Fan Noise and 2017 MBP's

[taxi_driver]

Has anyone with a 2017 MBP (nTB 13") put in enough mileage to determine how loud/annoying the fan noise is?

There's a lot of chatter on the interwebs on the subject, and I'm still torn between a nTB 13" and a 12" rMB mostly because of the fanless, quiet design despite performance/port compromises.

How overblown or realistic are these claims? Are the TB models cooler/quieter than the nTB? I have no need or use for the TB. Coming from a 2011 MBP which sounds like a jet taking off and makes my palms sweaty from heat.

Appreciate any input or advice moving forward.

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

It depends on your use. The nTB version is a lower wattage processor, so if you're pushing it harder it'll hit the turbo-boost and punch up the fans a lot more frequently to keep it cool. The TB model won't have that problem as it'll be able to sustain higher performance without the need to push it into turbo-boost.

If you're doing reasonably light tasks, the nTB model will be fine. If not however, the TB model will likely be better due to the better internals.

Either way I wouldn't base your purchase on whether or not it has a TB or not. The differences are pretty significant in every aspect of the computer, not just the keyboard.

 

[TheMadBrewer]

My 2013 MacBookAir was starting to act a bit flakey and slowing down. It mostly is a traveling computer for me, but it doesn't need to do things like run Xcode and various Adobe apps as things come up when I travel (which is sort of my hobby).

So I ordered a 13" Touch Bar MBP, with the i7, 16GB, 512GB SSD, thinking to future proof it as much as I can. It arrived today and it seems like the fan runs constantly and it gets warm to the touch with just Safari open (5 tabs). A couple of hours browsing for a few minutes then closing the lid while eating dinner, browsing a bit, then closing the lid and watching TV, etc. etc. and it was down to 66% battery. Screen at about 50%. I am hopping there are some tweaks I can do because this is going to be hard to take.

 

[taxi_driver]

It depends on your use. The nTB version is a lower wattage processor, so if you're pushing it harder it'll hit the turbo-boost and punch up the fans a lot more frequently to keep it cool. The TB model won't have that problem as it'll be able to sustain higher performance without the need to push it into turbo-boost.

If you're doing reasonably light tasks, the nTB model will be fine. If not however, the TB model will likely be better due to the better internals.

Either way I wouldn't base your purchase on whether or not it has a TB or not. The differences are pretty significant in every aspect of the computer, not just the keyboard.

I'm in the middle ground in terms of use - mostly light and occasional power intensive tasks like running windows 10 on VM (at least I think it is..)

It's not just the TB i could live without - the two extra TB3 ports are a little unnecessary for me sine I rarely plug in more than one device, charger included. This was another reason the rMB was even appealing.

My 2013 MacBookAir was starting to act a bit flakey and slowing down. It mostly is a traveling computer for me, but it doesn't need to do things like run Xcode and various Adobe apps as things come up when I travel (which is sort of my hobby).

So I ordered a 13" Touch Bar MBP, with the i7, 16GB, 512GB SSD, thinking to future proof it as much as I can. It arrived today and it seems like the fan runs constantly and it gets warm to the touch with just Safari open (5 tabs). A couple of hours browsing for a few minutes then closing the lid while eating dinner, browsing a bit, then closing the lid and watching TV, etc. etc. and it was down to 66% battery. Screen at about 50%. I am hopping there are some tweaks I can do because this is going to be hard to take.

is your new machine still indexing? heat/noise might subside in a day or two as I've read elsewhere.

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

I'm in the middle ground in terms of use - mostly light and occasional power intensive tasks like running windows 10 on VM (at least I think it is..)

It's not just the TB i could live without - the two extra TB3 ports are a little unnecessary for me sine I rarely plug in more than one device, charger included. This was another reason the rMB was even appealing.



is your new machine still indexing? heat/noise might subside in a day or two as I've read elsewhere.

In that case you should consider between the rMB and base MBP. If you think you could live with the rMB then it'll be a great purchase, the 2017 models are very capable. If you need a little more power at the expense of a little portability, the base 13" is great. If you think you might still need a little more power, then the TB 13" is the way to go. It all depends on your personal use, obviously the rMB won't suffer from noise but it may still get hot, whereas the TB 13" will be able to provide more power whilst staying cool/quiet.

Also yes new machines do quite a lot of indexing, and keep the WiFi up to download updates etc. So the first few days they are normally hot with minimal battery. Judge them after a week.

 

[andy9l]

The difference between the 12” and 13” isn’t ‘power’ as such - it’s sustained power.

I came from a rMB to a TB MBP - the difference is stark. And you’ve nailed the reason why with your original question. Any task that blasts the fan on a MBP is going to be (relatively) horrific on a rMB.

Unfortunately we live within the laws of physics. Once the CPU gets hot in the rMB, it’s a matter of time for throttling to kick in. It is the perfect machine for short bursts of power. It is the worst machine for sustained loads. When under heavy load - the CPU heats up, MacBook shell heats up, the surface it’s on heats up, and suddenly the entire heat dissipation system is completely hamstrung.

See this article for more information (under ‘Performance’): https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-12-2017-Laptop-Review.230656.0.html

As you can see in the article, that machine throttles very heavily and consistently under load. Exactly what the MBPs avoid. The 2017 MBPs never throttle unless both CPU and GPU are stressed at the same time (source).

But the vast majority of consumers never do this kind of work.

For me, using iMovie on a 4K screen absolutely crushed the rMB. The MBP handles it like a champ. But it absolutely blasts the two fans when exporting.

I imagine for the workload you’ve described you would probably get away with the rMB. But you’re definitely on the cusp of what it’s intended for.

 

[taxi_driver]

In that case you should consider between the rMB and base MBP. If you think you could live with the rMB then it'll be a great purchase, the 2017 models are very capable. If you need a little more power at the expense of a little portability, the base 13" is great. If you think you might still need a little more power, then the TB 13" is the way to go. It all depends on your personal use, obviously the rMB won't suffer from noise but it may still get hot, whereas the TB 13" will be able to provide more power whilst staying cool/quiet.

Also yes new machines do quite a lot of indexing, and keep the WiFi up to download updates etc. So the first few days they are normally hot with minimal battery. Judge them after a week.

I think I could live with the rMB since I'd be maxing it out ("i7"/16gb RAM) with the expectation of getting at least 4-5 years from it as I have with my previous Macs. Comparatively, the nTB model would be the base i5 w/ 16gb RAM nearly similar builds, same cost from an authorized reseller here. It's a tough choice to make.

The difference between the 12” and 13” isn’t ‘power’ as such - it’s sustained power.

I came from a rMB to a TB MBP - the difference is stark. And you’ve nailed the reason why with your original question. Any task that blasts the fan on a MBP is going to be (relatively) horrific on a rMB.

Unfortunately we live within the laws of physics. Once the CPU gets hot in the rMB, it’s a matter of time for throttling to kick in. It is the perfect machine for short bursts of power. It is the worst machine for sustained loads. When under heavy load - the CPU heats up, MacBook shell heats up, the surface it’s on heats up, and suddenly the entire heat dissipation system is completely hamstrung.

See this article for more information (under ‘Performance’): https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-12-2017-Laptop-Review.230656.0.html

As you can see in the article, that machine throttles very heavily and consistently under load. Exactly what the MBPs avoid. The 2017 MBPs never throttle unless both CPU and GPU are stressed at the same time (source).

But the vast majority of consumers never do this kind of work.

For me, using iMovie on a 4K screen absolutely crushed the rMB. The MBP handles it like a champ. But it absolutely blasts the two fans when exporting.

I imagine for the workload you’ve described you would probably get away with the rMB. But you’re definitely on the cusp of what it’s intended for.

based on my reply above - do you think the maxed out rMB would lessen any potential throttling/noticeable performance loss? your comment perfectly summarized my feelings hence still being undecided.

 

[andy9l]

based on my reply above - do you think the maxed out rMB would lessen any potential throttling/noticeable performance loss? your comment perfectly summarized my feelings hence still being undecided.

For basic tasks and occasional VM work you'll probably be fine. I wouldn't expect to get 4-5 years out of it though.

Remember the CPUs in the rMB are a single chip that's been binned - they're manufactured identically then split into 'M3' / 'i5' / 'i7' according to how well they perform in testing. The ones that make the cut for 'i7' theoretically perform best and are therefore overclocked slightly. This isn't unusual or unique to the rMB - it's common practice for chip manufacturers. What this means to you is that all 3 versions of the chip will suffer from very similar thermal limitations.

Famously, in the 2016 model, this meant the M5 would regularly outperform the M7 for certain tasks:

I haven't looked, but I would assume the chips used in the MBP are also binned. I believe the only difference is operating frequency (and thus efficiency), as all mobile CPUs offer hyper-threading. Don't quote me on this, though - I haven't done enough research on the KabyLake mobile CPUs.

Edit: It's not just performance you sacrifice with the rMB, it's also connectivity and screen real estate. If you're tempted by the rMB, why not pick one up and try it for 14 days (from Apple).

 

[taxi_driver]

would you expect similar results from the Kaby Lake counterparts?

on longevity, I'd have a hard time stomaching the cost of a maxed out rMB that wouldn't be useful after year 4. that fact alone might sway me to a MBP for the same amount.

 

[maximit]

The 13 TB models will turn off the fans and run silent. That’s is why they can be a little warm with light use as the fans are not running. I love the silent TB 13 models. When the fans kick in they tend to be louder but it’s only under heavier use.

 

[taxi_driver]

The 13 TB models will turn off the fans and run silent. That’s is why they can be a little warm with light use as the fans are not running. I love the silent TB 13 models. When the fans kick in they tend to be louder but it’s only under heavier use.

this is not true for the nTB?

 

[andy9l]

would you expect similar results from the Kaby Lake counterparts?

on longevity, I'd have a hard time stomaching the cost of a maxed out rMB that wouldn't be useful after year 4. that fact alone might sway me to a MBP for the same amount.

You should expect the ‘i7’ CPU to offer the best performance. The 2016 model benchmarks were hopefully an anomaly.

Four years is a long time, but if your use case doesn’t change in that time then, in theory, there’s no reason why your Mac (be it rMB or nTB) wouldn’t continue to be useful. Remember you’re limiting yourself slightly in terms of connectivity if you go for the single port rMB.

this is not true for the nTB?

Yes it is. The 13” MBPs now run at 0rpm for most tasks. It’s only when they get hot that they start spinning - I don’t know the exact temperatures. This is common practice for modern day CPU and GPU cooling. My high-end nVidia graphics cards do the same in my PC, for example.

The difference between TB and nTB in terms of cooling is that the nTB has only one fan and a weaker cooling system. It has a 15W CPU and is therefore less efficient than the 28W CPU in the TB model.

Theoretically, and according to early reviews, the nTB cooling is therefore louder and drives its fan harder more frequently. The degree to which this actually impacts a user in real-life is going to be very minimal.

I still feel like you’re swaying towards the rMB, so I say again - buy one and try it out.

I’ll add that I bought a rMB in 2015 as I already had a high spec iMac for serious work. I don’t regret my purchase one bit and it remains to be my favourite Apple product I’ve ever owned. But it’s key to remember that I had an iMac too. The rMB was explicitly for travel and lounging around the home - a better iPad, if you will. I used it at work regularly too (consultancy and JavaScript development mostly), but not hooked up to displays.

As soon as I tried using the rMB as a more primary machine hooked up to my 4K USB-C monitor, its weaknesses started to shine brightly - hence my upgrade to the 2017 13” TB. Now I barely touch the iMac.

 

[jimmypod]

I have a nTB Macbook Pro 13" and the fan sounds like an electric razor. Really mechanical/robotic and not at all like how the TB MBP's fans sounded (just air wooshing out).

 

[taxi_driver]

I have a nTB Macbook Pro 13" and the fan sounds like an electric razor. Really mechanical/robotic and not at all like how the TB MBP's fans sounded (just air wooshing out).

damn that sucks sry to hear.

after reading a ton and reevaluating my needs, i've moved on from MBP's and back into PC/windows territory. too many sacrifices for too much money, hard to justify the premium.

 

[andy9l]

after reading a ton and reevaluating my needs, i've moved on from MBP's and back into PC/windows territory. too many sacrifices for too much money, hard to justify the premium.

Interesting conclusion!

Moving to Windows comes with far, far too many sacrifices for many people on this forum who are heavily invested in the Apple ecosystem. I for one literally couldn’t make a living on Windows.

However, I use the latest Win 10 on my gaming PC and it is absolutely fine nowadays. A world away from what it once was. Still not as refined as MacOS, but it’s certainly viable if you’re used to it.

 

[taxi_driver]

Interesting conclusion!

Moving to Windows comes with far, far too many sacrifices for many people on this forum who are heavily invested in the Apple ecosystem. I for one literally couldn’t make a living on Windows.

However, I use the latest Win 10 on my gaming PC and it is absolutely fine nowadays. A world away from what it once was. Still not as refined as MacOS, but it’s certainly viable if you’re used to it.

I'm still very invested in the Apple ecosystem - Apple TV (also have an Android TV device); iPhone 6; Airport Express for wireless music. With some time and tweaking, I'm sure it'll all communicate with each other just not as easily.

My ideal Apple machine just doesn't exist right now. After considering my use case, a PC should be able to do everything I need it to do plus some. I've been using W10 PC at work which has been more than fine, its more of my at-home personal use that'll have a learning curve.

Plus, none of the new iPhones are that intriguing and can't live without a headphone jack. This also influenced part of my decision potentially moving to Android if I don't grab a 6S.

 

[andy9l]

Fair enough, sounds like you’ve thought it through!

I agree on the iPhone comment. I used to buy every year. I’m now still using the 6S I picked up on launch day over three years ago. I’m tempted by the X largely for the camera.

If I give one further recommendation it would be this; if you go for an Android, avoid Samsung. I did it for a year - regretted almost every day. It’s not ‘Android’ you get on those Samsungs. It’s like Samdroid. Loaded with bloatware and Samsung this, Samsung that. If you go Android, stick to the One+ or Pixel! Stock Android is great, it’s how the manufacturers butcher it that ruins it.

Apply that to Windows machines too - stock Windows is great. The manufacturers just load it up with so much stuff that crushes the relatively lean experience. Best to buy your Windows PC, buy an OEM copy of Windows straight from Microsoft and format/install on your new machine straight away.

 

[Guacamole]

I just bought a new macbook pro 13” , without the TB... and yes I was surprised by the fan noise, most noticeable when I’m using photoshop, this didn’t happen on my 2012 matchbook pro...

 

[taxi_driver]

Fair enough, sounds like you’ve thought it through!

I agree on the iPhone comment. I used to buy every year. I’m now still using the 6S I picked up on launch day over three years ago. I’m tempted by the X largely for the camera.

If I give one further recommendation it would be this; if you go for an Android, avoid Samsung. I did it for a year - regretted almost every day. It’s not ‘Android’ you get on those Samsungs. It’s like Samdroid. Loaded with bloatware and Samsung this, Samsung that. If you go Android, stick to the One+ or Pixel! Stock Android is great, it’s how the manufacturers butcher it that ruins it.

Apply that to Windows machines too - stock Windows is great. The manufacturers just load it up with so much stuff that crushes the relatively lean experience. Best to buy your Windows PC, buy an OEM copy of Windows straight from Microsoft and format/install on your new machine straight away.

definitely planning on both and if possible, would buy from a Microsoft store direct which comes with some post-sale peace of mind. there are a few manufacturers that ship with signature edition, no added bloat.

I just bought a new macbook pro 13” , without the TB... and yes I was surprised by the fan noise, most noticeable when I’m using photoshop, this didn’t happen on my 2012 matchbook pro...

curious if you'll keep it despite the noise?

 

[andy9l]

definitely planning on both and if possible, would buy from a Microsoft store direct which comes with some post-sale peace of mind. there are a few manufacturers that ship with signature edition, no added bloat.

Good luck my friend.

 

[Braveshock]

Basically I have a MacBook Pro 13 inch 512/16GB of RAM and have in my opinion some problem with fan noise...I heard some like "whistling" once my fans achieve 3900-4100RMP. I recorded quick sound based on what I have - link below

https://vocaroo.com/i/s16V4sT6QiX0

 

[taxi_driver]

I ended up getting a refurb 2015 MBP and it's been running great, no complaints or fan noise

 

[parajba]

For the record, on my i7 nTB 16GB (2017) fans have not turned up once (tried YouTube HD x 2 tabs, + 20 other tabs in safari, Skype, Netflix, Spotify, all simultaneously). Admittedly nothing too intensive.

 

[macflint]

After much research and trying to make sense of all of the views expressed in these forums, I just got a Non-TB 256GB this afternoon (good discount of around 14%). Really don't need the TB, but do need the Esc key (vi etc.)

No fan noise under normal use (compiling, office, browsing etc.) - the fan is off. When I run four instances of yes, it ramps up to 22W, 3.6GHz, 95degC, 7200RPM - and stays there until I kill the yes processes.

Whooshing air sound - no harsh sounds. Just as expected.

Already used to the keyboard.

Very happy that I got the NTB.