Emulating/virtualizing my old Macs and their data

[jent]

I'm somewhat new to these concepts so feel free to correct me or ask for clarification. I'm planning to get rid of some of my previous Macs (that are between nine and fifteen years old) and I'm in the process of copying all the data over to external hard drives so I can wipe the computers clean.

Instead of just having the data as files, I'm wondering if it's also possible to preserve the whole software setup in a way that on a modern Mac I can emulate or virtualize the old Macs, booting up into the old Mac OS X and running everything as if I were actually on the old computer, launching 32-bit Intel applications that wouldn't run on the latest macOS, for example. This would allow me to look at my old info from within the modern-day abandonware (as an example, I used the awesome Schoolhouse application to track all of my homework back in the day, but it died off and I doubt there is a way to export the data… and even if there were it was using the application itself that was so cool), play old games, et cetera.

I remember in the past that you couldn't just copy system files because maybe certain invisible files wouldn't be copied over, and you had to do things like "bless" the System folder. Given what I want to do, what steps would you take so that I could preserve my data and be able to emulate or virtualize (I'm not sure what's better in my scenario or what the specific differences are between those two things) my old Macs and their old data? Thanks for any help!

 

[ght56]

This is possible, with some caveats. There are two critical questions:

First, what is your current Mac?-year, model, and specs
Second, what OS' would you want to virtualize?

You can easily virtualize everything from OS X 10.5 Leopard (Server) up through the current macOS 11.1 Big Sur using a program such as VMWare Fusion or Parallels desktop. Provided your current Mac has sufficient specs, it can run these systems extremely well and the UI would be fluid enough for normal general usage. I'm a Fusion Pro user so I can speak more to it than I can to Parallels.

If you want to virtualize something older than 10.5, it gets a little more complex as you cannot do this with Fusion or Parallels. To my understanding, there are some Linux solutions that can do this (such as Pear PC), but it is probably not a very refined experience and I am not sure if the project is still active.

 

[jent]

This is possible, with some caveats. There are two critical questions:

First, what is your current Mac?-year, model, and specs
Second, what OS' would you want to virtualize?

You can easily virtualize everything from OS X 10.5 Leopard (Server) up through the current macOS 11.1 Big Sur using a program such as VMWare Fusion or Parallels desktop. Provided your current Mac has sufficient specs, it can run these systems extremely well and the UI would be fluid enough for normal general usage. I'm a Fusion Pro user so I can speak more to it than I can to Parallels.

If you want to virtualize something older than 10.5, it gets a little more complex as you cannot do this with Fusion or Parallels. To my understanding, there are some Linux solutions that can do this (such as Pear PC), but it is probably not a very refined experience and I am not sure if the project is still active.

Thanks for the reply! I have a 2006 MacBook and a 2010 MacBook Air as my old Macs that I'm hoping to finally wipe and sell, and my current/new Mac is a 2020 Intel MacBook Pro 13" with all the upgrades (2.3GHz quad-core Intel i7 CPU and 32GB RAM). I should add that I don't mind waiting a few years to virtualize the old Macs, and I just want to know how I should be preserving the data now in order to have them ready to boot up from the saved system in the future.

Maybe in a year or two I could buy the successor to the current M1 Mac mini in order to have an affordable Mac with a better GPU than the latest Intel Macs' integrated graphics. Regardless, I just want to know if I'm good to go by manually copying the top-level internal HDD's system folders to an external drive for backup (Applications, Library, System, and Users), or if it's necessary to use special software or settings to create a bootable image file. Thank you for any guidance and I'm happy to answer questions that might help clarify any other points!

 

[Boyd01]

Last summer I did exactly what you are suggesting. Got a top-spec 2018 Mini to replace three separate old computers using virtual machines with Parallels. It all works perfectly, and the virtual machines are much faster than the old hardware was. Replaced my old PC with a Windows 10 virtual machine and run all my old Windows software there.

Then I have MacOS Mountain Lion and Sierra VM's to use wilth my (very expensive) legacy Mac software. It was nearly impossible to find a good guide for setting this up the way I wanted with MacOS virtual machines. But I found it was extremely simple to create them from Carbon Copy Clones of the old Macs. This is basically just a one-click process in Parallels, but the hitch is that the VM will boot and run from your clone disk and not from a file on the host machine.

Parallels creates a virtual Mac disk, but it's empty. So, what I did was just use the correct old version of Carbon Copy to copy the system, apps and other files I wanted from the external disk to the virtual Mac disk. That worked fine and I then had virtual Macs with all my old software. It all worked out much better than I ever expected. Simplified my life by getting everything onto one computer which works much better than the originals.

But I'm a bit confused by your comment about moving to an m1 Mac in the future. None of this would be possible on the M1, it depends on having an Intel processor. Now, Parallels and others may come up with a way to do this through emulation, but that's something different that would have a big performance penalty and possibly compatibility issues. But it's not possible at all today, so I'm very happy with my Intel Mini.

 

[DaveFromCampbelltown]

My Mac computing history goes back much further -- to a Mac Plus.
I use Sheepshaver to run System 9, with AppleWorks, MacWrite Pro and a few others.
I was able to transfer all my old documents to this, and can now go back to articles I wrote for magazines in the 1990s.

 

[Boyd01]

Haha, I go back even farther - got a 512k "Fat Mac" in 1985. Before that I was one of the first people with an Apple ][ in 1978. I migrated a lot of my old files and converted them to newer formats as time passed. Played around with those emulators a bit, but I really don't need to re-live those days now.

 

[jent]

Last summer I did exactly what you are suggesting. Got a top-spec 2018 Mini to replace three separate old computers using virtual machines with Parallels. It all works perfectly, and the virtual machines are much faster than the old hardware was. Replaced my old PC with a Windows 10 virtual machine and run all my old Windows software there.

Then I have MacOS Mountain Lion and Sierra VM's to use wilth my (very expensive) legacy Mac software. It was nearly impossible to find a good guide for setting this up the way I wanted with MacOS virtual machines. But I found it was extremely simple to create them from Carbon Copy Clones of the old Macs. This is basically just a one-click process in Parallels, but the hitch is that the VM will boot and run from your clone disk and not from a file on the host machine.

Parallels creates a virtual Mac disk, but it's empty. So, what I did was just use the correct old version of Carbon Copy to copy the system, apps and other files I wanted from the external disk to the virtual Mac disk. That worked fine and I then had virtual Macs with all my old software. It all worked out much better than I ever expected. Simplified my life by getting everything onto one computer which works much better than the originals.

But I'm a bit confused by your comment about moving to an m1 Mac in the future. None of this would be possible on the M1, it depends on having an Intel processor. Now, Parallels and others may come up with a way to do this through emulation, but that's something different that would have a big performance penalty and possibly compatibility issues. But it's not possible at all today, so I'm very happy with my Intel Mini.

This is great to hear people's stories of reliving their old Macs!

I guess my M1 comment was just referencing how they'll get more powerful in the future, but you're right that my idea would take a performance hit since that would involve Apple Silicon emulating Intel CPUs, right? Anyways, I don't mind potentially buying a specced-out Intel Mac in the future instead for this purpose.

You laid everything out well, but do you mind simplifying a tiny bit further just so I can sketch this out in my head? Let me know if my understanding is misconstrued at all. The idea would be to:

• Buy Parallels and create an empty virtual Mac disk on the new Mac.
• Buy Carbon Copy Cloner and use on the old Macs to create a full backup/clone of their data, including OS files and everything that might not necessarily be copied over just by dragging and dropping them to an external drive via the Finder. Set the destination of the clone to be the empty virtual Mac disk created via Parallels.
• Use Parallels to run these virtual disks via virtualization from the new Mac. If everything is copied over successfully, it's just like running the old Macs in their entirety from within the Parallels application on the new Mac.

As a side-question, is there a certain format you would save the system clone in that's not virtualization program-specific, in case I ever want to use different software. I remember using SuperDuper! to create .sparseimage files back in the day, which are treated as a disk image file that I could mount and look into without any third-party software, so I'd love to be able to do that too.

Thanks for any additional advice!

 

[Boyd01]

You have the right idea. But you need to create the clone of the old machine first, then connect it to your new Mac. When you run Parallels and select the option to create a new VM, it will see the clone and offer to do it. That just takes a few seconds and creates a virtual machine with an empty disk, using the clone as the startup disk (just like you could start from a clone on a real Mac). I believe both Parallels and Carbon Copy have free trials, so you wouldn't have to purchase them right away.

You don't specifically need Carbon Copy, I just used it because I already had it. When you create a clone, it's exactly that - absolutely identical to the original disk, there is no special format. So one of these clones will be compatible with everything. Parallels uses its own file format to store virtual disks however.

There are other ways to create Mac virtual machines using the installer for the version of the operating system. I found this confusing, because you (evidently) need to create an image in the correct format first. I got frustrated messing with that and "discovered" that it could be done easily using clones that I already had of the old Macs. I'd guess that SuperDuper would also work for this, but I've never used it. I believe a Time Machine backup could also be used to set up the virtual machine.

 

[chown33]

When I create backups of entire disks that I want to preserve indefinitely, I first use Carbon Copy Cloner (because I have it) to write to a sparsebundle disk-image. I then convert that to a compressed read-only disk-image, which both makes it smaller and makes it read-only, so it can't be accidentally altered. At any point in the future, one can either clone the read-only disk-image to a read-write disk (or disk-image), or convert it back to read-write format.

After making the initial clone to a sparsebundle, I generally confirm the bootability of the disk-image before proceeding. I clone it to a bootable media, such as a fast USB thumb drive. I confirm bootability on this media, while keeping the sparsebundle untouched. If booting works, then compression of the sparsebundle is next. That can take significant time, which is why I check bootability first. Finally, I clone the compressed disk-image to actual bootable media, and again check by booting from it.

This may seem like a lot of work up front, but I'd rather put the time in at first, rather than trying fix mistakes later.

 

[jent]

You have the right idea. But you need to create the clone of the old machine first, then connect it to your new Mac. When you run Parallels and select the option to create a new VM, it will see the clone and offer to do it. That just takes a few seconds and creates a virtual machine with an empty disk, using the clone as the startup disk (just like you could start from a clone on a real Mac). I believe both Parallels and Carbon Copy have free trials, so you wouldn't have to purchase them right away.

You don't specifically need Carbon Copy, I just used it because I already had it. When you create a clone, it's exactly that - absolutely identical to the original disk, there is no special format. So one of these clones will be compatible with everything. Parallels uses its own file format to store virtual disks however.

There are other ways to create Mac virtual machines using the installer for the version of the operating system. I found this confusing, because you (evidently) need to create an image in the correct format first. I got frustrated messing with that and "discovered" that it could be done easily using clones that I already had of the old Macs. I'd guess that SuperDuper would also work for this, but I've never used it. I believe a Time Machine backup could also be used to set up the virtual machine.

When I create backups of entire disks that I want to preserve indefinitely, I first use Carbon Copy Cloner (because I have it) to write to a sparsebundle disk-image. I then convert that to a compressed read-only disk-image, which both makes it smaller and makes it read-only, so it can't be accidentally altered. At any point in the future, one can either clone the read-only disk-image to a read-write disk (or disk-image), or convert it back to read-write format.

After making the initial clone to a sparsebundle, I generally confirm the bootability of the disk-image before proceeding. I clone it to a bootable media, such as a fast USB thumb drive. I confirm bootability on this media, while keeping the sparsebundle untouched. If booting works, then compression of the sparsebundle is next. That can take significant time, which is why I check bootability first. Finally, I clone the compressed disk-image to actual bootable media, and again check by booting from it.

This may seem like a lot of work up front, but I'd rather put the time in at first, rather than trying fix mistakes later.

Thanks to both of you! So the clone I need to create isn't specific to Parallels or any virtualization software, right? Can I just use Carbon Copy Cloner or SuperDuper! now to create a full sparsebundle disk image, then wipe my old machines and sell them? I'm not necessarily looking to virtualize my old systems right away, but would love to ability to do so in the future. Much appreciated!

 

[MacBH928]

no, the ISO or IMG file is a standard like jpeg it works everywhere. Yes you can , you also can using the built in tool Disk Utility. Parallels has 14 days free trial, so try to perform the backup to ISO file then try to launch it in Parallels see if it works. It should work for all OS X version if you have an intel Mac.

this link should tell you exactly how to do it:

KB Parallels: How do I connect an CD/DVD ISO Image to a virtual machine

I have an ISO image file. How do I connect it to my virtual machine?

kb.parallels.com

 

[MacBH928]

When I create backups of entire disks that I want to preserve indefinitely, I first use Carbon Copy Cloner (because I have it) to write to a sparsebundle disk-image. I then convert that to a compressed read-only disk-image, which both makes it smaller and makes it read-only, so it can't be accidentally altered. At any point in the future, one can either clone the read-only disk-image to a read-write disk (or disk-image), or convert it back to read-write format.

After making the initial clone to a sparsebundle, I generally confirm the bootability of the disk-image before proceeding. I clone it to a bootable media, such as a fast USB thumb drive. I confirm bootability on this media, while keeping the sparsebundle untouched. If booting works, then compression of the sparsebundle is next. That can take significant time, which is why I check bootability first. Finally, I clone the compressed disk-image to actual bootable media, and again check by booting from it.

This may seem like a lot of work up front, but I'd rather put the time in at first, rather than trying fix mistakes later.

Why create it in sparsebundle? what you mean by saying convert it to a "compressed" image?
What I understood about sparsebundle is that it makes the image file into a collection of mini files that combine together when expanded/opened, but why? is this a standard or MacOS only?

 

[jent]

Why create it in sparsebundle? what you mean by saying convert it to a "compressed" image?
What I understood about sparsebundle is that it makes the image file into a collection of mini files that combine together when expanded/opened, but why? is this a standard or MacOS only?

I mention the sparsebundle image because that's what's stuck in my head after using it with SuperDuper! for my backups. It is the best option for updating an existing backup since if I recall correctly, it kind of treats the disk image like a Time Machine backup in that it copies over only the new/different files and prevents you from needing to copy all the data every time there's a small change. As you mention, though, what I'm doing is a one-time thing so I haven't really thought ahead to what the best format would be. What disk image format do you recommend and are there any specific settings/options to use? Thanks!

 

[Boyd01]

Can I just use Carbon Copy Cloner or SuperDuper! now to create a full sparsebundle disk image, then wipe my old machines and sell them? I'm not necessarily looking to virtualize my old systems right away

As I have said more than once, I used a clone of the original machine. It was not a "disk image", it was a physical disk full of files. In other words, a disk that is identical to the internal disk on the old machine. It would be exactly the same as removing the original disk from the old Mac and using that.

I'm sure there are a number of other approaches, but that's what I did, and it worked.

 

[MacBH928]

I mention the sparsebundle image because that's what's stuck in my head after using it with SuperDuper! for my backups. It is the best option for updating an existing backup since if I recall correctly, it kind of treats the disk image like a Time Machine backup in that it copies over only the new/different files and prevents you from needing to copy all the data every time there's a small change. As you mention, though, what I'm doing is a one-time thing so I haven't really thought ahead to what the best format would be. What disk image format do you recommend and are there any specific settings/options to use? Thanks!

What I know is a sparsebundle is specific to macOS system so I don't know how they play on other systems, as in can you run an ISO sparsebundle on Linux virtual machine. Some one more knowledgeable than me should answer that.

What I know the regular .ISO image should work every where, if you search the internet there are huge amount of resources. I urge you to check the Carbon Copy Cloner website where they have a lot of clearly written tutorials on everything.

One thing they mention is that disk images are not bootable, as in you can't use it to launch as a system, but I have downloaded many Linux .iso and burned them to USB's and launched them so I am not sure whats going on here.

As I have said more than once, I used a clone of the original machine. It was not a "disk image", it was a physical disk full of files. In other words, a disk that is identical to the internal disk on the old machine. It would be exactly the same as removing the original disk from the old Mac and using that.

I'm sure there are a number of other approaches, but that's what I did, and it worked.

disk image should be just as good as a 1:1 copy of a physical disk.

 

[Boyd01]

disk image should be just as good as a 1:1 copy of a physical disk.

Probably is, but I have a clone of my primary system(s) on an SSD so that I can boot right from them in the event of a failure. I also have a clone of my media library which is around 2tb. When the the original failed, I plugged in the clone and was back up and running in about a minute. This wouldn't be nearly as easy with a disk image.

Anyway, the point is that I already had clones of the systems I wanted to virtualize, so that's what I used. If you are starting from scratch and the only goal is to create a virtual machine, I'm sure there are other appoaches that work just fine.

 

[MacBH928]

Probably is, but I have a clone of my primary system(s) on an SSD so that I can boot right from them in the event of a failure. I also have a clone of my media library which is around 2tb. When the the original failed, I plugged in the clone and was back up and running in about a minute. This wouldn't be nearly as easy with a disk image.

Anyway, the point is that I already had clones of the systems I wanted to virtualize, so that's what I used. If you are starting from scratch and the only goal is to create a virtual machine, I'm sure there are other appoaches that work just fine.

Wait a minute...are you saying I can install Windows on an external drive and then launch it n a virtual machine?

 

[Boyd01]

I am talking about virtualizing MacOS with Parallels. I also use a Windows 10 VM with Parallels but it is installed on my internal SSD. You should also be able to install Windows on an external disk, but I have never tried.

Run Windows on Mac with a virtual machine | Parallels Desktop

Download Parallels Desktop virtual machine to run Windows on Mac without rebooting or slowing down your Mac, plus get over 200,000 Windows apps.

www.parallels.com

If you want to install Windows on an external disk, I suggest that you start a new thread in the Windows forum since this thread is about MacOS. The topic has been discussed there before.

Windows, Linux & Others on the Mac

Boot Camp and Windows discussion

forums.macrumors.com

 

[DaveFromCampbelltown]

I am talking about virtualizing MacOS with Parallels. I also use a Windows 10 VM with Parallels but it is installed on my internal SSD. You should also be able to install Windows on an external disk, but I have never tried.

Run Windows on Mac with a virtual machine | Parallels Desktop

Download Parallels Desktop virtual machine to run Windows on Mac without rebooting or slowing down your Mac, plus get over 200,000 Windows apps.

www.parallels.com

If you want to install Windows on an external disk, I suggest that you start a new thread in the Windows forum since this thread is about MacOS. The topic has been discussed there before.

Windows, Linux & Others on the Mac

Boot Camp and Windows discussion

forums.macrumors.com

All you have to do is tell Parallels (or VMware or VirtualBox) where to save the virtual file when you create it. Or, you can create it in the default place and copy it over to the external drive later.
I currently run Win 10 as a virtual machine on a high speed Samsung SSD and it goes like the clappers.
If I run it off my Fusion drive, it takes over the space on the SSD component of the Fusion drive and slows down my other applications.

 

[Boyd01]

That's a bit different from what I am doing with MacOS. I have a bootable clone of my old Mountain Lion computer on an external SSD. I used this to create a virtual machine in Parallels which resulted in an empty virtual disk file on my internal SSD, however it booted into Mountain Lion from the external drive, just like it would have on a "real" computer.

I don't know if that same approach would work with Windows installed on an external SSD.