Facing Aging Parents

[Huntn]

@Scepticalscribe has spoken extensively about watching her parents decline in old age and pass away. It is a sad part of existence as a human being. If I can find a link to that thread, I’ll post it.

I, 66 years old, and my two brothers are currently facing this with our Father. He is 91, independently living alone and last weekend, one of my brothers and I flew into Florida to visit and discuss his next move, into a senior or an assisted living facility. He has indicated, it is time for such a move. He lives near Winterhaven, Florida. We flew into Tampa, 50 miles away.

On Monday while sitting at the airport to go home, I got a call from my brother that Dad is having another episode where he can’t catch his breath and was going to the hospital. Of note, this was the first we had heard of it, that weekend. I called him and told him not to drive, but to call 911 which he did. I rented a car and drove back from the airport and spent another 3 days there.

He is back home, having being diagnosed with either emphysema or COPD, with meds and an O2 bottle. I initially suspected it could be heart related, but his heart is good. So the emphasis is now getting him into a senior center or assisted living. What makes this difficult was his decision to move 1000 miles away 20 years ago.

I got home last night, and suspect I’ll be going back in the near future, and that this is just the beginning of the end. My Grandmother on his side lived to 96, and a Great Uncle to 102. All is well though, this is just part of being alive.

What have your experiences been good and bad addressing this situation, an elderly parent’s living arrangements? What to look out for or avoid?

Our Mother spent her final days living with our middle brother. Fortunately our Father has enough money in the bank to afford a senior home, and none of the sons really wants to take him in because he can be a real pill at times. I also think that living in a facility, if you can afford it, has social advantages, being with a group of people at your stage of life.

We are looking at a place called Presbyterian Homes of Florida which charge $34-80k up front for a studio apartment or a two bedroom apartment, and $1670 a month for routine services, vs an assisted living facility that charges $2600 a month, but that is hearsay from my Father. I’m in the process of gathering information.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

@Scepticalscribe has spoken extensively about watching her parents decline in old age and pass away. It is a sad part of existence as a human being. If I can find a link to that thread, I’ll post it.

I, 66 years old, and my two brothers are currently facing this with our Father. He is 91, independently living alone and last weekend, one of my brothers and I flew into Florida to visit and discuss his next move, into a senior or an assisted living facility. He has indicated, it is time for such a move. He lives near Winterhaven, Florida. We flew into Tampa, 50 miles away.

On Monday while sitting at the airport to go home, I got a call from my brother that Dad is having another episode where he can’t catch his breath and was going to the hospital. Of note, this was the first we had heard of it, that weekend. I called him and told him not to drive, but to call 911 which he did. I rented a car and drove back from the airport and spent another 3 days there.

He is back home, having being diagnosed with either emphysema or COPD, with meds and an O2 bottle. I initially suspected it could be heart related, but his heart is good. So the emphasis is now getting him into a senior center or assisted living. What makes this difficult was his decision to move 1000 miles away 20 years ago.

I got home last night, and suspect I’ll be going back in the near future, and that this is just the beginning of the end. My Grandmother on his side lived to 96, and a Great Uncle to 102. All is well though, this is just part of being alive.

What have your experiences been good and bad addressing this situation, an elderly parent’s living arrangements? What to look out for or avoid?

Our Mother spent her final days living with our middle brother. Fortunately our Father has enough money in the bank to afford a senior home, and none of the sons really wants to take him in because he can be a real pill at times. I also think that living in a facility, if you can afford it, has social advantages, being with a group of people at your stage of life.

We are looking at a place called Presbyterian Homes of Florida which charge $34-80k up front for a studio apartment or a two bedroom apartment, and $1670 a month for routine services, vs an assisted living facility that charges $2600 a month, but that is hearsay from my Father. I’m in the process of gathering information.

Interesting post, and my sympathies on your situation.

To be quite honest, your sentence "I also think that living in a facility, if you can afford it, has social advantages, being with a group of people at your stage of life" strikes me, as that is certainly something that neither of my parents would ever have wanted.

When she was still mobile, my mother loathed even attending weekly sessions, or meetings, or gatherings, of people "at her stage of life" and, while I wanted to respect her wishes, I insisted that she do so, if only to give the carer and myself a break from having to tend to her needs all of the time.

But, I fully sympathised with her grumbles about how they "were full of old people" and she found that boring and tedious; all her life, she had gravitated to mixed age settings, and, until her dementia developed, she had a fierce and lively intelligence, valued her own space and privacy and loved her home.

We agreed never to put her in a home, because she would have hated it, and I believe that she would not have lasted more than a few weeks in one.

Besides, some people are more introverted and like their personal space and dislike being thrown into the company of others, while many other people are more extroverted, and gregarious and need company; however, I know that my parents, my brothers, and myself would all have hated the lack of privacy and autonomy of a care home.

In any case, we were most fortunate in that we had a live in Filipino carer for six years, which meant that we could care for my mother at home until the very end.

Re experiences good and bad:

I think trying to respect the wishes of the elder is enormously important, but so, equally, is the right to some sort of integrity to living your own life, so that their needs do not overwhelm and take control of yours.

Some older people can be very selfish (the desire to live being strong) and demanding; in a situation where they live with you, - or where you are actively involved in their care - compromise is a necessity.

On both sides, but - above all - on the elder's; in such situations, they cannot expect to be able to get their own way on everything all of the time, which can be a challenge for comfortably off people who have been used to running their lives (and worlds) for what must have seemed like forever.

I hope that these thoughts are of some help.

Good luck with it.

 

[Apple fanboy]

@Scepticalscribe has spoken extensively about watching her parents decline in old age and pass away. It is a sad part of existence as a human being. If I can find a link to that thread, I’ll post it.

I, 66 years old, and my two brothers are currently facing this with our Father. He is 91, independently living alone and last weekend, one of my brothers and I flew into Florida to visit and discuss his next move, into a senior or an assisted living facility. He has indicated, it is time for such a move. He lives near Winterhaven, Florida. We flew into Tampa, 50 miles away.

On Monday while sitting at the airport to go home, I got a call from my brother that Dad is having another episode where he can’t catch his breath and was going to the hospital. Of note, this was the first we had heard of it, that weekend. I called him and told him not to drive, but to call 911 which he did. I rented a car and drove back from the airport and spent another 3 days there.

He is back home, having being diagnosed with either emphysema or COPD, with meds and an O2 bottle. I initially suspected it could be heart related, but his heart is good. So the emphasis is now getting him into a senior center or assisted living. What makes this difficult was his decision to move 1000 miles away 20 years ago.

I got home last night, and suspect I’ll be going back in the near future, and that this is just the beginning of the end. My Grandmother on his side lived to 96, and a Great Uncle to 102. All is well though, this is just part of being alive.

What have your experiences been good and bad addressing this situation, an elderly parent’s living arrangements? What to look out for or avoid?

Our Mother spent her final days living with our middle brother. Fortunately our Father has enough money in the bank to afford a senior home, and none of the sons really wants to take him in because he can be a real pill at times. I also think that living in a facility, if you can afford it, has social advantages, being with a group of people at your stage of life.

We are looking at a place called Presbyterian Homes of Florida which charge $34-80k up front for a studio apartment or a two bedroom apartment, and $1670 a month for routine services, vs an assisted living facility that charges $2600 a month, but that is hearsay from my Father. I’m in the process of gathering information.

First of all my sympathies for your situation I can imagine it’s very difficult.

My parents are in their 70’s. Both live in the area where they were born whereas I live at the other end of the country.
My Mother has not had good health for the last decade or so, but her husband is 10 years younger and her career.
But they have decided to move to a new part of the country (no nearer). I’m thinking this is not going to be good as the support network they have will be gone.

My Father is in better health and still working. Although he is trying to stop (self employed, complicated!).

But I do fear what will happen when they get old and are less able to look after themselves.

I probably worry more about what will happen to us when we get old though. Neither my wife or I will ever move into assisted or care homes. We would both hate that and won’t do it.
But nobody will be around to look after us.

 

[Huntn]

@Scepticalscribe and @Apple fanboy, thanks both of you for the replies and the sympathies. I'd say all in all, we are doing well. It's just the realization that this is reality. From a philosophical standpoint, it can be depressing, when you are reminded that you are on the same road, that this will be your individual battle in the not so far future. Not that I am being selfish, or trying to be. Despite that, we have a good attitude and spirits regarding the situation. It is what it is.

Here is the key, just how independent are you and how social are you? My Dad who has lived alone for the last 30 years, is not that social. He is one of those tell it like it is people, lacking a certain social sensitivity. He also is the vice President of the local seniors group, yet he is lonely or at least complains of going stir crazy at times. I don't think there are many women who would put up with him, and he is rather slovenly in his living habits.

And then there is the point, where you can no longer go solo, even if you want to. You either have a child who is willing to take you into their home, or it is assisted living.

Of the experience I've had with parents who need assistance, my Mom was not particularly happy living with my middle brother before she passed away. I think a lot of that boils down to how much attention the elderly are given.

And my wife's parents moved to a retirement community, a 3 story building with 1 and 2 bedroom apartments full of old folks and they were very happy. I think some of that has to do with how social you are. This was a very pleasant facility. They had a 2 bedroom apartment with a kitchen and paid a pretty penny for it (IMO) $5k a month, and this was not even assisted living.

And it was nothing like a nursing home, where you see a room just big enough for 2 beds and old folks parked in the hallway, staring at the walls. My Mom was in one of those for a brief time and it was horrid at $3k per month.

My wife's Dad has passed away, and her Mom decided to go live with my wife's younger sister, and she is not so happy there. It's reported that they lead their lives and she feels like a third wheel. Imo, she was happier at the senior facility. They had a dining room and it was kind of like going back to high school, or that is how it seemed to me.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

@Huntn, I take the liberty of quoting from your post:"You either have a child who is willing to take you into their home, or it is assisted living."

Actually, there is a third option, and that is getting in some sort of live in (or almost live in) carer.

My father's sister is 94, going on 95, - she was working and drawing a salary until she was in her early eighties - a fiercely independent woman, and even now completely mentally sharp - and she still lives in her own home.

Two of her sons live in the same commuter town, (it used to be a village, but is now commuter land), but she doesn't live with them, nor they (the each have their own families, and one has a daughter who is autistic) with her; they do look in often, especially at the week-end, when they take responsibility for her care.

But, she has a Filipina carer live with her, or come into her, for five days a week; not even her closest friends would describe her as 'easy', and she prizes her independence. And privacy.

I agree with you @Huntn, about the importance of how social (introverted/extraverted) someone is, and how independent they chose to be.

However, to that I would add to that both privacy, and territoriality; some people just like - actually, prize - their personal space (I'm one of them).

As for third wheels, really one needs flexibility and the ability to compromise. The elder cannot expect to be the centre of attention and needs to be able to respect the family of their children, rather than attempting to control or undermine it; the respect must cut both ways.

Situations which I have known well - that worked for all parties concerned - included an element of private personal space - almost a flat, or a suite or rooms of their own, or, at least, a room of their own, - for the elder - their own space - within the home, where they can come and go as they please, but can join the family when requested and thereby feel included in some family matters.

It can be hard (for an elder) to accept that the old family dynamics and power structures have changed, and the situations that worked best were those where respect - and space - on both sides were accorded.
[doublepost=1557430837][/doublepost]

First of all my sympathies for your situation I can imagine it’s very difficult.

My parents are in their 70’s. Both live in the area where they were born whereas I live at the other end of the country.
My Mother has not had good health for the last decade or so, but her husband is 10 years younger and her career.
But they have decided to move to a new part of the country (no nearer). I’m thinking this is not going to be good as the support network they have will be gone.

My Father is in better health and still working. Although he is trying to stop (self employed, complicated!).

But I do fear what will happen when they get old and are less able to look after themselves.

I probably worry more about what will happen to us when we get old though. Neither my wife or I will ever move into assisted or care homes. We would both hate that and won’t do it.
But nobody will be around to look after us.

But @Apple fanboy, even if Miss AFB was still in the picture, I doubt that she would ever have been in a position to care for you; for some on the spectrum, empathy (and executive planning) are skills and characteristics that they are incapable of mastering.

 

[Apple fanboy]

There is a third option, and that is getting in some sort of live in (or almost live in) carer.

My father's sister is 94, going on 95, - she was working and drawing a salary until she was in her early eighties - a fiercely independent woman - and she still lives in her own home.

Two of her sons live in the same commuter town, (it used to be a village, but is now commuter land), but she doesn't live with them, nor they (the each have their own families, and one has a daughter who is autistic) with her; they do look in often, especially at the week-end,

But, she has a Filipina carer live with her, or come into her, for five days a week; not even her closest friends would describe her as 'easy', and she prizes her independence. And privacy.

I agree with you @Huntn, about the importance of how social (introverted/extraverted) someone is, and how independent they chose to be.

However, to that I would add to that both privacy, and territoriality; some people just like - actually, prize - their personal space (I'm one of them).

As for third wheels, really one needs flexibility and the ability to compromise. The elder cannot expect to be the centre of attention and needs to be able to respect the family of their children, rather than attempting to control or undermine it; the respect must cut both ways.

Situations which I have known world well included an element of private personal space - almost a flat, or a suite or rooms of their own, or, at least, a room of their own, - for the elder - their own space - within the home, where they can come and go as they please, but can join the family when requested and thereby feel included in some family matters.

It can be hard (for an elder) to accept that the old family dynamics and power structures have changed, and the situations that worked best were those where respect - and space - on both sides were accorded.
[doublepost=1557430837][/doublepost]

But @Apple fanboy, even if Miss AFB was still in the picture, I doubt that she would ever have been in a position to care for you; for some on the spectrum, empathy (and executive planning) are skills and characteristics that they are incapable of mastering.

Agreed. But at least it would have been someone!

I think we’ll be one of those stories you read about. Found dead in their home been their for months.

We live very independently from the outside world. Especially Mrs AFB. I dread to think what would happen to her in my absence.
[doublepost=1557432524][/doublepost]

@Scepticalscribe and @Apple fanboy, thanks both of you for the replies and the sympathies. I'd say all in all, we are doing well. It's just the realization that this is reality. From a philosophical standpoint, it can be depressing, when you are reminded that you are on the same road, that this will be your individual battle in the not so far future. Not that I am being selfish, or trying to be. Despite that, we have a good attitude and spirits regarding the situation. It is what it is.

Here is the key, just how independent are you and how social are you? My Dad who has lived alone for the last 30 years, is not that social. He is one of those tell it like it is people, lacking a certain social sensitivity. He also is the vice President of the local seniors group, yet he is lonely or at least complains of going stir crazy at times. I don't think there are many women who would put up with him, and he is rather slovenly in his living habits.

And then there is the point, where you can no longer go solo, even if you want to. You either have a child who is willing to take you into their home, or it is assisted living.

Of the experience I've had with parents who need assistance, my Mom was not particularly happy living with my middle brother before she passed away. I think a lot of that boils down to how much attention the elderly are given.

And my wife's parents moved to a retirement community, a 3 story building with 1 and 2 bedroom apartments full of old folks and they were very happy. I think some of that has to do with how social you are. This was a very pleasant facility. They had a 2 bedroom apartment with a kitchen and paid a pretty penny for it (IMO) $5k a month, and this was not even assisted living.

And it was nothing like a nursing home, where you see a room just big enough for 2 beds and old folks parked in the hallway, staring at the walls. My Mom was in one of those for a brief time and it was horrid at $3k per month.

My wife's Dad has passed away, and her Mom decided to go live with my wife's younger sister, and she is not so happy there. It's reported that they lead their lives and she feels like a third wheel. Imo, she was happier at the senior facility. They had a dining room and it was kind of like going back to high school, or that is how it seemed to me.

My wife’s mother passed away in her 50’s. her dad Hasn’t been around for decades.

She ended up in a hospice but was only there a day before she passed. Before that we were there every weekend for months.

 

[Not-Sure]

Grandparents are not animals you send to a shelter. If they are going to pass away bring them home. I have no clue why Americans are so shallow. Grandparents are very useful to educate grandchildren. My mom lives with my sister, she is either with her or with me. My Dad passed away in our house with family, I was sleeping next room when he took his last breath and I was the one who removed the needles and bandaids from his body still warm.

He is your Dad, bring him home, stop counting the pennies you cheapo.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Grandparents are not animals you send to a shelter. If they are going to pass away bring them home. I have no clue why Americans are so shallow. Grandparents are very useful to educate grandchildren. My mom lives with my sister, she is either with her or with me. My Dad passed away in our house with family, I was sleeping next room when he took his last breath and I was the one who removed the needles and bandaids from his body still warm.

He is your Dad, bring him home, stop counting the pennies you cheapo.

First of all sorry to hear about your Dad. That must have been tough.

But family's are very complicated and no two families are the same.
My family situation is quite complicated.
Not every parent would wish to live with their children.

I think the important thing is to let the person make their own choices as much as is possible. If they get to a point when they are no longer able like @Scepticalscribe's Mother then things are a bit different. But when people live in different state's and they have a life there, it is a difficult situation for all.

 

[bunnspecial]

I hopefully am still a long way away from looking at anything like that, but a few years ago watched my parents deal with it with their parents-my dad's dad began a slow decline that lasted probably from the time he was 90 to when he passed a few months short of 94, while my mom's mother declined fairly rapidly(fully independent to fully dependent) over the span of about 9 months. They passed within a month of each other in 2014.

They were very different people, and as such they were cared for very differently toward the end of their life.

My grandmother was diagnosed with ALS in January of '14, although we'd started noticing the symptoms(slurred speech mostly) a few months prior. She was fiercely independent all of her life, but as things progressed she allowed my mom, aunt, and uncle all to care for her as she declined. My mom lived a half hour away, while my aunt had-a few years prior-moved a block away and my uncle lived in the house with her. Fortunately, she voluntarily gave up driving when she started losing muscle coordination. She lost the ability to speak, but communicated with us by writing on a marker board up until nearly the end. In any case, she died at home in her own bedroom-the place where my grandfather had passed almost exactly(to the day) 16 years before. My aunt, uncle, and mom took turns taking care of her-my mom was retired at the time, although my aunt and uncle were both still working(my uncle night shift at the time) so managed to work out a schedule.

As I mentioned, my dad's dad was a bit of a different story. He lived a few hundred miles away in the mountains of North Carolina. For several years prior to him really declining, he'd started wintering in Kentucky at a retirement home(not assisted living-just a retirement community) close to my parents, and had developed a good network of friends and so forth there. After one winter of him not coming at all, and my dad having to make emergency trips sometimes in the middle of the night when he ended up in the hospital, he finally decided to move here permanently.

He really enjoyed living in the retirement home. He didn't so much do their planned social activities, but lived for the meal times there. He also always had a few lady friends that he would enjoy spending time with. The place where he lived was nice, and truth be told was not terribly expensive(I think around $1500/month IIRC) when you considered that it included 3 meals a day. There were still battles along the way-probably the biggest was congestive heart failure and COPD rendering it unsafe for him to drive, and my mom(who he listened to better than my dad) having to take the keys from him. As prostate cancer took over his brain, he also got a bit free with the checkbook and my dad had to eventually take control of that to make sure that he had enough money to pay for everything that needed to get taken care of(that's a complicated story, but he was easily blowing through $10-15K a month in crazy spending).

Also, he reached a point where he was bedridden and needed round-the-clock care. My dad and my uncle were the only ones who lived close, and my uncle at the time was recovering from a stroke so physically was unable to help. My dad couldn't do it all himself, which meant hiring care(the facility where he lived didn't provide it). That amounted to a few thousand dollars a month, and for the last few weeks of his life he was in a full-blown nursing home. No one wanted that, but it really was the only option-not just from a standpoint of cost but also because of the level of care he needed. fortunately my grandfather wasn't at himself enough to really know what was going on(my dad spent a good part of nearly every day with him, although also didn't want to run off and leave my mom while she was both still grieving over losing her mother a few weeks prior and also working on cleaning out her house/settling the estate/everything else that happens).

I'll also say that in our situation, my grandfather coming to live with my parents was never really an option. When he was still lucid, he could be quite a bear to deal with and would not have been happy under any circumstance there. In addition, he still enjoyed the level of independence that he had with some illusion of his own home, and not with living with living in my parents house. He came and stayed for a few days after a couple of hospitalizations, and after 2-3 days if my dad hadn't taken him back he probably would have found a way to get there himself-he was that unhappy. There again, by the time he was moved to a nursing home, he needed a level of care that my parents weren't capable of giving.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

First of all sorry to hear about your Dad. That must have been tough.

But family's are very complicated and no two families are the same.
My family situation is quite complicated.
Not every parent would wish to live with their children.

I think the important thing is to let the person make their own choices as much as is possible. If they get to a point when they are no longer able like @Scepticalscribe's Mother then things are a bit different. But when people live in different state's and they have a life there, it is a difficult situation for all.

Agree completely.

Grandparents are not animals you send to a shelter. If they are going to pass away bring them home. I have no clue why Americans are so shallow. Grandparents are very useful to educate grandchildren. My mom lives with my sister, she is either with her or with me. My Dad passed away in our house with family, I was sleeping next room when he took his last breath and I was the one who removed the needles and bandaids from his body still warm.

He is your Dad, bring him home, stop counting the pennies you cheapo.

As @Apple fanboy says, it is not always possible or easy, and not all family relationships allow for that especially if family ties have been irrevocably severed or have broken down.

While I agree with you to a considerable extent, it does depend on the actual relationships between the respective individuals.

Yes, they are your parents, but you can have fraught relationships with your parents, and with other family members.

I was fortunate in that I had excellent relationships with both parents as a child, and again, as an adult, from my mid twenties when we had become great friends.

However, having said that, the responsibilities of caring for them - especially my mother as her dementia became more pronounced and her caring needs more demanding - were exceptionally challenging.

We were lucky that we had a fantastic carer; we we lucky that we are middle class and thus had resources; we were lucky that we live in a country where some sort of state support exists in a national health system- we had state carers call to help with my mother's needs three times a day - and my mother's medical needs (medicines) and expenses and equipment were largely met by - that is, funded by and sometimes supplied by - the state.

And I was lucky that my mother was not a difficult or demanding person and that I had an excellent relationship with her.

But that is not to say that it was easy.

 

[Huntn]

Grandparents are not animals you send to a shelter. If they are going to pass away bring them home. I have no clue why Americans are so shallow. Grandparents are very useful to educate grandchildren. My mom lives with my sister, she is either with her or with me. My Dad passed away in our house with family, I was sleeping next room when he took his last breath and I was the one who removed the needles and bandaids from his body still warm.

He is your Dad, bring him home, stop counting the pennies you cheapo.

Whoever you directed this comment at, if at me, he wants no part of being taken home and fortunately he has enough finances to afford something else.

 

[kazmac]

I live with my elderly mom with eldest sister 3 towns away and middle sis up in Maine.

Mom fell on her back in early 90s and this has become more problematic over the last two years (Skeletal, stenosis, gloucoma and a busted knee in addition to the hip she broke last Summer). She also has mysterious breathing, weakness, etc. problems that I hope are linked to nutrient deficiencies we can finally address so we can maybe tend to her knee. My nearly dying last summer did not help things.

We tried home health care which sucked and a senior home is not happening.

Trying to deal with it mostly alone family-wise (Eldest sister has a slew of health issues now and middle sister in Maine is a freaking coward.). One of mom’s dearest friends has been particularly amazing, ditto mom’s best friend.

@Huntn you have my sympathies and big virtual hugs.

Big thanks to @Scepticalscribe and everyone here.

 

[Huntn]

I live with my elderly mom with eldest sister 3 towns away and middle sis up in Maine.

Mom fell on her back in early 90s and this has become more problematic over the last two years (Skeletal, stenosis, gloucoma and a busted knee in addition to the hip she broke last Summer). She also has mysterious breathing, weakness, etc. problems that I hope are linked to nutrient deficiencies we can finally address so we can maybe tend to her knee. My nearly dying last summer did not help things.

We tried home health care which sucked and a senior home is not happening.

Trying to deal with it mostly alone family-wise (Eldest sister has a slew of health issues now and middle sister in Maine is a freaking coward.). One of mom’s dearest friends has been particularly amazing, ditto mom’s best friend.

@Huntn you have my sympathies and big virtual hugs.

Big thanks to @Scepticalscribe and everyone here.

Thank you, I appreciate it and commiserate with all those who are experiencing this and will be facing it in their futures.

 

[scmill]

My sister's mother-in-law moved to a facility here a few years ago. She had been living in the same town as her daughter, but her daughter traveled on business much of the time. As her health declined, she moved here where she has two grandchildren (and great grandchildren from both), a son and daughter-in-law and me all within a mile of her. Her other son and my sister are about an hour away. She lives in the apartment complex of the facility with two bedrooms, two baths, living and dining room, kitchen and small sunporch. She seems to be happy living there since she is frequently out with family and has made friends with others in the community. Her health is declining, though, and it's questionable how much longer she will be able to continue in the Independent Living apartments and will have to move over to Assisted Living.

 

[bunnspecial]

Grandparents are not animals you send to a shelter. If they are going to pass away bring them home. I have no clue why Americans are so shallow. Grandparents are very useful to educate grandchildren. My mom lives with my sister, she is either with her or with me. My Dad passed away in our house with family, I was sleeping next room when he took his last breath and I was the one who removed the needles and bandaids from his body still warm.

He is your Dad, bring him home, stop counting the pennies you cheapo.

I think this entire response is a gross oversimplification of the entire situation, and you'll also note that people weighing in are coming from places other than America.

As said by others in this thread, both individual personalities and family dynamics are unique for every situation.

I mentioned my grandmother specifically, who died in the home where she had lived for 40 years and in the same room where my grandfather, to whom she'd been married nearly 50 years at the time of his death, had died several years prior.

My grandmother died at 85 years old, and had been a homemaker her entire life(even though she'd had some part time jobs over the years, that was secondary). She'd spent her entire life taking care of other people-her younger siblings, my mom and her siblings, my grandfather as a bad heart slowly killed him, and then other people like my uncle who lived with her just because she didn't know how to do anything else. It was a real change for her to finally let go and let my mom and others take care of her at the end of her life, but it was her wish to remain at home. They'd agreed early on that it would happen unless taking care of her went beyond home care.

Of my four grandparents, the only one who MIGHT have agreed to live with my parents toward the end of their life was my dad's mother, who died of lung cancer when I was 7. Even that would have been difficult for a couple of reasons-for one thing both my parents were working full time at the time, and it would have been a real hardship for one or both of them to have to quit their jobs. Aside from that, I don't think my mom would have tolerated her smoking in the house, and that would have been far too much of a battle to get around. Full time nursing care at her retirement home was the best option in that situation, and fortunately it was close enough that we visited often(my dad every day, the rest of us once or twice a week and then on the weekends).

Those are my specific situations, though. There are plenty of others where care at home just isn't feasible for a variety of reasons. My family has-fortunately-escaped alzheimer's, but it can be trying. At certain stages, living at home can frankly be dangerous for the person. I've known plenty of people who dealt with a spouse or parent who found themselves locked out of the house(even while everyone else was home) or in other situations that put the entire household in danger. I know one person who kept his mother at home, but was on the cusp of having to put her in a nursing home when she passed away of issues unrelated to alzheimer's.

So, in a round about way, I guess I'm saying to understand that what worked for you and your family might not work for everyone else. These situations are often extraordinarily difficult, and I can assure you that few people WANT to put their parent/grandparent/sibling into a nursing home.

In @Huntn 's case, it looks like the only way for him to personally care for his father would involve one of the two of them relocating 1000 miles. That's going to be traumatic for one or both of them any way you go about it.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

And then there is the fact that - very often - the entire weight, or most of it, of the 'emotional labour' of the burden of care, (that is, running, taking charge of, being responsible for, shouldering, ordering, organising the elder's life), tends to fall most on one particular family member, very frequently a daughter, especially if that daughter is unmarried, divorced, or otherwise somehow single, and thus deemed "available", or rather, not to have other compelling emotional commitments, when the time comes to shoulder the responsibility of caring for one or both of your parents.

Societal conditioning, and perceived gender roles can kick in with a surprising tenacity and savage intensity, and there is the expectation, sometimes, that women are somehow "better" at this, and wish to do it, or feel that they are obliged to play this role.

Or, a son who is single, and has a gentle personality can find that such expectations land on him.

One thing that can be infuriating - and can lead to stresses and strains in a family - is a sibling who is little involved in the challenges of the caring responsibilities may feel judgmental towards those that are intimately involved.

They can be involved - and play their role - or they can keep their opinions to themselves, or express them respectfully. To my mind, if they are not playing an active role in the caring process (or helping to fund it), then, they don't really get to have a major say in care matters, or how they are carried out, still less sit in judgment on those who are doing most of the care work.

My 94 year old aunt has a daughter, but they don't get on, and never did, my aunt is one of those women who rarely finds fault with men, but invariably finds fault with women - they are judged to different (and much more demanding and difficult) standards.

Thus, my cousin - even though she is divorced, and has raised her own children - has made it clear that she has no intention of returning to the home where she grew up (and which she left over 40 years ago) to take responsibility for the care of her mother.

She will take over the responsibility of the week-end care at times, moving back home for a few days, to give her siblings a break, says she is glad to do that, but that it would never work for her to live with a person who finds fault with everything she does, thinks or says.

But, every family is different, with different life stories, and different histories and dynamics.

 

[Strider64]

My father who is 91 (going to be 92 this May 22) could not live independently if it wasn't for me. My father is hard of hearing and can be a real crab at times especially when he's not feeling good. My father won't say that he's not feeling good until 6 or 8 hours of suffering in discomfort. I'm not a morning person this led to yesterday getting into a big shouting match and my father can be somewhat of a bully when he's angry. However, we don't stay mad for long as our tempers are loud, but short. I usually feel bad at the end as over all these years (I'm 55) he and my late mother have helped me out a lot. Now, it's my time to help him out. This song sums it up for me -

I used to work with a lady who was from China and one day we started to talk about the differences in our cultures. The thing I remember the most is when she said "You know what I don't understand about your country? It's how your country treats the older generation with disrespect. If we did that in China we would be scolded by our community". I agree with her as we treat our older generation like dirt unless you have money, but even then it's just sweeping them aside in order for it not to be a hassle to you or your close family (wife & children). Life is short and it what we do with it that matters, not how much money we make.

 

[MacDann]

Interesting thread, and quite revealing in the sense that we all have very different situations and have to find ways to work within them.

Lost my Dad when he was only 58 to esophageal cancer - he was a pipe smoker all his life. Fiercely independent, even in the waning stages of his life he refused to be cared for at home and insisted on going into a managed care facility for his remaining days so as not to be a burden for the family. Granted, his employer paid for everything, which certainly had some bearing on his ability to make such a decision, but I have no doubt we would have done our best to honour his wishes regardless of the burden.

Mom went in her mid-80s. Another very independent soul, she lived in a retirement community of apartments, but had no interest in socializing with others. We had to remove her when she fell and was found a day later on the floor of her bedroom. She went into the hospital for treatment of dehydration and all of the issues related to the situation. He care providers wanted her to take physical therapy to improve her ability to move freely, but she refused. We gave her the choice - PT and then back to her apartment, or a full time care facility. She ended up in the care facility where she passed a few years later of old age.

Mom was especially tough, as I lived over 1200 miles away while my brother and sister were in the community where she was located. Even with their busy schedules they were able to see her several times a week. She didn't like talking on the phone, so calling regularly was difficult at best, so I started sending her post cards almost daily. She would occasionally send a reply, but this was just her. While I couldn't be actively engaged with her in person, I know she enjoyed getting the cards no matter how trivial the content.

When siblings or other family members are involved in these situation it's even more difficult, because as humans I think we all sort of "measure" the amount of effort and commitment the other members are providing (or not.) I think that in and of itself tends to wear on people and affect their relationships as well. My brother and sister we really great about this and totally understood it wasn't realistic to expect me to be more involved because of the logistics. They kept me in the loop on all activities and decisions made relative to Mom's care.

I have one more aging parent to deal with - my mother in law. My wife will no doubt be the lead caregiver, as her only sibling, her brother, lives some distance away. Mom in law could potentially live with us, but we're both career people and wouldn't be able to provide care on a full time basis, so I'm not sure how that could work. I get along with her fine, but I suspect the spouse would find her presence to be difficult over time. We've spoken about this amongst ourselves as well as with Mom in law, and she's perfectly fine with going to an assisted living facility if it's nearby and we can check on her regularly. She's a very social person, so being in with a group of her peers would suit her just fine.

Father in law passed a few years ago and was a real burden for Mom in law. He suffered from dementia for a number of years, making Mom in law's life really difficult and that of a full time caregiver, which she did without fail. She's definitely making up for lost time now that he's gone, but we're not sure how long this will last. Her health is good, but she's getting up there in years (mid-80s.)

I totally understand the cultural aspect of caring for aging relatives, however, much of that is a personal or familial issue. We'll do the very best we can to care for our aging relatives as we can given our resources and considering their wishes. It won't be easy, no matter what. We'll just have to deal with things as they present themselves.

As for the OP's question - you have to do your due diligence while taking into consideration what's best for your relative and your family as a whole. If what's best for an aging relative causes your family to suffer, you have to weigh what's more important, and the gravity of the effects on others.

As for the facility you mentioned, there are any number of both church and fraternal organization facilities that require the surrender of assets for more or less "perpetual care", so to speak. This is not uncommon and the way they assure funding for current and future participants. It's not a bad model and unless the family is somehow counting on the proceeds of the relative's estate why not do it? After all, it means the family member is using their assets to provide care for the remainder of their life, which makes sense to me.

 

[Huntn]

Interesting thread, and quite revealing in the sense that we all have very different situations and have to find ways to work within them.

Lost my Dad when he was only 58 to esophageal cancer - he was a pipe smoker all his life. Fiercely independent, even in the waning stages of his life he refused to be cared for at home and insisted on going into a managed care facility for his remaining days so as not to be a burden for the family. Granted, his employer paid for everything, which certainly had some bearing on his ability to make such a decision, but I have no doubt we would have done our best to honour his wishes regardless of the burden.

Mom went in her mid-80s. Another very independent soul, she lived in a retirement community of apartments, but had no interest in socializing with others. We had to remove her when she fell and was found a day later on the floor of her bedroom. She went into the hospital for treatment of dehydration and all of the issues related to the situation. He care providers wanted her to take physical therapy to improve her ability to move freely, but she refused. We gave her the choice - PT and then back to her apartment, or a full time care facility. She ended up in the care facility where she passed a few years later of old age.

Mom was especially tough, as I lived over 1200 miles away while my brother and sister were in the community where she was located. Even with their busy schedules they were able to see her several times a week. She didn't like talking on the phone, so calling regularly was difficult at best, so I started sending her post cards almost daily. She would occasionally send a reply, but this was just her. While I couldn't be actively engaged with her in person, I know she enjoyed getting the cards no matter how trivial the content.

When siblings or other family members are involved in these situation it's even more difficult, because as humans I think we all sort of "measure" the amount of effort and commitment the other members are providing (or not.) I think that in and of itself tends to wear on people and affect their relationships as well. My brother and sister we really great about this and totally understood it wasn't realistic to expect me to be more involved because of the logistics. They kept me in the loop on all activities and decisions made relative to Mom's care.

I have one more aging parent to deal with - my mother in law. My wife will no doubt be the lead caregiver, as her only sibling, her brother, lives some distance away. Mom in law could potentially live with us, but we're both career people and wouldn't be able to provide care on a full time basis, so I'm not sure how that could work. I get along with her fine, but I suspect the spouse would find her presence to be difficult over time. We've spoken about this amongst ourselves as well as with Mom in law, and she's perfectly fine with going to an assisted living facility if it's nearby and we can check on her regularly. She's a very social person, so being in with a group of her peers would suit her just fine.

Father in law passed a few years ago and was a real burden for Mom in law. He suffered from dementia for a number of years, making Mom in law's life really difficult and that of a full time caregiver, which she did without fail. She's definitely making up for lost time now that he's gone, but we're not sure how long this will last. Her health is good, but she's getting up there in years (mid-80s.)

I totally understand the cultural aspect of caring for aging relatives, however, much of that is a personal or familial issue. We'll do the very best we can to care for our aging relatives as we can given our resources and considering their wishes. It won't be easy, no matter what. We'll just have to deal with things as they present themselves.

As for the OP's question - you have to do your due diligence while taking into consideration what's best for your relative and your family as a whole. If what's best for an aging relative causes your family to suffer, you have to weigh what's more important, and the gravity of the effects on others.

As for the facility you mentioned, there are any number of both church and fraternal organization facilities that require the surrender of assets for more or less "perpetual care", so to speak. This is not uncommon and the way they assure funding for current and future participants. It's not a bad model and unless the family is somehow counting on the proceeds of the relative's estate why not do it? After all, it means the family member is using their assets to provide care for the remainder of their life, which makes sense to me.

Regarding your last paragraph, I wonder if you don’t have any assets to speak of, will they still take you in?

 

[bunnspecial]

Regarding your last paragraph, I wonder if you don’t have any assets to speak of, will they still take you in?

Kind of speaking out my rear end on this one, but generally yes.

I will add the caveat of not trying to "pull a fast one" so to speak by cleaning out the bank account and or selling the house/car to the kids for $1 before going in. If they have property that they sell for a "realistic" price and most of the money is still in their account when they go in, you're fine. Otherwise, that's been enough of a problem recently that they're going to go over everything like that with a fine toothed comb.

(I'm not a lawyer and this isn't legal advice-just what I've heard/been told by other people going through similar things).

 

[jeyf]

i might say every son daughter, if they are lucky, will see their parent(s) age and die. deal with it and be successful.

my mother died in the home she bought and paid for. To that ends my brother took care of her best he could.
-near the end the parent was somewhat lite on the logic and difficult frustrating
-usually the weaker sibling will step up to be the care giver
-after the parent(s) pass that care giver will need assistance getting back to living alone.

 

[Huntn]

i might say every son daughter, if they are lucky, will see their parent(s) age and die. deal with it and be successful.

my mother died in the home she bought and paid for. To that ends my brother took care of her best he could.
-near the end the parent was somewhat lite on the logic and difficult frustrating
-usually the weaker sibling will step up to be the care giver
-after the parent(s) pass that care giver will need assistance getting back to living alone.

My Grandmother moved in with my Aunt, and passed away at home under hospice care so with the right personalities, it is definitely possible.

 

[jeyf]

things to do anticipating a life change:
before you walk into the law offices of Lavern & Shirley read up on the stuff:

good place to start is a book from amazon $33.33; "Asset Protection for Real Estate Investors by Clint Coons"
-the author C. Coons is pushing his own gig but still he has good advice
-not as well written as expected, Coons doesn't have that engineering logic so difficult to follow in a few sections. Make notes. Only a starting point.

my parent pass away 2010 and the next year or so 2011/12 was VERY difficult.

i can not will not give legal advice. I do not represent Coons's book or any other opportunity.

 

[SDColorado]

My wife and I haven’t really been blessed with facing aging parents by and large. We are both in our late 40’s/early 50’s, but my wife lost her mother when she was mid 20’s due to cancer, her father to Alzheimer’s about 15 years ago. I lost my father to cancer almost 20 years ago, my mother has advanced Alzheimer’s.

Between the two of us we have one parent left and Alzheimer’s has stolen much of her memories and recognition of who she is and who we are to her. To boot she has had a re-occurrence of Breast cancer for which she had a lumpectomy 4 years ago.

Sitting in the waiting room now waiting for them to do a needle biopsy to see where we are with this re-occurrence.

I think that all you can do is do your best for them and do whatever it takes to keep them comfortable and make sure they lives out their years in the best way possible and with as much dignity as possible.

 

[MacDann]

Kind of speaking out my rear end on this one, but generally yes.

I will add the caveat of not trying to "pull a fast one" so to speak by cleaning out the bank account and or selling the house/car to the kids for $1 before going in. If they have property that they sell for a "realistic" price and most of the money is still in their account when they go in, you're fine. Otherwise, that's been enough of a problem recently that they're going to go over everything like that with a fine toothed comb.

(I'm not a lawyer and this isn't legal advice-just what I've heard/been told by other people going through similar things).

A very close friend of mine in high school was raised by her aunt and uncle, both of which were quite a bit older than her "real" parents, whom I never met nor knew much about. When we were seniors in high school her aunt and uncle were well into retirement age.

Uncle was a Mason who was jacked waaaaayy up the line, like 33rd degree or something like that. He had the giant Masonic bible on a stand in his study with all the symbols on the cover. The Masons ran a retirement facility in a town nearby where they pretty much took care of you until you kicked it, but in order to do so, you had to sign pretty much everything you owned over to them.

They did some legal shuffling before they entered the Masonic Home as it was known so that my friend got their house, a very middle class ranch home in a suburban area where we grew up. Something like she was vested in the ownership of the house for each year she was alive so that by the time she graduated high school the house was hers.

She got the house and they moved into the Masonic Home. I lost track of them and unfortunately my dear friend fell in with some pretty shady people after we graduated. I tracked her down about 15 years ago as a favor to a common friend while I had access to the resources necessary to do so and found that she sold the house shortly after she started up with these people, moved out of state and was murdered a year or two later, presumably by one of these people. A pretty sad ending to the story, but the point being that there are apparently ways you can engage with places like this and avoid having to give everything up...