External SSD speeds on new MacBook pro m1 pro/max ?

[Love-hate 🍏 relationship]

How are the speeds when using an external SSD,such as a Samsung T5 or T7?

 

[joevt]

How are the speeds when using an external SSD,such as a Samsung T5 or T7?

Hopefully better than on the first M1 Macs but I doubt it.
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ally-10gb-s-also-definitely-not-usb4.2269777/

 

[Love-hate 🍏 relationship]

Hopefully better than on the first M1 Macs but I doubt it.
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ally-10gb-s-also-definitely-not-usb4.2269777/

i know buddy thats why im asking,as i have got a mba m1. why do you doubt they fixed it?

 

[joevt]

i know buddy thats why im asking,as i have got a mba m1. why do you doubt they fixed it?

If it was fixed then someone would probably have mentioned it by now. I saw one YouTube video that said the problem where some USB devices connect as 5 Gbps instead of 10 Gbps has been fixed but I haven't seen any benchmarks yet.

 

[Templex]

Seems to be working as expected here. 16" M1 Pro

 

[joevt]

Seems to be working as expected here. 16" M1 Pro View attachment 1880403

904 MB/s is pretty good. I would feel better with a 1000 MB/s from AmorphousDiskMark.app. 700 MB/s is slow. A faster USB NVMe enclosure would be a better test.

 

[Templex]

904 MB/s is pretty good. I would feel better with a 1000 MB/s from AmorphousDiskMark.app. 700 MB/s is slow. A faster USB NVMe enclosure would be a better test.

True, but this should at least prove that the link is running above 5 Gb/s since the max theoretical transfer speed for that would be 640 MB/s.

 

[joevt]

max theoretical transfer speed for that would be 640 MB/s.

Max theoretical is 500 MB/s since USB 3.0 is 4 Gbps (5 Gbps x 8b/10b encoding) but your point remains the same.
However, USB link rate was only one of the problems mentioned in that linked thread about the USB of the first M1 Macs.

Can you show what the USB controller is of your M1 Pro? I think you should be able to select all the USB 3.1 Buses in System Information.app.

 

[Templex]

Can you show what the USB controller is of your M1 Pro? I think you should be able to select all the USB 3.1 Buses in System Information.app.

Sure:

 

[Fomalhaut]

Seems to be working as expected here. 16" M1 Pro View attachment 1880403
View attachment 1880406

Is that a Samsung T7? What do you get on an Intel Mac (if you have one)?

 

[Fomalhaut]

True, but this should at least prove that the link is running above 5 Gb/s since the max theoretical transfer speed for that would be 640 MB/s.

Indeed, but even with USB SSDs connecting at 10 Gbps, the M1 Macs were about 30% slower than when connected to an Intel Mac.

The Black Magic test above looks OK, but a bit on the slow side, particularly for reads. My T7 is about 900MB/s for reads on an Intel MBP16. On my M1 Mac Mini it's about 700-750MB/s.

So maybe they haven't completely fixed the problem . The write numbers look OK though, so possibly this is an anomaly.

Regarding theoretical speeds, my experience is that these are much lower in practice. At a 5Gbps connection with a SATA SSD known support 520MB/s (when connected at 10Gbps), I was only getting high 300s to low 400s. Even allowing for 8b/10b encoding (mentioned by @joevt ), you would hope for closer to 500MB/s

If anyone else has a fast (NVMe) SSD in a USB enclosure, could you please post some test results?

 

[Templex]

Is that a Samsung T7? What do you get on an Intel Mac (if you have one)?

It's not, it's a 1 TB SanDisk Extreme that I just picked up on Monday (Costco's having a sale )
I was considering going the NVMe enclosure route with a faster drive, but the value of the SanDisk was hard to beat, and I needed something rugged since I'll be traveling a lot over the next year.

Unfortunately I don't think I can offer a useful baseline on an Intel Mac, since my previous Mac was a 2012 rMBP.

 

[Fomalhaut]

It's not, it's a 1 TB SanDisk Extreme that I just picked up on Monday (Costco's having a sale )
I was considering going the NVMe enclosure route with a faster drive, but the value of the SanDisk was hard to beat, and I needed something rugged since I'll be traveling a lot over the next year.

Unfortunately I don't think I can offer a useful baseline on an Intel Mac, since my previous Mac was a 2012 rMBP.

No worries. I'm sure other people will post their USB SSD results and we'll see if it's any better now.

 

[99 others]

i saw a youtube video and they say it is not fixed at all. Write speeds are now a little bit faster now but that’s all.
Not happy at all.

 

[Norbex]

I'm using a M1-chip MBP and to test it with Sandisk E61 (claimed to offer around nearly 1GB/s max. speed on read and written), the actual speed falls into between 630-650MB/s both on read and written.

Sandisk E61 supports USB 3.2 gen2, and I can tell the anomaly on speed but dunno know why. That's it.

 

[daniel-von-ba]

Indeed, but even with USB SSDs connecting at 10 Gbps, the M1 Macs were about 30% slower than when connected to an Intel Mac.

The Black Magic test above looks OK, but a bit on the slow side, particularly for reads. My T7 is about 900MB/s for reads on an Intel MBP16. On my M1 Mac Mini it's about 700-750MB/s.

So maybe they haven't completely fixed the problem . The write numbers look OK though, so possibly this is an anomaly.

Regarding theoretical speeds, my experience is that these are much lower in practice. At a 5Gbps connection with a SATA SSD known support 520MB/s (when connected at 10Gbps), I was only getting high 300s to low 400s. Even allowing for 8b/10b encoding (mentioned by @joevt ), you would hope for closer to 500MB/s

If anyone else has a fast (NVMe) SSD in a USB enclosure, could you please post some test results?

I have m1 air, samsung nvme in enclosure that should support 10gbit

i’m getting approx. 640write/read when connecting directly to mac and about 700-720 when connecting via Dell thunderbolt 3 docking station.

enclosure is AXAGON EEM2-UG2
disk is Samsung 980 500 GB
Dell wd19TB is the docking

Bit disappointed bc I expected 10gbit speeds via the docking (which connects to mac via thunderbolt) I used this setup to get around that annoying problem where usb3.1 on m1 only connects 5gbit instead 10gbit. The docking station should help get around this problem and while i can get faster speeds, its still pretty far from the 10gbit

anyone has suggestions? thanks!!!

 

[joevt]

I have m1 air, samsung nvme in enclosure that should support 10gbit

i’m getting approx. 640write/read when connecting directly to mac and about 700-720 when connecting via Dell thunderbolt 3 docking station.

enclosure is AXAGON EEM2-UG2
disk is Samsung 980 500 GB
Dell wd19TB is the docking

Bit disappointed bc I expected 10gbit speeds via the docking (which connects to mac via thunderbolt) I used this setup to get around that annoying problem where usb3.1 on m1 only connects 5gbit instead 10gbit. The docking station should help get around this problem and while i can get faster speeds, its still pretty far from the 10gbit

anyone has suggestions? thanks!!!

Are you connecting the AXAGON to the downstream Thunderbolt port of the Dell wd19TB? If not, then what is the USB bus controller that the AXAGON is connected to? What does it say in the USB tab and the PCI tab of System Information.app?

 

[daniel-von-ba]

Are you connecting the AXAGON to the downstream Thunderbolt port of the Dell wd19TB? If not, then what is the USB bus controller that the AXAGON is connected to? What does it say in the USB tab and the PCI tab of System Information.app?

Hi Joevt, sorry for late reply! Not sure I understand your question, but here's the screenshots I get. How I read this is that the SSD drive (connected via NVME Axagon enclosure) theoretically is capable of transferring 10Gb/s as it connects via USB3.1, but as the speedtest below says, it only transfers ˜720MB/s which is around 6Gb/s.

Would this be due to the enclosure or do you think this is because the faulty M1's where they are known to have slower transfers and, in the future, this can be corrected via Apple update.

It's also interesting that when the SSD is connected directly to the port in Mac (and not via the Thunderbolt docking station) it transfers full 5Gb/s capacity (ie ˜630MB/s)

Thanks for any advice.

 

[joevt]

Hi Joevt, sorry for late reply! Not sure I understand your question, but here's the screenshots I get.

The screenshot is missing info about the USB 3.1 Bus.
Instead of a screenshot, try this:
system_profiler SPUSBDataType SPPCIDataType

How I read this is that the SSD drive (connected via NVME Axagon enclosure) theoretically is capable of transferring 10Gb/s as it connects via USB3.1, but as the speedtest below says, it only transfers ˜720MB/s which is around 6Gb/s.

Need info on the USB 3.1 Bus to find out if the controller might have a PCIe bottleneck.

Would this be due to the enclosure or do you think this is because the faulty M1's where they are known to have slower transfers and, in the future, this can be corrected via Apple update.

Since it's a Thunderbolt 3 Dock and not Thunderbolt 4 dock and not a USB hub, it will have its own USB controllers and therefore will not be affected by M1 USB controller problems.

It's also interesting that when the SSD is connected directly to the port in Mac (and not via the Thunderbolt docking station) it transfers full 5Gb/s capacity (ie ˜630MB/s)

USB 5 Gbps can only do ≈450 MB/s.
5 Gbps USB uses 8b/10b (like SATA and DisplayPort and HDMI) encoding which means 4 Gbps of data = 500 MB/s max. USB Protocol overhead reduces that into the 400+ MB/s range.
10 Gbps USB uses 128b/132b encoding which allows 9.7 Gbps of data so it's more than twice as fast as 5 Gbps USB.

 

[daniel-von-ba]

thank you Joevt, is this it? Any advice how I can get better speed? Thanks for your advice!

after this then the list then shows what I screenshot above

 

[joevt]

thank you Joevt, is this it?

I can't tell because it's still a partial list. Post the text from the system_profiler output instead of these giant screenshots.

 

[daniel-von-ba]

full copy&paste:



system_profiler SPUSBDataType SPPCIDataType


USB:





USB 3.1 Bus:





Host Controller Driver: AppleT8103USBXHCI





USB 3.1 Bus:





Host Controller Driver: AppleT8103USBXHCI





USB 3.1 Bus:





Host Controller Driver: AppleUSBXHCITR


PCI Device ID: 0x15f0


PCI Revision ID: 0x0006


PCI Vendor ID: 0x8086





Dell dock:





Product ID: 0x0487


Vendor ID: 0x0bda (Realtek Semiconductor Corp.)


Version: 1.47


Speed: Up to 10 Gb/s


Manufacturer: Dell Inc.


Location ID: 0x02400000 / 3


Current Available (mA): 900


Current Required (mA): 0


Extra Operating Current (mA): 0





USB 10/100/1000 LAN:





Product ID: 0x8153


Vendor ID: 0x0bda (Realtek Semiconductor Corp.)


Version: 31.11


Serial Number: 111000001


Speed: Up to 5 Gb/s


Manufacturer: Realtek


Location ID: 0x02440000 / 50


Current Available (mA): 900


Current Required (mA): 288


Extra Operating Current (mA): 0





Dell dock:





Product ID: 0x0413


Vendor ID: 0x0bda (Realtek Semiconductor Corp.)


Version: 1.21


Speed: Up to 5 Gb/s


Manufacturer: Dell Inc.


Location ID: 0x02430000 / 32


Current Available (mA): 900


Current Required (mA): 0


Extra Operating Current (mA): 0





2-Port USB 3.1 Hub:





Product ID: 0x0409


Vendor ID: 0x0bda (Realtek Semiconductor Corp.)


Version: 1.36


Speed: Up to 5 Gb/s


Manufacturer: Generic


Location ID: 0x02432000 / 22


Current Available (mA): 900


Current Required (mA): 0


Extra Operating Current (mA): 0





USB 3.0 Device:





Product ID: 0x0578


Vendor ID: 0x152d (JMicron Technology Corp.)


Version: 3.01


Serial Number: 000000004BA8


Speed: Up to 5 Gb/s


Manufacturer: USB 3.0 Device


Location ID: 0x02432100 / 48


Current Available (mA): 900


Current Required (mA): 896


Extra Operating Current (mA): 0


Media:


D HTS541010A9E66:


Capacity: 1 TB (1 000 204 886 016 bytes)


Removable Media: No


BSD Name: disk5


Logical Unit: 0


Partition Map Type: GPT (GUID Partition Table)


S.M.A.R.T. status: Verified


USB Interface: 0


Volumes:


EFI:


Capacity: 209,7 MB (209 715 200 bytes)


File System: MS-DOS FAT32


BSD Name: disk5s1


Content: EFI


Volume UUID: 0E239BC6-F960-3107-89CF-1C97F78BB46B


1tb_macOS:


Capacity: 999,86 GB (999 860 912 128 bytes)


Free: 240,57 GB (240 571 367 424 bytes)


Writable: Yes


File System: Case-Sensitive Journaled HFS+


BSD Name: disk5s2


Mount Point: /Volumes/1tb_macOS


Content: Apple_HFS


Volume UUID: 3FCD9F57-E511-388F-A5E2-3E44D3FE6DCC





JetDrive:





Product ID: 0x07d1


Vendor ID: 0x174c (ASMedia Technology Inc.)


Version: 10.00


Serial Number: 20141204B436400844AB


Speed: Up to 5 Gb/s


Manufacturer: Transcend


Location ID: 0x02431000 / 24


Current Available (mA): 900


Current Required (mA): 0


Extra Operating Current (mA): 0


Media:


Transcend:


Capacity: 121,33 GB (121 332 826 112 bytes)


Removable Media: No


BSD Name: disk4


Logical Unit: 0


Partition Map Type: GPT (GUID Partition Table)


S.M.A.R.T. status: Verified


USB Interface: 0


Volumes:


EFI:


Capacity: 209,7 MB (209 715 200 bytes)


File System: MS-DOS FAT32


BSD Name: disk4s1


Content: EFI


Volume UUID: BDC1974F-6B8C-3DAE-9DB2-3AA3C17BF506


Macintosh HD_portable:


Capacity: 120,47 GB (120 473 067 520 bytes)


Free: 9,41 GB (9 407 315 968 bytes)


Writable: Yes


File System: Journaled HFS+


BSD Name: disk4s2


Mount Point: /Volumes/Macintosh HD_portable


Content: Apple_HFS


Volume UUID: F29E9096-87F6-3B9F-8C5B-6983176F73B7





AXAGON USB M.2 NVMe box:





Product ID: 0x0562


Vendor ID: 0x152d (JMicron Technology Corp.)


Version: 2.09


Serial Number: DD56419883E09


Speed: Up to 10 Gb/s


Manufacturer: JMicron


Location ID: 0x02300000 / 18


Current Available (mA): 900


Current Required (mA): 896


Extra Operating Current (mA): 0


Media:


SSD 980 500G:


Capacity: 500,11 GB (500 107 862 016 bytes)


Removable Media: No


BSD Name: disk6


Logical Unit: 0


Partition Map Type: GPT (GUID Partition Table)


S.M.A.R.T. status: Verified


USB Interface: 0


Volumes:


EFI:


Capacity: 209,7 MB (209 715 200 bytes)


File System: MS-DOS FAT32


BSD Name: disk6s1


Content: EFI


Volume UUID: 0E239BC6-F960-3107-89CF-1C97F78BB46B


disk6s2:


Capacity: 499,9 GB (499 898 105 856 bytes)


BSD Name: disk6s2


Content: Apple_APFS





Dell dock:





Product ID: 0x5487


Vendor ID: 0x0bda (Realtek Semiconductor Corp.)


Version: 1.47


Speed: Up to 480 Mb/s


Manufacturer: Dell Inc.


Location ID: 0x02200000 / 25


Current Available (mA): 500


Current Required (mA): 0


Extra Operating Current (mA): 0





Dell dock:





Product ID: 0xb06e


Vendor ID: 0x413c (Dell Inc.)


Version: 1.01


Speed: Up to 480 Mb/s


Location ID: 0x02250000 / 2


Current Available (mA): 500


Current Required (mA): 100


Extra Operating Current (mA): 0





Dell dock:





Product ID: 0x5413


Vendor ID: 0x0bda (Realtek Semiconductor Corp.)


Version: 1.21


Speed: Up to 480 Mb/s


Manufacturer: Dell Inc.


Location ID: 0x02230000 / 26


Current Available (mA): 500


Current Required (mA): 0


Extra Operating Current (mA): 0





Dell dock:





Product ID: 0xb06f


Vendor ID: 0x413c (Dell Inc.)


Version: 1.01


Speed: Up to 480 Mb/s


Location ID: 0x02235000 / 37


Current Available (mA): 500


Current Required (mA): 100


Extra Operating Current (mA): 0





USB Audio:





Product ID: 0x402e


Vendor ID: 0x0bda (Realtek Semiconductor Corp.)


Version: 0.01


Serial Number: 200901010001


Speed: Up to 480 Mb/s


Manufacturer: Generic


Location ID: 0x02234000 / 34


Current Available (mA): 500


Current Required (mA): 500


Extra Operating Current (mA): 0





Dell Universal Receiver:





Product ID: 0x2514


Vendor ID: 0x413c (Dell Inc.)


Version: 2.22


Speed: Up to 12 Mb/s


Manufacturer: Dell Computer Corp


Location ID: 0x02233000 / 6


Current Available (mA): 500


Current Required (mA): 100


Extra Operating Current (mA): 0





3-Port USB 2.1 Hub:





Product ID: 0x5409


Vendor ID: 0x0bda (Realtek Semiconductor Corp.)


Version: 1.36


Speed: Up to 480 Mb/s


Manufacturer: Generic


Location ID: 0x02232000 / 21


Current Available (mA): 500


Current Required (mA): 0


Extra Operating Current (mA): 0





Hub Controller:





Product ID: 0x1100


Vendor ID: 0x0bda (Realtek Semiconductor Corp.)


Version: 1.01


Speed: Up to 480 Mb/s


Manufacturer: Realtek


Location ID: 0x02232300 / 47


Current Available (mA): 500


Current Required (mA): 100


Extra Operating Current (mA): 0





PCI:





pci8086,15f0:





Type: USB eXtensible Host Controller


Driver Installed: Yes


Tunnel Compatible: Yes


Pause Compatible: No


MSI: Yes


Bus: PCI


Slot: Thunderbolt@3,0,0


Vendor ID: 0x8086


Device ID: 0x15f0


Subsystem Vendor ID: 0x8086


Subsystem ID: 0x0000


Revision ID: 0x0006


Link Width: x4


Link Speed: 2.5 GT/s

 

[joevt]

full copy&paste:

You can try to fix the triple line spacing by using a text editor and replacing \n\n\n with \n

system_profiler SPUSBDataType SPPCIDataType
USB:

    USB 3.1 Bus:

      Host Controller Driver: AppleUSBXHCITR
      PCI Device ID: 0x15f0 
      PCI Revision ID: 0x0006 
      PCI Vendor ID: 0x8086 

        Dell dock:

          Product ID: 0x0487
          Vendor ID: 0x0bda  (Realtek Semiconductor Corp.)
          Speed: Up to 10 Gb/s
          Location ID: 0x02400000 / 3

            USB 10/100/1000 LAN:

              Product ID: 0x8153
              Vendor ID: 0x0bda  (Realtek Semiconductor Corp.)
              Serial Number: 111000001
              Speed: Up to 5 Gb/s
              Location ID: 0x02440000 / 50

            Dell dock:

              Product ID: 0x0413
              Vendor ID: 0x0bda  (Realtek Semiconductor Corp.)
              Speed: Up to 5 Gb/s
              Manufacturer: Dell Inc.
              Location ID: 0x02430000 / 32

                2-Port USB 3.1 Hub:

                  Product ID: 0x0409
                  Vendor ID: 0x0bda  (Realtek Semiconductor Corp.)
                  Speed: Up to 5 Gb/s
                  Location ID: 0x02432000 / 22

                    USB 3.0 Device:

                      Product ID: 0x0578
                      Vendor ID: 0x152d  (JMicron Technology Corp.)
                      Serial Number: 000000004BA8
                      Speed: Up to 5 Gb/s
                      Manufacturer: USB 3.0 Device
                      Location ID: 0x02432100 / 48

                      Media:
                        D HTS541010A9E66:
                          Capacity: 1 TB (1 000 204 886 016 bytes)

                JetDrive:

                  Product ID: 0x07d1
                  Vendor ID: 0x174c  (ASMedia Technology Inc.)
                  Speed: Up to 5 Gb/s
                  Manufacturer: Transcend
                  Location ID: 0x02431000 / 24
                  Media:
                    Transcend:
                      Capacity: 121,33 GB (121 332 826 112 bytes)

        AXAGON USB M.2 NVMe box:

          Product ID: 0x0562
          Vendor ID: 0x152d  (JMicron Technology Corp.)
          Speed: Up to 10 Gb/s
          Location ID: 0x02300000 / 18
          Media:
            SSD 980 500G:
              Capacity: 500,11 GB (500 107 862 016 bytes)

        Dell dock:

          Product ID: 0x5487
          Vendor ID: 0x0bda  (Realtek Semiconductor Corp.)
          Speed: Up to 480 Mb/s
          Manufacturer: Dell Inc.
          Location ID: 0x02200000 / 25

            Dell dock:

              Product ID: 0xb06e
              Vendor ID: 0x413c  (Dell Inc.)
              Speed: Up to 480 Mb/s
              Location ID: 0x02250000 / 2

            Dell dock:

              Product ID: 0x5413
              Vendor ID: 0x0bda  (Realtek Semiconductor Corp.)
              Speed: Up to 480 Mb/s
              Manufacturer: Dell Inc.
              Location ID: 0x02230000 / 26

                Dell dock:

                  Product ID: 0xb06f
                  Vendor ID: 0x413c  (Dell Inc.)
                  Speed: Up to 480 Mb/s
                  Location ID: 0x02235000 / 37

                USB Audio:

                  Product ID: 0x402e
                  Vendor ID: 0x0bda  (Realtek Semiconductor Corp.)
                  Serial Number: 200901010001
                  Speed: Up to 480 Mb/s
                  Manufacturer: Generic
                  Location ID: 0x02234000 / 34

                Dell Universal Receiver:

                  Product ID: 0x2514
                  Vendor ID: 0x413c  (Dell Inc.)
                  Speed: Up to 12 Mb/s
                  Location ID: 0x02233000 / 6

                3-Port USB 2.1 Hub:

                  Product ID: 0x5409
                  Vendor ID: 0x0bda  (Realtek Semiconductor Corp.)
                  Speed: Up to 480 Mb/s
                  Manufacturer: Generic
                  Location ID: 0x02232000 / 21

                    Hub Controller:

                      Product ID: 0x1100
                      Vendor ID: 0x0bda  (Realtek Semiconductor Corp.)
                      Speed: Up to 480 Mb/s
                      Location ID: 0x02232300 / 47

PCI:

    pci8086,15f0:

      Type: USB eXtensible Host Controller
      Driver Installed: Yes
      Tunnel Compatible: Yes
      Pause Compatible: No
      MSI: Yes
      Bus: PCI
      Slot: Thunderbolt@3,0,0
      Vendor ID: 0x8086
      Device ID: 0x15f0
      Subsystem Vendor ID: 0x8086
      Subsystem ID: 0x0000
      Revision ID: 0x0006
      Link Width: x4
      Link Speed: 2.5 GT/s

The PCI info shows only the one USB controller that is part of the Intel Thunderbolt controller of the dock. This USB controller is the USB 3.1 bus shown in the USB info.
The Dell dock at the top level is a USB 10 Gbps hub. Connected to that hub is a 5 Gbps GbE USB adapter and 5 Gbps hub. Connected to the 5 Gbps hub is a JetDrive 120 GB enclosure and a JMicron 1 TB enclosure, both at 5 Gb/s.
Every USB 3.x Hub has a corresponding USB 2.0 hub. That's where the dock's audio is located.

The AXAGON 500 GB enclosure appears to be connected to the downstream Thunderbolt port of the Dell Thunderbolt Dock. It should get full 10 Gbps speed in that case (its speed is not reduced by having to go through hubs). Maybe try the sequential read test from AmorphousDiskMark.app? It may show higher numbers than Blackmagic Disk Speed Test.