferrari is faster than a Porsche. When getting out of a Ford Fiesta into either of them, you are going to be excited by their performance. Yes 8 stops is a bit limited on paper but actually, what that translates to is it makes you more creative. In no way does it mean crap images. The 12 stops on the Canon honestly will feel very little different in real world shooting at least until you find your groove and need an upgrade. The dynamic range comes in when you are dealing with an image with a broad range of tones like a sunset or sunrise or when you have missed the exposure and need to correct it heavily in post production - it gives more flexibility but there are ways to work with it. I cant ever remember dynamic range being a spec point to decide on a camera choice.

Mega pixels are great but a couple of things, 99.999% of the world don't need anymore than 18-24mp. The more megapixels, the bigger the cards you need, the more storage you need to hold your library, the more powerful a computer you need to process them - this of course is an extremes situation, 100mp medium format or 60+mp Sony A7RIV will eat through your hard drive space with images in excess of 120mb PER image however more pixels mean more latitude to crop images later.

You mention legacy lenses. Lovely. There is a world of beautiful glass out there to be enjoyed but you want an EVF otherwise focusing will be a PITA. The Sony E mount is such a shallow mount that almost any lens can be adapted to it. Not true on a DSLR. IBIS would be good too but neither the A6000 or 5D2 have that.

I agree with @mollyc the Z6 is superb but a 64gb XQD memory card costs £150 for it! Wish I knew that before I bought one lol...

I am going to throw this out there. Have you looked at Fuji? a Fuji X-H1 with the 18-55 will be a great hybrid setup. It is weather sealed, has an EVF, 24mp, IBIS and it is great for hybrid shooting. Even the X-T2 or 3 or X-T20 great cameras, very portable lenses and are priced nicely and they are great for legacy lenses.

Also, the Fujis are praised for their colour rendition and the film simulations you get in them.

Also, when you are saying interchangeable lens camera, is this because you think this is a "proper" camera? The reason I ask is because you could also look at a Panasonic LX100 or one of the Sony RX100 models (mk3 onwards). Superb pocketable cameras and may be a viable alternative to your requirement. I took the following image on my RX100. Granted it is the latest generation.

Loch Lomond shores on a gloomy day - perfect for B&W. by Ken OHagan, on Flickr

For reference, I have been shooting the RX100 since the first version and despite me being joked at on here for having worked my way through every brand of camera available (apart from Hasselblad but that day is coming), though joking at this, I have four RX100s. The RX100 has been a mainstay in my kit forever. It is my go to camera when I am travelling for work (I am not a photographer), my go to for a day out with the kids when I might get a shot. Worth looking at. generation 1 has a 18-105mm lens, the 2-5a have a fast 24-70 equivalent and the 6&7 have a 24-200mm lens. At $300 you would be looking at a MK3 or 4. They introduced a popup viewfinder in the MK3 onwards which is great but not something you will use all the time.

Hope this helps.

Additional note. What you should value in a camera in 2020 is that the camera makes you want to use it. If it is in any way cumbersome, then you will not make the most of it and when you buy one, stop looking at cameras for a while. Focus on using the one you have. You will be bombarded with new whizzy widgets and fidgets. Resist.... what ever it is, learn from us, it is pretty safe to say that unless you went actively searching for it specifically, you dont need it.

 

[jackerin]

Seconding the suggestion of the LX100/RX100 models. I have an RX100iv myself and it's a bit of a marvel considering its size.

Regarding the RAW video capabilities of the 5D2, yeah it works but it's not at all straightforward. Not all video editors can even read the custom RAW MLV files since it's an unofficial add-on. Also the line-skipping in the 5D2 video can create some really ugly video. I do however use only 5D2 for my still photography, and paired with a good lens you can get quality images as long as you settle for ISO <3200.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I am looking to purchase my first personal interchangeable lens camera. My target price range for a body is around $300. It will be used for family stills and also to continue to learn video. Up to this point I have been shooting photos on a Canon Elph 135 (an older compact) and video on my iPhone SE 1st gen. I am looking to buy used to save money. My budget for glass will likely only be big enough for a kit lens and perhaps a legacy lens.

I was set on getting the A6000 from Sony, as the specs seem fine enough for me. I like Sony‘s skin tones, and the A6000 seems well featured for the price.

Then the Canon 5D Mark II came on my radar. With a firmware add-on, it can record raw video, which makes for fantastic dynamic range (I believe around 12 stops). The Sony A6000 only has 8 stops.

There is a loss in frame rate, resolution (slight), and auto focus (major). Also, the Canon has a full frame sensor and the Sony is APS-C.

The auto focus difference is pretty big, with the A6000’s being pretty amazing. Although if I’m shooting with legacy lenses, then I suppose I won’t see much of a difference.

These are two very different cameras, and the Canon will likely cost around $250 more after getting a compatible card for RAW video. Also, one is mirrorless and the other is a DSLR.

They are from very different times technologically, but I still can’t figure out what I should value more in a camera in 2020.

Any recommendations on what to buy?

Not a video person so I will add my un educated thoughts.

Have you ever stopped watching a video because the dynamic range wasn't wide enough, or the resolution wasn't good enough (above a minimum HD standard). I suspect not. Video out of focus? I think you'd just bin it.

The important decision is in the lenses. The body really doesn't matter as much.

Have you been to a store and handled the different camera systems? You might find one suits you more than the others. Thats why I chose Nikon when I started. That and @kenoh says its the best! (sorry off topic private joke!)

They haven't made any bad cameras for years. So whatever you choose will likely be a good choice.

Last suggestion. Do any of your friends shoot with ILC's? If so select the same one they use and you can borrow lenses.

 

[Ish]

Have a look at the Fujifilm X-T20. It's a lot cheaper and smaller than it's big brother, the X-T2 but still has a lot of its capacity. I bought one used very recently as I like the processor in this generation more than the follow up X-T3/30. Fuji colours are special and their jpegs are excellent quality, no need to fiddle with them unless you like doing that. Raw will give you more latitude but I tend to shoot jpeg+raw just in case. Worth checking out at least.

 

[||\||]

If you only plan on spending $300 avoid full-frame sensors. You will get more bang for the buck by going APS-C or M4/3. That Canon is almost 10 years old. Something will break soon. It's almost worthless for a reason.

 

[kallisti]

Not much more to add here either....

The Canon 5D2 is not great for noise or hi iso. Also it is a full frame sensor and so lenses will be more expensive - even the "kit" lens for the 5D2 - typically the 24-105 f4

If you have been using the iPhone SE and Elph, I would imagine carrying a hulking great DSLR around isn't going to sit well with you. One of the main reasons I switched from Canon DSLRs was because they were just too damn big and I HAD to want to take one with me. Consequently, they orbited my house no further than 200 feet for most of their life.

One thing to bear in mind, now this could just be me but full frame DSLRs typically have been less "tolerant" of poor camera holding technique, it will frustrate you with motion blur in your images. They are heavy and image stabilisation is good if you have it but just know that as the full frame sensor will produce a "better quality image", you need to hold it steady as any movement is captured. A minor thing but worth noting.

On dynamic range and mega pixels and the likes, don't get caught up in the numbers. This is like saying a Ferrari is faster than a Porsche. When getting out of a Ford Fiesta into either of them, you are going to be excited by their performance. Yes 8 stops is a bit limited on paper but actually, what that translates to is it makes you more creative. In no way does it mean crap images. The 12 stops on the Canon honestly will feel very little different in real world shooting at least until you find your groove and need an upgrade. The dynamic range comes in when you are dealing with an image with a broad range of tones like a sunset or sunrise or when you have missed the exposure and need to correct it heavily in post production - it gives more flexibility but there are ways to work with it. I cant ever remember dynamic range being a spec point to decide on a camera choice.

Mega pixels are great but a couple of things, 99.999% of the world don't need anymore than 18-24mp. The more megapixels, the bigger the cards you need, the more storage you need to hold your library, the more powerful a computer you need to process them - this of course is an extremes situation, 100mp medium format or 60+mp Sony A7RIV will eat through your hard drive space with images in excess of 120mb PER image however more pixels mean more latitude to crop images later.

You mention legacy lenses. Lovely. There is a world of beautiful glass out there to be enjoyed but you want an EVF otherwise focusing will be a PITA. The Sony E mount is such a shallow mount that almost any lens can be adapted to it. Not true on a DSLR. IBIS would be good too but neither the A6000 or 5D2 have that.

I agree with @mollyc the Z6 is superb but a 64gb XQD memory card costs £150 for it! Wish I knew that before I bought one lol...

I am going to throw this out there. Have you looked at Fuji? a Fuji X-H1 with the 18-55 will be a great hybrid setup. It is weather sealed, has an EVF, 24mp, IBIS and it is great for hybrid shooting. Even the X-T2 or 3 or X-T20 great cameras, very portable lenses and are priced nicely and they are great for legacy lenses.

Also, the Fujis are praised for their colour rendition and the film simulations you get in them.

Also, when you are saying interchangeable lens camera, is this because you think this is a "proper" camera? The reason I ask is because you could also look at a Panasonic LX100 or one of the Sony RX100 models (mk3 onwards). Superb pocketable cameras and may be a viable alternative to your requirement. I took the following image on my RX100. Granted it is the latest generation.

Loch Lomond shores on a gloomy day - perfect for B&amp;W. by Ken OHagan, on Flickr

For reference, I have been shooting the RX100 since the first version and despite me being joked at on here for having worked my way through every brand of camera available (apart from Hasselblad but that day is coming), though joking at this, I have four RX100s. The RX100 has been a mainstay in my kit forever. It is my go to camera when I am travelling for work (I am not a photographer), my go to for a day out with the kids when I might get a shot. Worth looking at. generation 1 has a 18-105mm lens, the 2-5a have a fast 24-70 equivalent and the 6&7 have a 24-200mm lens. At $300 you would be looking at a MK3 or 4. They introduced a popup viewfinder in the MK3 onwards which is great but not something you will use all the time.

Hope this helps.

Additional note. What you should value in a camera in 2020 is that the camera makes you want to use it. If it is in any way cumbersome, then you will not make the most of it and when you buy one, stop looking at cameras for a while. Focus on using the one you have. You will be bombarded with new whizzy widgets and fidgets. Resist.... what ever it is, learn from us, it is pretty safe to say that unless you went actively searching for it specifically, you dont need it.

Excellent post @kenoh! Very good points .

Seconding the suggestion of the LX100/RX100 models. I have an RX100iv myself and it's a bit of a marvel considering its size.

Regarding the RAW video capabilities of the 5D2, yeah it works but it's not at all straightforward. Not all video editors can even read the custom RAW MLV files since it's an unofficial add-on. Also the line-skipping in the 5D2 video can create some really ugly video. I do however use only 5D2 for my still photography, and paired with a good lens you can get quality images as long as you settle for ISO <3200.

Also very good points.

I don't have a great deal of experience with video, but I've been shooting it more lately. I'm not sure that "RAW" video is necessarily better (and I'm not sure what it actually means since video recording options for any of the modern cameras I own don't have a "RAW" output option, but instead have resolution and frame rate options; i.e. my Nikon Z7).

Not sure what software you are planning to use to process your video files (iMovie, Final Cut Pro, Premiere, something else?), but I would make *very* sure that whatever video editor you use can handle the "RAW" files from the older Canon if you go that route. I can imagine that those "RAW" files aren't standard or possibly even supported in current video software. I would definitely confirm before you buy.

I would also tailor your expectations to your budget. We are approaching the time when new iPhones will be announced. It is possible that the money spent for used equipment within your budget would be better spent on an upgraded iPhone. This isn't straightforward, but it is possible that a newer iPhone would be a better place to spend your money for your photographic and video needs. Photography can easily turn into a money pit. But I would ask yourself why you feel the need to move from an older iPhone and Elph to a dedicated camera system. Dedicated systems offer huge advantages in some respects to an iPhone, but in your budget range you might really be better off with a newer iPhone. Food for thought.

 

[kenoh]

Excellent post @kenoh! Very good points .



Also very good points.

I don't have a great deal of experience with video, but I've been shooting it more lately. I'm not sure that "RAW" video is necessarily better (and I'm not sure what it actually means since video recording options for any of the modern cameras I own don't have a "RAW" output option, but instead have resolution and frame rate options; i.e. my Nikon Z7).

Not sure what software you are planning to use to process your video files (iMovie, Final Cut Pro, Premiere, something else?), but I would make *very* sure that whatever video editor you use can handle the "RAW" files from the older Canon if you go that route. I can imagine that those "RAW" files aren't standard or possibly even supported in current video software. I would definitely confirm before you buy.

I would also tailor your expectations to your budget. We are approaching the time when new iPhones will be announced. It is possible that the money spent for used equipment within your budget would be better spent on an upgraded iPhone. This isn't straightforward, but it is possible that a newer iPhone would be a better place to spend your money for your photographic and video needs. Photography can easily turn into a money pit. But I would ask yourself why you feel the need to move from an older iPhone and Elph to a dedicated camera system. Dedicated systems offer huge advantages in some respects to an iPhone, but in your budget range you might really be better off with a newer iPhone. Food for thought.

New iphone - Good point well made.

 

[kenoh]

Not a video person so I will add my un educated thoughts.

Have you ever stopped watching a video because the dynamic range wasn't wide enough, or the resolution wasn't good enough (above a minimum HD standard). I suspect not. Video out of focus? I think you'd just bin it.

The important decision is in the lenses. The body really doesn't matter as much.

Have you been to a store and handled the different camera systems? You might find one suits you more than the others. Thats why I chose Nikon when I started. That and @kenoh says its the best! (sorry off topic private joke!)

They haven't made any bad cameras for years. So whatever you choose will likely be a good choice.

Last suggestion. Do any of your friends shoot with ILC's? If so select the same one they use and you can borrow lenses.

That was a sad day having to admit to @Apple fanboy that I had bought a Nikon AND that I like it. Excellent point on the lens borrowing.

I am not a video person other than quick clips in full auto on my phone or gopro but I thought emphasis seemed to be on things like s-log and framerates now rather than raw so can't help on this front. I got a Z6. Apparently a great video camera. Had it a year now and never even tried video on it.

@OP. please let us know what you think.

 

[Apple fanboy]

That was a sad day having to admit to @Apple fanboy that I had bought a Nikon AND that I like it. Excellent point on the lens borrowing.

I am not a video person other than quick clips in full auto on my phone or gopro but I thought emphasis seemed to be on things like s-log and framerates now rather than raw so can't help on this front. I got a Z6. Apparently a great video camera. Had it a year now and never even tried video on it.

@OP. please let us know what you think.

Nikon glass is a winner. I’d need a few more native lenses before committing to the Z system. And a lottery win!

 

[||\||]

We are approaching the time when new iPhones will be announced. It is possible that the money spent for used equipment within your budget would be better spent on an upgraded iPhone. This isn't straightforward, but it is possible that a newer iPhone would be a better place to spend your money for your photographic and video needs.

This is bad advice. Not true. My 10 year old 450D with a good lens will yield better results in all areas than the latest iPhone. iPhones have great cameras attached, but for someone who is serious about photography, there is no replacement for a dedicated device. Those tiny sensors just can't do it. You can't beat the physics of light.

Old Canons have the advantage of being able to use Magic Lantern, which is an amazing firmware upgrade. I have been using it for almost a decade.

 

[kenoh]

This is bad advice. Not true. My 10 year old 450D with a good lens will yield better results in all areas than the latest iPhone. iPhones have great cameras attached, but for someone who is serious about photography, there is no replacement for a dedicated device. Those tiny sensors just can't do it. You can't beat the physics of light.

Old Canons have the advantage of being able to use Magic Lantern, which is an amazing firmware upgrade. I have been using it for almost a decade.

I hear you but for family shots, and learning exposure for someone on a low budget, the computational aspects of the Apple image processing makes it a worthy contender. While the 450d was a great camera at the time, doesnt it fail your own "That Canon is almost 10 years old. Something will break soon. It's almost worthless for a reason" criteria?

I don't think it is bad advice at all just a different option to consider and most definitely an upgrade from an Elph and an SE.

 

[kenoh]

Nikon glass is a winner. I’d need a few more native lenses before committing to the Z system. And a lottery win!

I can't believe you have got me to say this... I use F mount lenses via the included adapter and they are amazing. Also as they have been around a while, they are at a good price point. Urgh, I need to go buy my soul back from the devil...

 

[Apple fanboy]

I can't believe you have got me to say this... I use F mount lenses via the included adapter and they are amazing. Also as they have been around a while, they are at a good price point. Urgh, I need to go buy my soul back from the devil...

Lol! So no need to think about changing my current line up?

 

[||\||]

I hear you but for family shots, and learning exposure for someone on a low budget, the computational aspects of the Apple image processing makes it a worthy contender.

Computational aspects are exactly why camera phones are not good for someone who is learning about photography. If the OP is trying to understand the photographic triangle, an iPhone is a really bad place to start. It doesn't have an adjustable iris, so it's not very useful in understanding aperture. The small sensor gives a distorted interpretation of FOV. There are a number of reasons why learning on an iPhone is a really bad idea. The student will want to be able to go fully manual, which is not possible in an iPhone. It is currently only possible in a dedicated device.

While the 450d was a great camera at the time, doesnt it fail your own "That Canon is almost 10 years old. Something will break soon. It's almost worthless for a reason" criteria?

I wasn't suggesting the OP buy a 450D. I was using it as an example of the superiority of an SLR over an iPhone. A very old dedicated camera will beat a brand new iPhone camera in every metric.

 

[kenoh]

Computational aspects are exactly why camera phones are not good for someone who is learning about photography. If the OP is trying to understand the photographic triangle, an iPhone is a really bad place to start. It doesn't have an adjustable iris, so it's not very useful in understanding aperture. The small sensor gives a distorted interpretation of FOV. There are a number of reasons why learning on an iPhone is a really bad idea. The student will want to be able to go fully manual, which is not possible in an iPhone. It is currently only possible in a dedicated device.



I wasn't suggesting the OP buy a 450D. I was using it as an example of the superiority of an SLR over an iPhone. A very old dedicated camera will beat a brand new iPhone camera in every metric.

Nah, I disagree sorry but this is the internet so it is not a problem to disagree right?

 

[kallisti]

This is bad advice. Not true. My 10 year old 450D with a good lens will yield better results in all areas than the latest iPhone. iPhones have great cameras attached, but for someone who is serious about photography, there is no replacement for a dedicated device. Those tiny sensors just can't do it. You can't beat the physics of light.

Old Canons have the advantage of being able to use Magic Lantern, which is an amazing firmware upgrade. I have been using it for almost a decade.

I mostly agree with you. It wasn't clear from the OP that the goal is to learn photography (or shooting video). The sense I got is that they are looking for an upgrade to their current gear within a very tight budget.

If the goal is to learn photography (and shooting video to a lesser degree) then I agree with you that the iPhone is a poor choice. If the goal is to get more savvy in post, then the iPhone isn't necessarily a bad choice (but may not be the best choice). If the goal is to improve the IQ of images and videos compared to what they are already using, then the iPhone might be a very reasonable choice.

I was just throwing out another potential option. No way of knowing from the information at hand what is ideal for the OP.

 

[Alexander.Of.Oz]

@Jac Robinson while the Canon 5D II can be hacked through the MagicLantern firmware tool to technically create (almost) RAW video, it's not worth it really. That super slow and notoriously laboured focusing issue it has will kill most benefit, unless you are a wizz with focus pulling manually. Full-frame Canon glass of decent quality is not particularly cheap either, especially if you want it to be good for both your family portraiture photography and video explorations!

I'll suggest the a6000 and a Sigma 30mm f/1.4 to kick things off for a good budget camera body and lens for family portraits and learning video on. I just traded in my a6500 for an a6400, as it is only used for video B-cam capture and I work from a gimbal or steadicam with it I don't need IBIS and would rather have access to HLG to colour match with my a7III easily. The better autofocus for the run and gun work I use the APSC camera for is going to make my life all that much easier too!

Look at where you are going to present your video efforts to determine a genuine dynamic range needs base. Be realistic about it, I had a BMPCC 4K cinema camera and got rid of it for the Panasonic GH5 and then got rid of that for the Sony a7III and a6500 pairing. Everything I create is shared on social media or the web, there is no need for me to have the extra workflow load of intensive colour grading on top of everything else that being a one man band has attached with it for documentary film making!

Investigate your explorations of video and the needs for that thoroughly. That hasn't been mentioned here at all. What sort of video captures, kids sports, dreamy landscapes, bustling cities, pets at play? They all have differing needs for camera bodies, glass and capture techniques.

 

[||\||]

I mostly agree with you. It wasn't clear from the OP that the goal is to learn photography (or shooting video). The sense I got is that they are looking for an upgrade to their current gear within a very tight budget.

I was responding to what @kenoh wrote.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

I haver been using a Canon 5DII for taking photos of the Auroras, and it works quite well for me as I don't need to use over 800 ISO. In fact I seldom past 600 ISO. As for the 5DII and video, I agree with others that it does not make any sense. Also, I disagree with others about the lenses being expensive. All depends if you want the latest and greatest, starting with IS. None of the Canon lenses I use have IS, and at least 2 of these aren't L lenses (42mm pancake, and 100mm Macro). Then a bunch of quite nice L lenses such as: the 135 f/2 L, 200mm f/2.8 L USM (black with a red ring), the 70-200 f/4 L, and a few others are relatively cheap.

That said, the 5D2 is an old camera. Please take the advise of others.