Fusion or SSD for upgradability?

[Smatwot]

Hi Everyone, first post so please go easy.

I have looked around but can’t find a detailed answer to the following (not simply just go ssd) imac 5k2017 buying question?

Would it be best to get the 512gb SSD (i assume Apple install this via the PCie connection?) and add an internal SSD purchasing HDD mount and cabling etc

Or

Purchase the 2tb fusion drive and wait for the PCie 512gb OWC upgrade which is rumoured

Or

Update the HDD In the fusion to SSD

I ask as I want storage (photo, music and video editing) but don’t want to have to manage it constantly and also have external drives connected. I believe fusion will manage this better than I will and moving files back and fourth from large Hdd to faster ssd’s manually would actually be less efficient than leaving fusion to manage it?

I hope this makes sense?

Thanks

 

[jzuena]

I went with the SSD to have one less moving part inside the shell of the iMac. The heat in the iMac can't be good for a spinning drive. I do have a couple of USB 3.0 external drives, though.

Opening the iMac to make a drive swap doesn't look like very much fun.

 

[SaSaSushi]

I agree with the advice above. I will never buy a Mac with a spinning drive again.

Plus, devices like this soon-to-be-released Plugable Thunderbolt 3 drive are out there for future upgradability with no need for open-Mac surgery.

 

[nambuccaheadsau]

Go with a 480GB PCI-e Flash Storage unit, OWC have them now and here is a link to installing:-


https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/SSDIM12Y480/

 

[danielwsmithee]

I’ll also never put a spinning drive inside a sealed enclosure again. That means SSD for the iMac.

What I have found that works best is to just create symbolic links to the external drive for the folders I want located there. In my case that is music and movies for each user account.

That way all the accounts as they normally are with no major thought into putting it onto a second drive.

 

[Smatwot]

Go with a 480GB PCI-e Flash Storage unit, OWC have them now and here is a link to installing:-


https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/SSDIM12Y480/

Thanks for the link, not sure if these are IMac 5k 2017 compatiable?
[doublepost=1515232617][/doublepost]

I agree with the advice above. I will never buy a Mac with a spinning drive again.

Plus, devices like this soon-to-be-released Plugable Thunderbolt 3 drive are out there for future upgradability with no need for open-Mac surgery.

Any idea if the price range?

 

[SaSaSushi]

Any idea if the price range?

No, there has been no announcement on pricing yet that I am aware of. I am also looking forward to finding out what these will cost.

With a planned shipment in the first quarter of this year I don't expect it will be much longer before it's announced.

 

[maflynn]

Thanks for the link, not sure if these are IMac 5k 2017 compatiable?

I wouldn't risk damaging the iMac to upgrade the storage, especially when you have the opportunity to configure the machine with an SSD from the get go.

 

[Smatwot]

I wouldn't risk damaging the iMac to upgrade the storage, especially when you have the opportunity to configure the machine with an SSD from the get go.

To be honest I would only do this once warranty has expired so will have at least 12 months of the standard configuration option I go for.

The issue I have is with the fusion setup I will have 128gb ssd and 3tb of internal SATA 7500rpm storage with auto efficiency management of apples fusion software.

If I go full ssd and then have usb 3.0 2.5 inch drive connected, the external drive will be a bigger bottleneck than the equivalent internal (I need the storage) without the auto manage feature of the fusion drive?

Unless i can configure the fusion drive to use the 512gb ssd with an external usb 3.0 7200rpm drive?
[doublepost=1515239676][/doublepost]

To be honest I would only do this once warranty has expired so will have at least 12 months of the standard configuration option I go for.

The issue I have is with the fusion setup I will have 128gb ssd and 3tb of internal SATA 7500rpm storage with auto efficiency management of apples fusion software.

If I go full ssd and then have usb 3.0 2.5 inch drive connected, the external drive will be a bigger bottleneck than the equivalent internal (I need the storage) without the auto manage feature of the fusion drive?

Unless i can configure the fusion drive to use the 512gb ssd with an external usb 3.0 7200rpm drive?

Answered my own question here:
https://www.macworld.com/article/2014011/storage-drives/how-to-make-your-own-fusion-drive.html

Anyone done this, does the fact that usb 3.0 having a slower connection speed than SATA 6Gb (1Gb) make this option less efficient than the standard fusion?

 

[Fishrrman]

Opening the iMac under the warranty period will VOID the warranty. If you break something inside, it will be your responsibility to pay for the repair.

You don't want to open it, even OUT OF warranty.
Too much risk of breaking something inside. And then you're going to pay, as well.

My advice:
Get a "straight" SSD right out-of-the-box (these have to be ordered through Apple's "build-to-order" page). It will run at full speed for the life of the Mac.
The 512gb size is fine, it adds $300 to the cost of the iMac.

For more storage space, plug in an EXTERNAL USB3 drive. It can be either an SSD or an HDD, depending on your requirements and budget.
Get a 2.5" form factor drive, and velcro it to the back of the iMac's stand where it will be up-and-out-of-the-way. You won't even know it's there.

 

[SaSaSushi]

I strongly recommend against booting any Mac from a USB3-attached SSD, particularly a 2017 model with so many other options.

USB3 does not support TRIM commands. You also won't be able to run firmware updates for the SSD. Lack of TRIM means increased write amplification.

If you like to use BootCamp you won't be able to do that either.

Garbage collection ≠ TRIM and is not a replacement for it.

That, overall, means decreased performance and a quicker path to the end of life for the drive (although you'll likely get an earful from others in here about their own personal experiences being different).

It's just science. The lifetime of an SSD is counted in writes.

Anyway, for Macs like yours with USB-C/TB3 the more reasonably-priced external NVMe SSDs are coming, particularly if this is something you're not thinking about doing until the warranty runs out.

I have the 2017 iMac with a 512GB SSD and I've never used more than about 300GB of it. That includes a 60GB Windows 10 Parallels VM and a 40GB Linux Mint VM.

All music and backup is run off external drives. A 512GB SSD in a Delock Thunderbolt enclosure I used to use to boot my Late 2013 iMac from is now devoted to BootCamp via an Apple TB2 to TB3 adapter. A 6TB (2 x 3TB HDD) RAID0 USB 3.1 Gen 2 enclosure is for all music, photos, videos and backup and another 3TB USB3 external HDD is for redundant backups.

 

[Fishrrman]

Sushi wrote:
"I strongly recommend against booting any Mac from a USB3-attached SSD, particularly a 2017 model with so many other options."

I strongly suggest that anyone reading this IGNORE the post above.
Sushi -- how much experience do you have ACTUALLY RUNNING an iMac (or any other Mac) this way for an extended period of time?
I assert that you have little or none. If you actually HAD some experience, you'd know differently.

This month marks FIVE YEARS since I first booted my 2012 Mac Mini via an SSD in a USB3/Sata dock. During that time, the Mini saw heavy usage -- up to 12-15 hours a day of running, seven days a week.

I've never had problems with my boot SSDs. They run as well today, as when first booted.
TRIM has never -- NEVER -- become an issue.

I don't recommend running this way for everyone -- of course not.
Why don't you reread the advice I gave the OP in post 10 above?
But for a "slightly-older" iMac which has only a platter-based hard drive inside, it could extend and improve the life of the computer.
And make things much faster for the owner, with little expense or effort.

 

[macomar]

My advice:
Get a "straight" SSD right out-of-the-box (these have to be ordered through Apple's "build-to-order" page). It will run at full speed for the life of the Mac.
The 512gb size is fine, it adds $300 to the cost of the iMac.

For more storage space, plug in an EXTERNAL USB3 drive. It can be either an SSD or an HDD, depending on your requirements and budget.
Get a 2.5" form factor drive, and velcro it to the back of the iMac's stand where it will be up-and-out-of-the-way. You won't even know it's there.

I will second this suggestion! You can even make a fusion drive with the internal SSD and external HD. I currently have the internal 512GB SSD paired with an external 4TB HD. Note that any upgrade to a fusion drive requires a full tear down, rebuild, and restore from full backups.

 

[SaSaSushi]

Sushi wrote:
"I strongly recommend against booting any Mac from a USB3-attached SSD, particularly a 2017 model with so many other options."

I strongly suggest that anyone reading this IGNORE the post above.
Sushi -- how much experience do you have ACTUALLY RUNNING an iMac (or any other Mac) this way for an extended period of time?
I assert that you have little or none. If you actually HAD some experience, you'd know differently.

I've been running a Samsung 840 EVO 512GB SSD in the Delock Thunderbolt enclosure for going on five years now and the lifetime left indicator in SMART is at 92%.

With all due respect to your personal experience it's just simple science. Not that I need to spell this out again but the lifetime of an SSD is measured in writes. Lack of TRIM means increased write amplification.

If you don't mind that, it's your prerogative but let's not try to pretend that the fact that your drives haven't died yet is proof that TRIM is meaningless.
[doublepost=1515372096][/doublepost]By the way, how do you apply those meaningless firmware updates the SSD makers release on your USB3-attached SSD?

 

[EugW]

Sushi wrote:
"I strongly recommend against booting any Mac from a USB3-attached SSD, particularly a 2017 model with so many other options."

I strongly suggest that anyone reading this IGNORE the post above.
Sushi -- how much experience do you have ACTUALLY RUNNING an iMac (or any other Mac) this way for an extended period of time?
I assert that you have little or none. If you actually HAD some experience, you'd know differently.

This month marks FIVE YEARS since I first booted my 2012 Mac Mini via an SSD in a USB3/Sata dock. During that time, the Mini saw heavy usage -- up to 12-15 hours a day of running, seven days a week.

I've never had problems with my boot SSDs. They run as well today, as when first booted.
TRIM has never -- NEVER -- become an issue.

I don't recommend running this way for everyone -- of course not.
Why don't you reread the advice I gave the OP in post 10 above?
But for a "slightly-older" iMac which has only a platter-based hard drive inside, it could extend and improve the life of the computer.
And make things much faster for the owner, with little expense or effort.

I had serious performance problems with my Samsung 850 EVO in a non-TRIMed external enclosure. With extended writes (like copying pictures from my camera flash card), the machine would slow to a crawl.

However, one way to mitigate this is to get way more storage capacity than you actually need, so much of the drive stays empty. SSDs typically slow down when more than about 75% full, but it's even worse if they don't have TRIM.

 

[cynics]

OP: Many folks around here can't see the value in an HDD because they are so slow by comparison and we've all seen at least one fail. Personally at this point I've seen enough SSD's fail that it doesn't matter to me, especially since you are intent on opening up the iMac anyway.

Fusion Drive performance will vary by person on a case by case basis. Core storage is fairly intelligent at how to utilize the space. So most of the time you'll be using the SSD. That is where the OS will reside and the portions of programs you use. Unused and lesser used files and programs (including the built in Apple apps) will end up on the HDD.

I think the FD will hold you over past the warranty period and than you can unfuse the drives and upgrade the HDD to an SATA SSD which will hopefully be more affordable for larger capacities by then. This wont give you PCIe performance but SATA SSD move data faster than most peoples patience will expire.

Or you can hold out, save longer and get an iMac with a larger SSD.

 

[danielwsmithee]

I had serious performance problems with my Samsung 850 EVO in a non-TRIMed external enclosure. With extended writes (like copying pictures from my camera flash card), the machine would slow to a crawl.

However, one way to mitigate this is to get way more storage capacity than you actually need, so much of the drive stays empty. SSDs typically slow down when more than about 75% full, but it's even worse if they don't have TRIM.

If you use it as a boot volume with user accounts on a different drive there are very few writes that actually performed. This is perfectly reasonable application for a small external USB SSD. It is pretty good upgrade for an iMac with a HD or 1TB Fusion Drive.

 

[EugW]

If you use it as a boot volume with user accounts on a different drive there are very few writes that actually performed. This is perfectly reasonable application for a small external USB SSD. It is pretty good upgrade for an iMac with a HD or 1TB Fusion Drive.

That is true to a certain extent. However, I was hoping for better, for data drive usage as well on external SSD.

So when I replaced my iMac, I got one with 1 TB internal SSD. This is just so much nicer... And I bought a Samsung T5 USB-C 1 TB drive to supplement it. That's a killer combination.

Even better would be a 2 TB internal SSD and 2 TB external but that was too spendy for me.

 

[danielwsmithee]

That is true to a certain extent. However, I was hoping for better, for data drive usage as well on external SSD.

So when I replaced my iMac, I got one with 1 TB internal SSD. This is just so much nicer... And I bought a Samsung T5 USB-C 1 TB drive to supplement it. That's a killer combination.

Even better would be a 2 TB internal SSD and 2 TB external but that was too spendy for me.

No question an internal PCIe SSD is superior. I wouldn’t buy an iMac with spinning HD inside ever again. I’ve opened my 2009 iMac 4 times due to HD failures. Haven’t had a problem since I went all SSD, and PCIe is far superior to SATA for SSDs.

 

[EugW]

No question an internal PCIe SSD is superior. I wouldn’t buy an iMac with spinning HD inside ever again. I’ve opened my 2009 iMac 4 times due to HD failures. Haven’t had a problem since I went all SSD, and PCIe is far superior to SATA for SSDs.

Interestingly, my 2010 iMac Core i7 is still on its original hard drive. Same with the 2006 Core Duo iMac that my workplace gifted me.

Not sure what to do with the Core Duo 2.0 iMac though, BTW. It’s been sitting on my shelf unused for 2 years. Can’t go past 10.6.8 and Chrome OS won’t install on it either. Linux seems like it would be a pain to install.