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Flop or not?

Shanghaichica

Shanghaichica

macrumors G5
Original poster
Apr 8, 2013
14,772
13,297
UK
Last edited:
I don't think it'll be a flop, its just not a massive update from the S4.

Those people who are still using the S3 or even the S2 will find it a worthy upgrade, much like people on iOS who went from an iPhone 4 to a 5S. I just think we need to be realistic and not expect a ground-breaking phone every 12 months. Consumers have got too greedy and demanding based on a short space of time where the features race seemed in full flow.
 
I think the disappointment is that compared to other manufacturers that have been adding innovative, useful features like Motorola with always listening, LG with knock on and their stepped battery, even Oppo with their swivel camera, Samsung has done nothing really new other than a spec bump. I mean all the other devices have been out for a while and have been well recieved. I was sort of hoping that Samsung would build on some of those concepts.

Sure they borrowed the fingerprint idea from Apple, but it seems like a missed opportunity to have made one phone to rule them all.
 
The same way people don't buy iPhones for customization, most people don't buy Galaxy devices for the looks. It's not a flop, but the disappointment is that it's just a S4(S) model.
 
It's mostly us people that are on forums all the time that are disappointed, the average customer will be very pleased with the S5.
 
TacticalDesire said:
It will still sell like hotcakes no matter what the tech crowd thinks of it.
Click to expand...

Tech crowd probably realize that it has pretty much the same internals as everyone else in the android dommain (with the bloat unfortunately)..The common S4 user might say " Whats different"? I'm sure it'll sell though given samsung's marketing over the past year (14 billion) and their presence in different markets..
 
Galaxy S4 sold in record numbers for Samsung. Some sites say 80M-100M or perhaps just 40-50M which is still ALOT of smartphones being sold. Initial negative responses don't mean squat especially in forums or social network sites that represents a small % of actual consumers.

Galaxy S phones are generally critic-proof like iPhones. I can remember the initial negative reactions with prev iPhones and the Galaxy S4 from last year, and they still sold in record numbers. The S4 wasn't even as critically acclaimed smartphone last year like the HTC One and even the LG G2 and it still raked in more cash for Samsung while others racked up tech awards but sold very little compared to the S4. Sony Xperia Z sold like 15M which is considered very good for Sony but still is just a fraction of S4 sales.

Samsung has been linked with the Summer Olympics, the NBA, and several celebrities using the white glove method. I generally have been anti-Samsung and generally have no interest in most Samsung products. But the one thing the Samsung Galaxy S phones are not is being a flop. 200M sold worldwide. Proof shows marketing makes Samsung flagships box office flop-proof for the foreseeable future. And the Note series will carry Samsung if the latest S phone does flop.
 
I think generally speaking it will be a successful product. People slammed the 5S and before that the iPhone 5, for lack luster features and both were (and are) highly successful products for apple.

I think those folks coming off the S4 will be jumping on this in droves imo
 
The-Real-Deal82 said:
I don't think it'll be a flop, its just not a massive update from the S4.

Those people who are still using the S3 or even the S2 will find it a worthy upgrade, much like people on iOS who went from an iPhone 4 to a 5S. I just think we need to be realistic and not expect a ground-breaking phone every 12 months. Consumers have got too greedy and demanding based on a short space of time where the features race seemed in full flow.
Click to expand...

I think we all expected a bigger update because the S4 was an iterative upgrade to the S3. It only seemed likely they would overhaul the S5, but apparently that is not the name of the game with Samsung.
 
It will not flop b.c there are millions of people coming off 2 year contracts looking to upgrade.
 
That pre-order is tied to a sweepstakes. Those numbers are deceiving. S5 will sell well but make nothing of these numbers.
 
Savor said:
And the Note series will carry Samsung if the latest S phone does flop.
Click to expand...


Note is no where close to the galaxy S in sales and demand. In its best month (the 30 days following launch) with all the media ads and print ads, it managed 5 million worldwide sales. Thats no where close to a number that will "carry" samsung if the S family does not step up. We are talking about Samsung here, they are the largest OEM on the planet..5 million on launch month despite of a marketing and advertising blitz is very much a niche..given that it was the Note, Note2 and mainly Galaxy S3 and S4 that has propped up interest in Samsung so these platforms (S3 and 4) did all the hard work, and note should have reaped the rewards.
 
vomhorizon said:
I'm sure it'll sell though given samsung's marketing over the past year (14 billion) and their presence in different markets..
Click to expand...

You keep repeating this all over the place as if it is fact but you might like to point out that as far as I can tell, this is only an estimate. It's also an estimate which I cannot find the original source for or how it was extrapolated.

While you're at it, you might also like to point out that this ESTIMATED 14b covers not just phones, but the massive amount of home appliances that Samsung produces.

Another good point might be that Samsung is an official Olympic sponsor and probably had to drop a bunch of money on stuff related to this in the lead up to the games.
 
SlCKB0Y said:
You keep repeating this all over the place as if it is fact but you might like to point out that as far as I can tell, this is only an estimate. It's also an estimate which I cannot find the original source for or how it was extrapolated.

While you're at it, you might also like to point out that this ESTIMATED 14b covers not just phones, but the massive amount of home appliances that Samsung produces.

Another good point might be that Samsung is an official Olympic sponsor and probably had to drop a bunch of money on stuff related to this in the lead up to the games.
Click to expand...

And how does it differ from what i have said? I am not calling samsung the evil that markets a lot. They have spent a ton of money on marketing and will reap the benefits fo that across platforms and businesses. They have also invested for years in having a supply and retail presence in the developing world (india and china) which has allowed them to offer services over there..where apple is not present or will take time..Combine all of this and it pushes them their sales...

HTC is no where close to that level, nor has the capital to actually get to that level anytime soon. The smartest comment i read was from their executive who was running apple's push in asia. He said that affordable devices are a focus for "our company" as first time buyers do not want to take a chance with HTC on a 600 dollar cell phone...This is the reason (along with others) that HTC could not come even remotely close to samsung S4 sales despite of having lapped up critics awards and the best cell phone of 2013 title at MWC.
 
vomhorizon said:
And how does it differ from what i have said? I am not calling samsung the evil that markets a lot. They have spent a ton of money on marketing and will reap the benefits fo that across platforms and businesses. They have also invested for years in having a supply and retail presence in the developing world (india and china) which has allowed them to offer services over there..where apple is not present or will take time..Combine all of this and it pushes them their sales...
Click to expand...

Because you seem to be minimising the reasons for samsungs success... "Of course they're selling well, they spent 14B on advertising" or "of course they're selling well, they've made inroads into the two most populous countries in the world".

You're failing to acknowledge that they might be selling well because of the merits of their products and that they can compete with apple on an even playing feld.
 
SlCKB0Y said:
Because you seem to be minimising the reasons for samsungs success... "Of course they're selling well, they spent 14B on advertising" or "of course they're selling well, they've made inroads into the two most populous countries in the world".

You're failing to acknowledge that they might be selling well because of the merits of their products and that they can compete with apple on an even playing feld.
Click to expand...

In order to sell phones a company needs to have market presence, have a relationship established within the market, have a product supply down, have a marketing strategy and have devices which appeal to the customer base they are targeting. Samsung does well on all counts..They do make good phones but is the GS4 better then the HTC One? Not according to a lot of critics. Is GS4 better then nexus5? Not according to a lot of critics. Is the GS4 the best android 5" smartphone? I wouldnt say so..In the end its marketing, having presence in markets and having invested billions of dollars over the years to develop a brand that contributes to samsung's success. If it came down to just having awesome phones, i am afraid HTC would have been no 1 based on the One as far as flagship android categories go.

Coming to samsung v apple. Samsung does have an edge when it comes to the fastest growing markets ( China, BRIC (india, russia etc) where apple has not penetrated with any product before the iPhone. Apple has only been selling mobile phones since 2007, and has slowly built up market presence. These markets never really had experience to apple products be it computers or iPod while consumers in those markets have experienced samsung both in feature phones, and affordable samsung smartphones..As these markets develop Samsung enjoys the edge due to product familiarity..Samsung's edge vis-a-vis apple (infrastructure in developing countries) will erode but they'll still have an edge for some years. India does not even have an Apple store (local laws) whereas Samsung's retain model has existed for many years. Apple has just rolled out the iPhone into 50 carriers that did not offer it (through subsidy) earlier..slowly apple will penetrate developing markets, but it will take years.

In the mature markets ( infact in all markets), Apple is pulling 3 times as many customers away from samsung as samsung is pulling away from it.
 
SlCKB0Y said:
Because you seem to be minimising the reasons for samsungs success... "Of course they're selling well, they spent 14B on advertising" or "of course they're selling well, they've made inroads into the two most populous countries in the world".

You're failing to acknowledge that they might be selling well because of the merits of their products and that they can compete with apple on an even playing feld.
Click to expand...

I don't see where he mentioned apple anywhere in his post, I don't get why Samsung fans always feel the need to bring apple into the conversation.

As to his point, marketing is a huge advantage for Samsung. If you look at last year's flagships (Moto X, HTC One, Xperia Z, Nexus 5, and LG G2), the S4 was probably the worst in terms of design, build, and software, yet was the biggest seller.

Not saying its a bad phone or anything, it definitely has some advantages when compared to those other handsets (removable battery, SD card), but that doesn't account for the huge disparity between how many more S4's were sold when compared to the other OEMS. However, marketing does as Samsung has a huge lead over everyone else.
 
It isn't rare for Samsung to sell around 20M-40M worldwide with a Galaxy S phone. The S4 was highly popular like the S II and SIII before it.

For other competitors, selling 10M-15M is already a big deal. LG G2 only sold like 3M and LG is like the #3 most popular OEM in the world behind Samsung and Apple. HTC sold like 5M give or take and that is considered very successful for them considering how bad the One X flopped. Sony sold like 15M Xperia Z's and that is considered very, very successful for them.

Galaxy Notes can sell 10M after a few months and that is considered a niche device that now has broken more into the mainstream. I expect the Note 4 to be the most popular Note ever selling north of 25M.

In the US market, it is a bit different. Apple is the most popular OEM. The gap between iOS vs Android is less than 10% while globally there is a 65% gap between them. In Spain, over 92% of the smartphone users use Android and that isn't exactly a 3rd world country last time I checked. Reason being subsidized pricing since most Americans are in the mercy of carriers. You can get iPhones the cheapest that way unlike most of us who generally have to pay full retail.

Most countries outside US live under a prepaid plan. Heck, I was with AT&T for 10 years when they were still called Cingular. Now I spend $5 every month for my local calls and unlimited texting to the same network.

Alot of us also have two lines with dual sim phones. Alot of us also have multiple phones for backup. My WiFi is free in the mall I live next to so I don't need data and can use Viber or Google Voice to text my relatives Stateside.

North America might be the only continent where Apple/iOS has the biggest presence and where Americans only know 7-8 phone makers. In Asia, it is 25+. Outside US, the gap between Android vs iOS or Samsung vs Apple becomes Grand Canyon wide.
 
Savor said:
It isn't rare for Samsung to sell around 20M-40M worldwide with a Galaxy S phone. The S4 was highly popular like the S II and SIII before it.

For other competitors, selling 10M-15M is already a big deal. LG G2 only sold like 3M and LG is like the #3 most popular OEM in the world behind Samsung and Apple. HTC sold like 5M give or take and that is considered very successful for them considering how bad the One X flopped. Sony sold like 15M Xperia Z's and that is considered very, very successful for them.

Galaxy Notes can sell 10M after a few months and that is considered a niche device that now has broken more into the mainstream. I expect the Note 4 to be the most popular Note ever selling north of 25M.

In the US market, it is a bit different. Apple is the most popular OEM. The gap between iOS vs Android is less than 10% while globally there is a 65% gap between them. In Spain, over 92% of the smartphone users use Android and that isn't exactly a 3rd world country last time I checked. Reason being subsidized pricing since most Americans are in the mercy of carriers. You can get iPhones the cheapest that way unlike most of us who generally have to pay full retail.

Most countries outside US live under a prepaid plan. Heck, I was with AT&T for 10 years when they were still called Cingular. Now I spend $5 every month for my local calls and unlimited texting to the same network.

Alot of us also have two lines with dual sim phones. Alot of us also have multiple phones for backup. My WiFi is free in the mall I live next to so I don't need data and can use Viber or Google Voice to text my relatives Stateside.

North America might be the only continent where Apple/iOS has the biggest presence and where Americans only know 7-8 phone makers. In Asia, it is 25+. Outside US, the gap between Android vs iOS or Samsung vs Apple becomes Grand Canyon wide.
Click to expand...

Assessing the performance of iOS and android is rather futile, the business models are different. Android is more interested in market-share while apple cannot compete against anyone in market share unless it A) sells its software B) produces 3x or 4x more phones which it cannot given production constraints and contracts. Purely from markets as Tim Cook emphasized, its a 2 man show (Sam Vs Apple) and where samsung does take the cake is devices that exist at price points where apple really does not compete (smartphones that go for as little as $150 off contract). Apple is no 1 in America, Canada and Japan. No. 2 in europe and also no2 in all of Asia.
 
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