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jbmillard

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 21, 2022
33
13
New Mexico
I have a late 2015 iMac (Intel - Monterey) that has an external (USB) encrypted 10 TB hard drive connected. It is used for Time Machine backups for the iMac. When I try to use the same drive for time machine for my MacBook Air (M1 - Sonoma), I can't connect. The error I get is:

The operation couldn’t be completed. (com.apple.TimeMachine.SettingsExtension error 5.)

I can mount my user directly remotely so I know sharing is working for the main drive. I have sharing enabled for the external drive. This worked before the external drive was encrypted.

Any ideas?
 

Brian33

macrumors 65816
Apr 30, 2008
1,471
371
USA (Virginia)
The short answer is that you probably need to create another volume within the existing container that is on your external USB drive, and share that new volume. The remote TM app on your MacBook will create a "sparsebundle" disk image on that new, shared volume. The disk image will contain all your MacBook backups (it will grow in size).

I think that will solve your problem, although I am mystified by that error message, so the situation could be different from what I think. My TM backups are currently HFS+ so I can't easily test this.



Background: (This is how I understand it, anyway -- open to corrections!)

Note 1: what follows is relevant to recent macOSes where Time Machine is backing up to APFS-formatted storage. TM backups to HFS+ storage have different rules.

Note 2: to understand your own storage, use Disk Utility and make sure you turn on View->Show All Devices. Then when you click on an item on the left, the right pane's second line (just below the bold print) will tell you what type of item it is.

There's a difference between drives, partitions, containers, and volumes. Typically when you "Erase" an external drive you get one partition, with one APFS container, with one APFS volume in that container. You can add as many volumes within the container as you like. By default, all volumes share all the space available to the container*. So if you APFS-format a 1TB physical drive, you could, for example, have one container enclosing two volumes, each volume claiming to be 1TB in size. 1TB of data can be distributed (and re-distributed) in any proportion between the two volumes.

TM on your iMac will not share its (locally-attached) volume with any other app (including a remote TM instance). In fact it appears to be read-only to other apps. However, you can add one or more new volumes to the container, and use them for anything you like. So use DU to create a new volume, call it macbook-TM, and share that volume. This new volume can be encrypted, or not.

On your MacBook, open TM settings and select the (remote) macbook-TM volume as its destination. TM (on the MacBook) will create a sparebundle disk image on 'macbook-TM'. The disk image has its OWN filesystem (since it's a "virtual" drive), which will be APFS-formatted, encrypted or not as per your checkbox setting. All of your MacBook's backups will go to the disk image's APFS volume.

(*) When creating an APFS volume, you can set a "reserve" size and a "quota". Basically, the volume will always be able to store at least reserve-GB available, and will never store more than quota-GB.

I think one potential problem is that both TM instances will try to use as much space on the (physical) drive as they can -- they'll both try to fill their own volume. So one might "hog" most of the space, leaving the other with a shorter backup history than you desire. I believe you could prevent this by using reserve and/or quota. With a 1TB drive, for example, you could specify the new added volume (for the MacBook) to have a reserve (minimum) of 400GB and a quota (max) of 500GB. (My understanding is that these numbers cannot be changed later!)
 

jbmillard

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 21, 2022
33
13
New Mexico
The short answer is that you probably need to create another volume within the existing container that is on your external USB drive, and share that new volume. The remote TM app on your MacBook will create a "sparsebundle" disk image on that new, shared volume. The disk image will contain all your MacBook backups (it will grow in size).

I think that will solve your problem, although I am mystified by that error message, so the situation could be different from what I think. My TM backups are currently HFS+ so I can't easily test this.



Background: (This is how I understand it, anyway -- open to corrections!)

Note 1: what follows is relevant to recent macOSes where Time Machine is backing up to APFS-formatted storage. TM backups to HFS+ storage have different rules.

Note 2: to understand your own storage, use Disk Utility and make sure you turn on View->Show All Devices. Then when you click on an item on the left, the right pane's second line (just below the bold print) will tell you what type of item it is.

There's a difference between drives, partitions, containers, and volumes. Typically when you "Erase" an external drive you get one partition, with one APFS container, with one APFS volume in that container. You can add as many volumes within the container as you like. By default, all volumes share all the space available to the container*. So if you APFS-format a 1TB physical drive, you could, for example, have one container enclosing two volumes, each volume claiming to be 1TB in size. 1TB of data can be distributed (and re-distributed) in any proportion between the two volumes.

TM on your iMac will not share its (locally-attached) volume with any other app (including a remote TM instance). In fact it appears to be read-only to other apps. However, you can add one or more new volumes to the container, and use them for anything you like. So use DU to create a new volume, call it macbook-TM, and share that volume. This new volume can be encrypted, or not.

On your MacBook, open TM settings and select the (remote) macbook-TM volume as its destination. TM (on the MacBook) will create a sparebundle disk image on 'macbook-TM'. The disk image has its OWN filesystem (since it's a "virtual" drive), which will be APFS-formatted, encrypted or not as per your checkbox setting. All of your MacBook's backups will go to the disk image's APFS volume.

(*) When creating an APFS volume, you can set a "reserve" size and a "quota". Basically, the volume will always be able to store at least reserve-GB available, and will never store more than quota-GB.

I think one potential problem is that both TM instances will try to use as much space on the (physical) drive as they can -- they'll both try to fill their own volume. So one might "hog" most of the space, leaving the other with a shorter backup history than you desire. I believe you could prevent this by using reserve and/or quota. With a 1TB drive, for example, you could specify the new added volume (for the MacBook) to have a reserve (minimum) of 400GB and a quota (max) of 500GB. (My understanding is that these numbers cannot be changed later!)

Thanks for the detailed answer.

I created a new volume on the 10 TB external drive. It has a 2TB quota and no reserve set. It is APFS, case-sensitive and encrypted (just like the other volume I use for desktop backups).

From sharing on the desktop, I shared the new volume giving read and write permissions to my local user name, staff and everyone (just for testing).

From my laptop, I can connect to my desktop under my desktop account and see my account files. I cannot mount the new volume from my laptop.

The error message is different: "You do not have permissions to access this server"

If I open TM and try to add the volume, it tells me "No Available Time Machine Destinations" - I assume this is because the volme is not mounted.
 

Brian33

macrumors 65816
Apr 30, 2008
1,471
371
USA (Virginia)
From my laptop, I can connect to my desktop under my desktop account and see my account files. I cannot mount the new volume from my laptop.

Huh. Right at the moment, I'm kinda stumped. It seems like you have set it up correctly. IF you are using desktop account credentials that are for an "admin" account, the permissions really shouldn't matter at all. IIRC, connecting as an admin user should let you see and mount all of the volumes on the desktop:

Screen Shot 2023-10-16 at 6.38.14 PM.png


Wondering if the new volume has "Ignore Ownership on this Volume" checked or un-checked, though again, I don't think that's the problem.

This seems like a problem with file sharing and unrelated (hopefully) to the TM volume(s). If you have a spare flash/thumb drive or something, you could try to verify that guess by sharing the thumb drive from the desktop and trying to mount that from the laptop. Does that work or fail similarly, I wonder?
 

jbmillard

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 21, 2022
33
13
New Mexico
I have a similar setup that works perfectly.

You said sharing is turned on for the external drive. But is it set for Time Machine sharing in Advanced options?

See:


Yes it is. Now i'm back to the error: "The operation couldn’t be completed. (com.apple.TimeMachine.SettingsExtension error 5.)". Not sure what is going on with it.

I also tried the volume unencrypted and get the same error.
 

chabig

macrumors G4
Sep 6, 2002
11,432
9,289
I have had occasional problems. Try deleting the volume as a Time Machine destination on the client machine and re-adding it. Let it adopt the existing backup.
 

chabig

macrumors G4
Sep 6, 2002
11,432
9,289
I have also deleted the backup file on the server and just started over a few times.
 

jbmillard

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 21, 2022
33
13
New Mexico
It works. I found a ~10 year old post on StackExchange that recommended turning sharing off and on again (or rebooting - which I hate to do). That seemed to do it. As soon as I turned it on, and added the drive to TM on the laptop, it asked for login credentials and then the password for the encrypted hard drive.

I now have an encrypted volume shared as a TM backup destination working with TM on my laptop. Now we just need to see if it is fast enough to be useful.

It seems odd to me that without restarting file sharing, I could see the volume from Time Machine but couldn't connect.

Thanks for the help everybody.

PS:
I have also deleted the backup file on the server and just started over a few times.
Thanks, I tried that too.
 
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