Exclude 2nd external hard drive from Time Machine backups?

[Dutch60]

I have 2 external drives connected to my Mac mini M4 Pro;

1x LaCie d2 10TB (formatted in macOS Extended (Journaled) for Time Machine and separate files.

1x OWC Express 1M2 (with 4TB Samsung 990Pro SSD inside). This one is new and I want to use it specifically for (photo) files. Nothing more. APFS formatted.

Installation went fine and the photos that I wanted, are on the OWC/Samsung.

BUT:

in system settings I excluded the OWC drive from Time Machine (using the "-" sign). I do not want this drive to be backed up by Time Machine. Time Machine should ONLY back up the internal.

After hours of Time Machine doing its job (yes, much longer than usual), I now see, that this external OWC still is backed up by Time Machine (!). Taking extra space ofcourse, and I do not want that. At the same time it's not easy to remove the OWC/Samsung from the Time Machine backup, because some folders inside are protected.

Any advice? What have I done wrong? What should I do?

Thank you!

 

[MarkC426]

I have an external TB drive excluded from my TM backup, and it doesn’t back it up…. 🤔
I am on 10.14, I assume you are on macOS 10.15, maybe a bug.

 

[Dutch60]

I’m on Sequoia 15.2
I’ve now manually stopped Time Machine; it seems that every Time Machine backups takes many, many hours. That’s why I stopped it now.

 

[MarkC426]

Try disconnecting the OWC drive, and see if takes as long to backup your internal drive.
Could be an issue with OWC and Sequoia.

 

[Dutch60]

Problem solved!
Thanks to advice on a DPR forum. I should have used the "+" to exclude a drive from Time Machine backups.
Not what I thought though , but it works!

 

[Dutch60]

Follow up;

I now obviously want to delete that OWC backup map from Time Machine.

Inside my "MacMini M4Pro" map I can go to several backups, already made by Time machine earlier today. When I open one of the few earlier backups Time Machine made today, there are 2 maps inside; "Data" (perfect), and "photos Samsung 990 pro" (which is the OWC). In the very last Time Machine backups, the "photos Samsung 990 pro" map is gone (which is exactly what I want and ). Only a map "Data".

Still I have those "photo Samsung 990 pro" maps inside a few Time Machine backups made earlier today. I would love to get rid of them! These take 1.6TB of space.

BUT, removing this map/these maps, seems to be impossible (?). System keeps saying that this process cannot be finished because some parts have to be skipped. It suggests to check this: show info / check secured is not active /check permissions on each file (not "only read") / try again.

I did do all this....no maps are secured and everything has proper permissions (read and write)

Then I try again....and same message again.

Do you maybe have any advice on how to do all this??

Maybe through a Terminal command? Some other way?

Thank you very much!

 

[gilby101]

1x LaCie d2 10TB (formatted in macOS Extended (Journaled) for Time Machine and separate files.

Can you confirm that this is really true! I ask because APFS format has, for some years, been the default for TM. The output from Terminal command diskutil list would help to confirm this.

In general, you can delete whole backups (e.g. all the ones containing the Samsung disk) but you can't delete folders or drives (maps?) inside a backup.

I don't want to be more specific until you confirm the TM format.

 

[ChrisA]

Follow up;

I now obviously want to delete that OWC backup map from Time Machine.

Why worry about it? When the disk fills up Time Machine will delete the oldest data. Eventually, the data you don't need to back up will be gone. In the meantime, it does no harm.

If you really don't want the data on the disk, you will need to erase the disk and start over ("Erase" is Apple's word for "format")

If I'm reading the above message correctly and the TM disk is not already APFS, then you have a very good reason to erase it. APFS is MUCH more efficient for making versioned backups.

 

[gilby101]

I know this is not part of your question, but I have to ask: How are you going to backup the photos on the Samsung?

 

[MacCheetah3]

Follow up;

I now obviously want to delete that OWC backup map from Time Machine.

Inside my "MacMini M4Pro" map I can go to several backups, already made by Time machine earlier today. When I open one of the few earlier backups Time Machine made today, there are 2 maps inside; "Data" (perfect), and "photos Samsung 990 pro" (which is the OWC). In the very last Time Machine backups, the "photos Samsung 990 pro" map is gone (which is exactly what I want and ). Only a map "Data".

Still I have those "photo Samsung 990 pro" maps inside a few Time Machine backups made earlier today. I would love to get rid of them! These take 1.6TB of space.

BUT, removing this map/these maps, seems to be impossible (?). System keeps saying that this process cannot be finished because some parts have to be skipped. It suggests to check this: show info / check secured is not active /check permissions on each file (not "only read") / try again.

I did do all this....no maps are secured and everything has proper permissions (read and write)

Then I try again....and same message again.

Do you maybe have any advice on how to do all this??

Maybe through a Terminal command? Some other way?

Thank you very much!

There was an option in the GUI. However, it appears to have been removed.

How to Delete Old Backups from Time Machine on Mac

If you use Time Machine to backup a Mac to an external drive, you may decide to manually delete old backups that are no longer needed. Yes, Time Machine does it’s own housekeeping, but someti…

osxdaily.com

I can’t seem to find an alternative, though haven’t looked far and wide in the CLI (i.e., Terminal) stuff.

Rather, it seems the solution (i.e., best course of action) is:

Why worry about it? When the disk fills up Time Machine will delete the oldest data. Eventually, the data you don't need to back up will be gone. In the meantime, it does no harm.

If you really don't want the data on the disk, you will need to erase the disk and start over ("Erase" is Apple's word for "format")

P.S. Argh! Now my OCPD has been triggered. I realized I have a couple of no longer relevant file/folder paths in my Time Machine backup exclusions list. However, I can’t remove them. In fact, I can’t seem to manage the list at all. And, unfortunately, the PLIST is in the system level Preferences folder, therefore, I can’t even edit it manually. In other words, it’s technically doing no harm but now that I know these pointless items are there, it bugs me — that is, until I forget about them again.

 

[gilby101]

There was an option in the GUI. However, it appears to have been removed.

That is, in part, why I asked about the format of the TM disk. Yes, it was an option (the article is dated 2015) for HFS+ format TM, but not for APFS which is what I would expect a new Mac to be using.

 

[MacCheetah3]

That is, in part, why I asked about the format of the TM disk. Yes, it was an option (the article is dated 2015) for HFS+ format TM, but not for APFS which is what I would expect a new Mac to be using.

Ah! I never thought about it being a file format related feature.

 

[gilby101]

1x LaCie d2 10TB (formatted in macOS Extended (Journaled) for Time Machine and separate files.

I see from https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/68115607 that your disk is old and has been used for TM for more than 4 years. It probably is macOS Extended (HFS+) - just as you said!

In which case the link given by @MacCheetah3 is how to do it. With a big IF - IF current TM allows you to do deletions that way.

But the case for reformatting and starting again with TM gets stronger as you will have old version operating system and user settings (~/Library) clogging up your backup (as well as the Samsung files you may not want backed up).

Just as @ChrisA said:

If I'm reading the above message correctly and the TM disk is not already APFS, then you have a very good reason to erase it. APFS is MUCH more efficient for making versioned backups.

You believed the first post and it seems likely you are right.

 

[Dutch60]

Can you confirm that this is really true! I ask because APFS format has, for some years, been the default for TM. The output from Terminal command diskutil list would help to confirm this.

In general, you can delete whole backups (e.g. all the ones containing the Samsung disk) but you can't delete folders or drives (maps?) inside a backup.

I don't want to be more specific until you confirm the TM format.

Confirmed.....macOS Extended (Journaled)

 

[Dutch60]

Why worry about it? When the disk fills up Time Machine will delete the oldest data. Eventually, the data you don't need to back up will be gone. In the meantime, it does no harm.

If you really don't want the data on the disk, you will need to erase the disk and start over ("Erase" is Apple's word for "format")

If I'm reading the above message correctly and the TM disk is not already APFS, then you have a very good reason to erase it. APFS is MUCH more efficient for making versioned backups.

I know, but then. I would loose backups on this disk. Not a very big problem, because I have another 6TB disk with backups on it. But this 10TB disk is already more than 4 years in use and I would like to keep around 3TB free space on it, so I can use it in future for backing up photo files...just an extra backup.
I do plan to buy a new LaCie HDD (8TB should be enough for only Time Machine...my Mac mini M4 has 2TB of storage).

 

[Dutch60]

I know this is not part of your question, but I have to ask: How are you going to backup the photos on the Samsung?

My images are on it (around 1.7TB). I just drag and drop them there and I sometimes also work on these images straight from this disk (images of older cameras). New images are first on internal. I work on them and when finished I drag and drop them to the Samsung (they become part of finished/older images), going back to these whenever I feel like doing extra work on those files.

 

[Dutch60]

I see from https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/68115607 that your disk is old and has been used for TM for more than 4 years. It probably is macOS Extended (HFS+) - just as you said!

Correct!

In which case the link given by @MacCheetah3 is how to do it. With a big IF - IF current TM allows you to do deletions that way.

But the case for reformatting and starting again with TM gets stronger as you will have old version operating system and user settings (~/Library) clogging up your backup (as well as the Samsung files you may not want backed up).

Just as @ChrisA said:

You believed the first post and it seems likely you are right.

How it's organised at the moment:
- external LaCie HDD 10TB
- on this disk almost 9TB is filled;

1. (one folder/map) Time Machine backups from my older iMac which I do not own anymore)
2. (one folder/ map) Time Machine backups from my current Mac Mini M4 Pro (all Time Machine backups are automatically stored here. I did not make this folder myself; Time Machine did)
3. Separate files (documents/images/etc.)

I know....not the brightest idea to have both Time Machine backups and separate files on the same disk.

Now inside number 2 (backups from Mac mini M4 Pro), opening most maps/files, I see " Data" and data only, which I understand and is ok. However, in 2 of those backups (dated yesterday), there's also the "photos Samsung 990 pro" next to the "Data" file/map. That's because I mistakenly added this to Time Machine backups yesterday; meanwhile I corrected this mistake, but the 2 backups already done (with the name "photos Samsung 990 Pro"), are ofcourse still there. I like to remove them, but that does not seem possible.
Before I stupidly added "photos Samsung 990 Pro" to the Time Machine backups, I had around 3TB of free space. Very good. I now have only around 1TB of free space on this drive (with nothing else added, this 2 "wrong". Time Machine backups must take around 2TB of free space, so I would like to remove them all together).

I plan to get a new LaCie HDD this week....ONLY for Time Machine (and yes, APFS formatted). Like I said 8TB should be enough for my 2TB internal

Thank you all!

 

[gilby101]

However, in 2 of those backups (dated yesterday), there's also the "photos Samsung 990 pro" next to the "Data" file/map. That's because I mistakenly added this to Time Machine backups yesterday; meanwhile I corrected this mistake, but the 2 backups already done (with the name "photos Samsung 990 Pro"), are ofcourse still there. I like to remove them, but that does not seem possible.
Before I stupidly added "photos Samsung 990 Pro" to the Time Machine backups, I had around 3TB of free space. Very good. I now have only around 1TB of free space on this drive (with nothing else added, this 2 "wrong". Time Machine backups must take around 2TB of free space, so I would like to remove them all together)

I get this and now that I am convinced (you did say at the start ) that you are using HFS+ (macOS Extended Journalled). The method described in the link from @MacCheetah3 certainly was the way to delete a whole folder/device (map) from all backups with HFS+ drives. https://osxdaily.com/2015/07/27/delete-old-backups-time-machine-mac/ Try this - after finding a backup with the /Samsung drive, you are looking for the “Delete All Backups of (Name)” method. It is possible that this has been disabled in recent macOS.

I have some doubts as to whether there is anybody here to test this for you as we have nearly all moved on to using APFS for Time Machine. We can point you to a solution, but not test for you.

An alternative method is to use the sudo tmutil delete ... command in Terminal. You will need to grant Terminal access to all disks. The man page man tmutil has this for the delete command:

"delete [-d backup_mount_point -t timestamp] [-p path]
Deletes the backups with the specified timestamp from the backup volume mounted at the specified mountpoint. The -t option followed by a timestamp can be used multiple times to specify multiple backups to delete. For HFS backup disks, a specific path to delete can also be specified using the -p option. This verb can delete items from backups that were not made by, or are not claimed by, the current machine. Requires root and Full Disk Access privileges."

That it refers to HFS is a good sign. I think you need something like this for each backup which includes the Samsung disk:

sudo tmutil delete /Volumes/BackupDriveName/Backups.backupdb/MacComputerName/YYYY-MM-DD-HHMMSS/ -p <path to Samsung disk>

You don't need the -d or -t for HFS drives. I have successfully used that command on HFS+ disks without the -p to delete whole backups. So some uncertainty here if you use the -p.

Since I do know the tmutil works to delete whole HFS+ backups, you can certainly delete the complete backups you made which have the Samsung disk included. This will delete the system disk as well, but only the few (2?) specific backups. The command for this is:

sudo tmutil delete /Volumes/BackupDriveName/Backups.backupdb/MacComputerName/YYYY-MM-DD-HHMMSS/

In summary I suggest, in this order:

1) Do nothing to this backup drive. That is a) keep the HFS+ backup disk incase you need to recover something and b) create new backups on a new drive formatted at APFS (the way of the future).

2) The "Delete all backups of..." using the fancy TM interface.

3) Use tmutil to delete all the content of the backups containing the Samsung drive (my last command above).

4) Only try the tmutil command with the -p option if you really need to keep the rest of the offending backups.

I put the "do nothing to this drive" first, because the others all have a) a nervous period whilst the delete happens, b) some uncertainty that they might just mess up the whole drive (my experience has been good, but ...)

PS. I have done exactly as you have done (forgetting to exclude a new drive) and option 3 above has worked for me with both HFS+ and APFS (APFS needs the -d and -t options).

 

[Dutch60]

Wow, thank you very much for this extensive post! I think, I'll follow your first advice; Do nothing to this drive.
In this specific case, I do not like a "nervous period" and/or running a risk of messing up the whole drive!
I'll order a new HDD and have a fresh start (while keeping my current HFS formatted drive, as it is. Just like you suggest).
In time, I might even buy myself an extra external HDD solely for separate files.

Thank you once again!

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Nothing to worry about here. There's no "mess" to cause problems.

As offered, just use it as is. Eventually, when it gets near full, oldest files will start getting deleted to make room for new backups. Eventually, it will be as if you wiped the entire disc and started over.

BTW: there is not avoiding old backups getting deleted in this situation. That's how TM works. When the drive is near full, the oldest backups will be deleted to make room for new backups. That is- in effect- the limit of your "back in time" capability. If we think about it in terms of actual time: X size disc will let you go back Y days to recover files. Step forward in time 2 weeks and Y is likely now to be 2 weeks newer too. Or perhaps more clearly: imagine you have an actual Time Machine and the limit to how far back in time you can go is 30 days... unless you put a bigger "HDD" in play to make that 60 or 90 days. As is, today you can go back 30 days (let's imagine that to be Dec 27). Tomorrow you can go back 30 days to Dec 28. The next day: Dec 29. And so on.

If this really bugs you, wipe the disc and do a fresh TM backup again (let it do it while you sleep so it doesn't seem to take so long) with the external already chosen to be excluded. But no real need to do this. Until the time that TM operating as it does will eventually reclaim the OWC space for future TM backups, you'll just have the OWC drive backed up ONCE too.

 

[Dutch60]

Thank you for your response!

Nothing to worry about here. There's no "mess" to cause problems.

Good to read. Still cautious here.

As offered, just use it as is. Eventually, when it gets near full, oldest files will start getting deleted to make room for new backups. Eventually, it will be as if you wiped the entire disc and started over.

I know, but still not the case.

BTW: there is not avoiding old backups getting deleted in this situation. That's how TM works. When the drive is near full, the oldest backups will be deleted to make room for new backups. That is- in effect- the limit of your "back in time" capability. If we think about it in terms of actual time: X size disc will let you go back Y days to recover files. Step forward in time 2 weeks and Y is likely now to be 2 weeks newer too. Or perhaps more clearly: imagine you have an actual Time Machine and the limit to how far back in time you can go is 30 days... unless you put a bigger "HDD" in play to make that 60 or 90 days. As is, today you can go back 30 days (let's imagine that to be Dec 27). Tomorrow you can go back 30 days to Dec 28. The next day: Dec 29. And so on.

I know how Time Machine works, but all this can be avoided, by simply detaching the HDD, keep all backups and files on it and buy a new one for a fresh restart with Time Machine. The "older" backup then becomes a kind of library of earlier backups. I know I could just clean this whole;e drive and start all over again (with new Time Machine backups), but the disk is already more than 4 years old, and the chance of failure is increasing, I think.
The first Time Machine backup on my hard drive was done on the 6th of July 2019 (as I can see, because my drive isn't yet completely full and I do not think any old backup was deleted yet by Time Machine).

If this really bugs you, wipe the disc and do a fresh TM backup again (let it do it while you sleep so it doesn't seem to take so long) with the external already chosen to be excluded.

But no real need to do this. Until the time that TM operating as it does will eventually reclaim the OWC space for future TM backups, you'll just have the OWC drive backed up ONCE too.

Not exactly sure what you mean, but I do not use OWC space for Time Machine and I do not wish to have that drive included in Time Machine.

 

[TracerAnalog]

Follow up;

I now obviously want to delete that OWC backup map from Time Machine.

Inside my "MacMini M4Pro" map I can go to several backups, already made by Time machine earlier today. When I open one of the few earlier backups Time Machine made today, there are 2 maps inside; "Data" (perfect), and "photos Samsung 990 pro" (which is the OWC). In the very last Time Machine backups, the "photos Samsung 990 pro" map is gone (which is exactly what I want and ). Only a map "Data".

Still I have those "photo Samsung 990 pro" maps inside a few Time Machine backups made earlier today. I would love to get rid of them! These take 1.6TB of space.

BUT, removing this map/these maps, seems to be impossible (?). System keeps saying that this process cannot be finished because some parts have to be skipped. It suggests to check this: show info / check secured is not active /check permissions on each file (not "only read") / try again.

I did do all this....no maps are secured and everything has proper permissions (read and write)

Then I try again....and same message again.

Do you maybe have any advice on how to do all this??

Maybe through a Terminal command? Some other way?

Thank you very much!

One easy but maybe radical option is to just erase the disk and create a new backup. I do that every few months. The backup is there for accidental erasures or sdd failures of my Mac. I have never needed it in the many years of using Time Machine...

My real backups are in the cloud and off site (aka the garden house).

 

[Dutch60]

One easy but maybe radical option is to just erase the disk and create a new backup. I do that every few months. The backup is there for accidental erasures or sdd failures of my Mac. I have never needed it in the many years of using Time Machine...

My real backups are in the cloud and off site (aka the garden house).

Thank you. I never heard of someone erasing the Time Machine disk every few months . Interesting idea.
But I cannot keep all my photo files on the internal 2 TB. Still want to keep them.