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radicalpoet

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Nov 16, 2020
11
0
United Kingdom
Hi there,

I've come to an impasse on the making after a period of what feels like exhaustive research on external nvme SSD's for my iMac video editing setup. My knowledge and experience has maxed out, and I was wondering if anyone with better insight would be so grateful as to help me with some final considerations?

Having held on and agonised about upgrading my iMac for some time, I passed on the 2019 releases in the hope the 2020 update would be the big shift and when it turned out to be the final Intel specs instead, I agonised further on whether to spec up a 2020 27" i9 to the max since they have an SSD and the T2 chip at least. But needing 8 years out of an iMac I decided it would just be a bad investment. The timing sucks. But becasue I need a solution to the hapmered nature of editing 4k, I ended up spending less than half my budget for now, on a base 2019 i5 model with one bump up on the GPU. I'm also currently awaiting the order of 64gb of RAM and intend to use this set up for a couple of years until I make up the budget up again with the intention to purchasing a high spec ARM iMac when they eventually finally arrive and have been road-tested sufficiently.

My issue stems from the fact the SSD portion of the 1TB Fusion Drive is a meager 32GB. To keep the system as tip-top as possible for video editing I intend to just have the OS and my creative apps on the internal drive so hopefully they'll stay optimally, on the blade partition. The rest of the Fusion drive will just be used for archive storage of old projects or personal media archiving that will be accessed very infrequently. I'm considering somethig like a T5 for the rest my apps and the Adobe premiere media cache. I need intend to have a 1TB external nvme solution to run all things video editing off exclusively, including 4k footage at times. I'm really stuck between a rock and hard place on whether to invest for the future 2+ years don the line or something a bit more modest for the next couple of years and just what level of speed is truly necessary to begin with.

1. Most primarily I have found data metrics confusing. As I have it, the file format/codec data rates are given in megabits per second (/mbps), whereas drive speed tests like that by BlackMagic, give results in megabytes per second (/MBps). The capitalisaiton being the distinguisher. There's 8 bits to a byte so the Blackmagic benchmarks can be multiplied by 8 if you want a direct comparison of the drive speed against the codec bitrate you'll be using. Do I have this correct?

2. I have educated myself on interface bus types and know they are the deciding factor in getting as closest to the capability of your connection type, which is often a misonoma if you have a Thunderbolt 1 drive with a 7,200 plate in it or a Thunderbolt 3 that only uses USB 3, or has SATA III under the hood for e.g.

Despite the speeds available on some m.2 nvme thunderbolt drives, it feels to me that even USB 3.1 gen 2x1 (10gbps) should be more than enough, despite the fact you never get anwhere near that. But if a device can at a minimum, say write 800MBps which seems realistic for many external SSD's, that would allow a theoretical data rate of 6,400 mbps (850x8). Looking at codec white papers, this seems huge and more than enough for the highest file formats I'm likely to use such as Pro Res HQ or Black Magic Raw 3:1 at the top end. Even with thermal throttling, it seems that there would still be head room. But am I missing anything here? I've read conflicting things on these boards for e.g. that you really should use Thunderbolt 3 for 4k editing from an external drive but also other people say they are happily using Samsung T5's without hitting a bottleneck. Why this conflicting sentiment?

With all the issues on thermal throttling on PCI4 and PCI3gen4 drives like the Samsung x5 and compatibility issues on separate drive and enclosures. A big part of me just wishes to something like a Samsung T7 or the San Disk Portable Pro V2 would just be enough for 4k editing. It's a shame in the case of the later, that the iMac Thunderbolt 3 ports don't support USB 3.2 gen2x2 at 20gbps.

Apolgies for the verbose post, I just wnated to be clear on the context of my issue and clear that I have done a certain amount of research to get to this point. Any pointers would be massively appreciated :)
 

Megabass

macrumors member
Nov 5, 2020
42
16
Moscow, Russia
USB does not support TRIM and Thundebolt does. If you plan to write/delete a lot of data, the lack of TRIM support on USB can cause poor performance. I have exactly the same dilemma now and am more inclined to the option with Thunderbolt. Theoretical maximum speeds for USB 3.1 gen2 - 10Gbit in practice is obtained ~ 1000Mb. Thunderbolt 3 has a speed of 40Gbit - in practice, ~ 2300Mb per write and ~ 2500Mb per read are obtained. Youtube has many tests and comparisons of external storage USB 3.1 and Thunderbolt.
 

radicalpoet

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Nov 16, 2020
11
0
United Kingdom
Thanks very much for your reply Megabass. The rabbit hole goes deeper again then. More research to do on TRIM. That's one thing that never cropped up in all the hours of reading I've done so thanks for pointing me in the the right direction.

Unfortunately I'm confused again with the math of data here. You write 10Gbit as equal to 1,000mb. But that doesn't seem correct to me. Shouldn't that be 10,000mb ? Thats a lot of data if so. The Samsung T7 gets real life write speeds of around 850MB. That's megabytes right? Not megabits? If so then: 8,500mb/s? Thermo throttle down to 600MB/6,000mb/s and that in straight number terms, that would still be plenty enough for lossless and raw codec data rates.

I get the impression then, that other mitigating variables spoil this party of straightforward numbers. Factors such as TRIM perhaps. I'm also not well versed in the tech to know what other benchmarks to look at for the purpose of using a video an m.2 nvme SSD specifically for video editing. Things such as the sequential and random write speeds and their relevance or not 🤔
 

Megabass

macrumors member
Nov 5, 2020
42
16
Moscow, Russia
Unfortunately I'm confused again with the math of data here. You write 10Gbit as equal to 1,000mb. But that doesn't seem correct to me. Shouldn't that be 10,000mb ? Thats a lot of data if so. The Samsung T7 gets real life write speeds of around 850MB. That's megabytes right? Not megabits? If so then: 8,500mb/s? Thermo throttle down to 600MB/6,000mb/s and that in straight number terms, that would still be plenty enough for lossless and raw codec data rates.

I get the impression then, that other mitigating variables spoil this party of straightforward numbers. Factors such as TRIM perhaps. I'm also not well versed in the tech to know what other benchmarks to look at for the purpose of using a video an m.2 nvme SSD specifically for video editing. Things such as the sequential and random write speeds and their relevance or not 🤔
You're confusing Gigabits and Gigabytes. 1 Gigabit = 1 000 000 000 Bit = 125 000 000 Byte = 122,070 KByte = 119MByte
Т7 shows a speed of 850MB, which is less than the theoretical maximum of 10Gigabit - 1165MB
Thunderbolt 3 is theoretically capable of transmitting up to 4768MB
 

Fishrrman

macrumors Penryn
Feb 20, 2009
29,279
13,377
I'm not going to try to diagnose your "wall of text".
You are overthinking things.

You really have but two choices in front of you:

1. USB3.1 gen2 (nvme drive in a USB3.1 gen2 enclosure) -- read speeds about 950MBps.

2. Thunderbolt3 (nvme drive in a tbolt3 enclosure) -- read speeds at 2,000MBps or faster.

Tbolt3 is more expensive, and the drives run hotter.
But for 4k, I'd probably go with that.

If you have a 2020 iMac, the internal drive is certainly fast enough.
I'd keep my projects on the internal.
When done, I'd move the files to the external.
 

profcutter

macrumors 68000
Mar 28, 2019
1,550
1,296
I'm not going to try to diagnose your "wall of text".
You are overthinking things.

You really have but two choices in front of you:

1. USB3.1 gen2 (nvme drive in a USB3.1 gen2 enclosure) -- read speeds about 950MBps.

2. Thunderbolt3 (nvme drive in a tbolt3 enclosure) -- read speeds at 2,000MBps or faster.

Tbolt3 is more expensive, and the drives run hotter.
But for 4k, I'd probably go with that.

If you have a 2020 iMac, the internal drive is certainly fast enough.
I'd keep my projects on the internal.
When done, I'd move the files to the external.
They have a 2019 with a fusion drive. Maybe the best bet is OS/Apps on internal fusion drive, data on external NVME via thunderbolt. If they experience slowdowns, maybe then get a cheap usb3 for apps/OS.
 

radicalpoet

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Nov 16, 2020
11
0
United Kingdom
Just to report, I went with a Samsung 970 Evo Plus in Fledging Shell Thunder enclosure in the end.

Made use of Thunderbolt 3 on the iMac to ensure the better speed. The 970 Evo, while not the fastest out there is non too shabby and the price is pretty decent which I found at £123. With not having Thunderbolt 4 connectivity there was no point in sourcing anything above the PCI 3 gen4 spec anyway.

The Fledging enclosure depreciates the speed to 1,600MB/s write but reads come in a lot higher at 2,300MB/s. I'm happy with this though. Fastest set up I've had to date and the Fledging Shell Thunder enclosure has a small fan which is pretty quiet so gives peace of mind regarding thermal throttling that all the closed units like the X5 seem to suffer from badly and seems to defeat the purpose of using NVMe drives for their advantages when connected externally. The case cost more than the drive at £135. But at under £250 all in, for case, drive and cable, I'm pretty happy.

Do any other users have experiences of NVME M2 drives connected externally on a Mac? Compatibility, speed and thermo throttling?
 
Last edited:

radicalpoet

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Nov 16, 2020
11
0
United Kingdom
I'm not going to try to diagnose your "wall of text".
You are overthinking things.

You really have but two choices in front of you:

1. USB3.1 gen2 (nvme drive in a USB3.1 gen2 enclosure) -- read speeds about 950MBps.

2. Thunderbolt3 (nvme drive in a tbolt3 enclosure) -- read speeds at 2,000MBps or faster.

Tbolt3 is more expensive, and the drives run hotter.
But for 4k, I'd probably go with that.

If you have a 2020 iMac, the internal drive is certainly fast enough.
I'd keep my projects on the internal.
When done, I'd move the files to the external.
Thanks for your reply. No, I don't think I was. A long post yes but while understanding these two main options, I was attempting to cover everything due to a limited budget and soon to be required future proofing and learn a few things long the way.

Wall of text or not, my signature states that I'm using a 2019 iMac. That was the one of the major issues going into this as I was trying to build around the Fusion Drive with external SSD's for the OS and dedicated video editing content and have it all work together smoothly for best performance.
 
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