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SpecFoto

macrumors regular
Original poster
Oct 23, 2013
134
61
SoCal Desert
Sorry for the long post but lots to go over here about using external SSD’s for startup drives and RAID with both Intel and M1 Macs.

Brief history. I do a lot of photography and have been using RAID setups for my data storage since 2012 when I got my 2012 Mac Pro that had 4 internal Sata drive slots inside. Put 4TB drives in each and had a built in 8TB RAID with a 8TB internal RAID backup, plus had an external RAID box for a 2nd backup. In 2015 I put a internal Sata SSD on a PCI-e card and used it for the startup drive. Kept this until 2019 when I switched to a 27” iMac with a 512GB internal SSD and bought external USB RAID boxes with multiple drives for storage and backup. My entire home folder was installed on the RAID boxes, the 512GB SSD held only the system files and my Lightroom catalog and preview files.

So this summer the wife and I were going to Thailand for couple of months and I was worried about going without having a copy of ALL my files with me, from my now, 12TB RAID. I did buy a new 14” MBP M1 Mac Pro for the trip but in the time I had to get it, I could only find the 1TB internal SSD version in stock. So I bought an Acacis TB3 enclosure and put a Samsung 2TB 980 Pro NVME drive in it, total cost about $360, and it’s R/W speeds are in the 2,7000-2,850 MB/s range, very fast, a tiny bit faster than the internal iMac SSD. I used my iMac to install Monterey 12.4 on it and tested this to boot up my iMac and it worked fine, but it ran a bit hot, so I put an external finned heatsink on the enclosure, see photo.

My solution for carrying all my data was to get 3 SanDisk Extreme V2 4TB SSD’s, with R/W transfer rates at (theoretical) 1,050MB/s. I put about 11.5TB total of data files on these and was good to go and used this setup to work on my LR catalogs. But during the trip the Macs M1 1TB internal SSD was limiting, as I initially put too much of my Home folder stuff on it. Lightroom runs a LOT faster if you put the catalog, previews and cache files on the same SSD with the system, and these amount to about 320GB (with the 7 TB of actual photos on the external SSD drives). So I tried to use the Acacis drive with the iMac OS as a startup drive, but it would not boot up it kept saying to reinstall the system. I reinstalled the OS using the MBP M1 and it did start up and put my LR catalog files on it, and used it for my startup drive. All was great and LR worked really fast on the MBP M1, just instantaneous for most processes. This is point #1, yes you can run a M1 Mac off an external SSD, but you need the proper OS versions for M1 Macs (see point #3) to make it work.

Point #2 is concerning external SSD speeds and RAID. The SanDisk Extreme V2 4TB actually run pretty close to the rated speed, I was getting 900-950MB/s R/W via TB4 cables attached directly to the TB4 ports of the MBP M1. This is 3 times my HDD RAID setup at home. But I read about pairing up 2 of them and making a 8TB RAID setup and did so before leaving using Disk Utility. The R/W speeds just about doubled to 1,800-1,850 R/W speeds, but you need to have a separate cable and available TB port for each. Luckily the MBP M1 Pro has 3 TB4 ports so this worked just great, even with the Acacis enclosure as the startup drive. It is amazingly fast to copy huge folders at 6 times the normal HDD RAID setup speed. Minutes instead of hours. Anytime I travel the MBP M1 and 8TB RAID tiny setup will be with me for my photography.

When I got home from our trip I was excited to try the Acacis 2TB enclosure (now installed from my MBP) on my iMac, and this is the 3rd point. M1 Macs (Apple SOC) use a different type of file structure than Intel Macs. My iMac would not startup off the Acacis drive, even though both are the same version of OS and formatted as APFS, it wanted me to reinstall a new copy of Monterey. So last month I bought a Samsung T7 2TB drive (1,050MB/s rated) for only $170*, prices have plummeted over the summer on external SSD’s, and put the iMac system and LR files on it. All works just great. And No, the Samsung startup SSD will not startup the MBP M1 Mac either. You MUST have a system specific OS (Intel or SOC) for an external drive to work.

Really there are no drawbacks to working off an external SSD drive except for startup times on Intel Macs. With my MBP M1 Mac internal 1TB startup is 14 seconds, it only adds 2 seconds (16 total) to startup from the 2TB Acacias enclosure. However the iMac is not so fast, it takes 30 seconds to startup off the internal 512GB SSD but the Samsung 2TB takes and additional 30 seconds, no doubt because it is working at USB 3 speeds. However I did not notice any slowdown at all working with LR or other app and using the Samsung TB SSD as the startup drive. But remember now with the added space I have my LR catalog, preview and cache files with the OS on the external SSD.

Point # 4 is with the new SOC Macs, unless you want to run off an external SSD, you need to get enough storage on the internal SSD to begin with. For me about 1.5TB of space covers everything I want readily available including my LR catalog, preview and cache files, so in the future I will get a 2TB internal SSD. Apple is still charging exorbitant prices for larger SSD’s, just crazy prices, as I just bought this week a 2TB NVME Samsung T7 for $149! With Apple 2TB is $600 more than the 512GB base.

Final point is to use high quality cables, I bought 3 new TB4 cables that are a bit stiffer and thicker for about $22 each. Zero issues with these versus the mess I had initially with the supplied short SSD cables from SanDisk or other ones USB-C one I previously had.

* This was for the standard Samsung 2TB version with all metal case. The Shield version, which is water-resistant and has a rubber outer shell is usually $100 more put I got one this week for only $149 during a pre-Black Friday sale. WOW!



Top Left 2TB Samsung 980 Pro in Acacis enclosure with added heatsink. Middle standard Samsung 2TB T7. Right Samsung 2TB T7 Shield. Bottom 4TB SanDisk Extreme V2, total 12TB. The 2 on the left are a 8TB RAID setup.
tempImageOizCGM.png
 
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I used a 1tb Samsung T3 USB 3.0 SSD as the startup disk for my 2012 quad-core Mini for two or three years. Used Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro pretty heavily on that machine and never had any problems. I agree, about the only time I noticed a difference was the slower startup time.

This was with Catalina though, I was under the impression that Apple is making it more difficult with newer versions of MacOS. For example, Carbon Copy used to fully support creating bootable clones. Now they still offer the option but don't recommend or support it. And I had to boot into recovery mode on my t2-equipped 2018 Mini to enable external booting and found the process a little confusing. I believe the Apple Silicon Macs cannot be booted from an external disk if the (soldered) internal SSD fails, at least my 2018 Intel Mini doesn't have that restriction. :)
 
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Real interesting posts, and I can provide some (hopefully) valuable feedback.

I have 2 Macs: a 2020 M1 MacMIni with a 256 gig SSD, running Monterey, V12.6.1, and a 2021 M1 MacBook Air with a 252 gig SSD, running Monterey, V12.6. I currently have 4 external SSDs: 2 Samsung 850 Pro 512 gig models enclosed in Orico enclosures (with USB-A connectivity only), a Samsung T7 1TB external SSD (connectivity with either USB-A or USB-C), and a very recently purchased Samsung T7 1TB Shield External SSD (again having connectivity with either USB-A or USB-C).

SuperDuper! (SD, including the most recent version, V3.7) works flawlessly in backing up (like usual) both the System and Data Volumes for each Mac to the external 850 Pros (they have 3 partitions on each: two of them for the SD backup of each of my Macs, and the other that contains miscellaneous files).

Now for the first "quirk": I purchased the Samsung Shield recently because I read that to test Ventura with an external SSD, the entire device needed to have only 1 APFS container (also because the price was good, and I am planning on replacing the 850 Pros anyway). No matter how many times I tried, I could not do a clean installation of Ventura, V13.0.1, onto that Samsung T7 1TB shield device with it connected to my Mac Mini via USB-C. But on one of the forums here, a user mentioned that he had success doing just that with a USB-A connection. So, I tried that, and voila, it worked! That is, I was able to successfully install V13.0.1 of Ventura, and subsequently Setup Assistant ran and allowed me to migrate all my Apps, Settings, etc. from the Mini (like normal). I then was able to reconnect the SSD via USB-C, and started up the Mini from it. Ran for 4 days last week, testing Ventura. (Am now back on my Monterey-based Mini).

Quirk #2: For that other Samsung T7 1TB External SSD, I had an empty partition called Miscellaneous (about 300 gig or so), so I erased it, and formatted it as AFPS. Tried to run SD to backup my Ventura-based system to that partition. Everything went well, according to SD, but when I tried to restart the Mini from that backup, got an error message:

"The version of the macOS on the selected disk needs to be reinstalled.
Use Recovery to reinstall macOS or select another startup disk."

I chose the second option (ie, selected another startup disk). Contacted Dave Nanian of Shirt Pocket Software about this, and he sent me a "newer" (test/beta) version of SD to try. But no go. Got the same error. I even tried it with that external SSD connected to one of the Mini's USB-A ports, but again, same thing. After sending Dave the logs, he attributed the issue to Apple's "ASR" routine, which from what I understand is supposed to replicate the System Volume. Both Dave and Mike Bombich (developer of Carbon Copy Cloner) have "complained" to Apple about this, and that it seems to be getting "tighter" with Ventura.

Not sure if the device I am using SD to backup to needs to contain only 1 "container". Right now, I really do not want to use one of the 850 Pro SSDs for that, so I am waiting to purchase another Samsung T7 External SSD (not sure if 500 gig would suffice). If there is good pricing that comes up, I'll purchase one, format it with only 1 APFS container, and try SD again.
 
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"The version of the macOS on the selected disk needs to be reinstalled.
Use Recovery to reinstall macOS or select another startup disk."
BTW I am using Monterey 12.61. That is the same message I got when I tried to start up the Acasis and 980 Pro 2TB, with the iMac OS system, on the M1 Pro and when later I tried the Acasis, with the M1 Pro system, on the iMac at home. I have used SuperDuper for many, many years and even though it was the latest version and said it would work with the latest OS, it failed and I got the same message. So I did the reinstall from the Mac with the same type of hardware. But I also wiped the 980 Pro completely clean and started that way. Maybe additional partitions has something to do with it, I could see that being confusing to the Mac having 2 types of partitions, so maybe best to wipe clean and reload everything later.

I want to try Ventura, but I am going to wait a while to see what happens. You are not the first to say that additional issues are now coming to light on Ventura with external SSD's.

Never hurts to have more storage. The Samsung 2TB SD Shield is only $149 at B&H or Amazon now, about $100 off. The standard 1TB T7 is $89, the 500GB is only $10 less at $79, so I would say go for the 1TB.
 
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BTW I am using Monterey 12.61. That is the same message I got when I tried to start up the Acasis and 980 Pro 2TB, with the iMac OS system, on the M1 Pro and when later I tried the Acasis, with the M1 Pro system, on the iMac at home. I have used SuperDuper for many, many years and even though the was the latest version and said it would work with the latest OS, it failed and I got the same message. So I did the reinstall from the Mac with the same type of hardware. But I also wiped the 980 Pro completely clean and started that way. Maybe additional partitions has something to do with it, I could see that being confusing to the Mac having 2 types of partitions, so maybe best to wipe clean and reload everything later.

I want to try Ventura, but I am going to wait a while to see what happens. You are not the first to say that additional issues are now coming to light on Ventura with external SSD's.

Never hurts to have more storage. The Samsung 2TB SD Shield is only $149 at B&H or Amazon now, about $100 off. The standard 1TB T7 is $89, the 500GB is only $10 less at $79, so I would say go for the 1TB.
Yeah, agree with your Samsung T7 1 TB versus 500GB statements. The T7 1TB Shield only cost me $98 (including tax) from Amazon.

Regarding SD, sure is perplexing! And even Dave Nanian of Shirt Pocket Software cannot provide definitive explanations! Regarding "hard" partitions like on my 850 Pro and T7 (non-Shield) SSDs, here is one statement Dave said about that:

"It's mostly that APFS is designed to be a single container with volumes inside that, without need for hard partitions. I can see how the boot ROM code might not bother traversing hard partitions when there usually wouldn't be any."

And:

"Again, though, this is not related to what SuperDuper does. It's what Apple's tool does. And it's what Apple's OS does. And it's what Apple's BIOS does.

Why would it behave differently on different hardware? I guess, in the end, because it's different hardware, you know? It's not open source code, though, so I can't review it and know what they did..."

Again, at least for the 850 Pros, hard partitions, and V3.7 of SD with Monterey, things work fine. But for the other hard partition on the T7, for Ventura, SD kind of had "issues", but more like Apple.

And then there is the USB-A versus USB-C mystery, at least with Ventura. I have not permanently moved to Ventura yet, and I suspect it will take a while. As it is, V13.1 is scheduled to come out December 12th, at the earliest. Something like V13.3 (when most likely Ventura will be stable enough, and free with just about all "serious" issues) is, most likely, 2 to 3 months down the road. But I'm still glad I decided to do some testing with V13.0.1.
 
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Have never tried Super Duper, have always used Carbon Copy. Up through Catalina it was very straightforward to clone the internal disk to an external, then boot from the external. Evidently that all changed with Big Sur however. Bombich has an explanation on their site and concludes "we do not support nor recommend making bootable copies of the system as part of a backup strategy".

 
Have never tried Super Duper, have always used Carbon Copy. Up through Catalina it was very straightforward to clone the internal disk to an external, then boot from the external. Evidently that all changed with Big Sur however. Bombich has an explanation on their site and concludes "we do not support nor recommend making bootable copies of the system as part of a backup strategy".

Understand. Everything was fine with SuperDuper!, but there were some "initial" issues with it and Monterey, but they got resolved. But with Ventura, things are "problematic".

From what I gather, Apple's "asr" routine (Apple software restore), which both SuperDuper! and Carbon Copy Cloner rely on, seems to be the culprit, in terms of replicating the System Volume. The Data Volume is copied fine. As it is, with the error message I got after SD ran, according to Dave Nanian, if I proceeded to re-install Ventura onto the copied, but "inoperative", System Volume, it would then work, ie, boot up from the copy/clone made by SuperDuper!. Seems rather clumsy to me, but maybe that is what we got to live with.
 
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