G-RAID with SSDs — should it be faster than this?

[dawindmg08]

Hi all,
I've had an 8TB G-RAID Thunderbolt 3 drive for a couple years and I got tired of the noise and slow speeds with my Mac -- around 380 MB/s -- so I just swapped out the HDDs with two WD Blue 2.5" SSDs. I used the RAID configurator to format the array as RAID 0 and then initialized them with Disk Utility to APFS/GUID. The speeds now read as 490 write/520 read. This is good but not amazing -- the drives are supposed to have a max speed on their own of 560 MB/s, and while I knew they wouldn't hit that speed I was hoping to see some boost by combining them at least in the 700s. Do I need to do anything else to unlock more speed, or is this just a limitation of using only 2 disks in an array or possibly a bottleneck with the G-RAID itself?

TIA,
D

 

[joevt]

What Mac are you using? What size WD Blue 2.5" SSDs?

What benchmark are you using? AmorphousDiskMark will show the highest numbers for its sequential test. ATTO Disk Benchmark can test multiple disks at the same time without having to make a RAID 0.

Try adding a HFS+ partition and testing that?

What is the raid controller used in the G-RAID? Check the PCI tab in System Information.app for the vendor and product ID. Also report the PCI link width and link rate.

What does the Thunderbolt tab in System Information.app report for the Thunderbolt connection speed (link rate and link width)? "40 Gbps x1", "20 Gbps x1", or "10 Gbps x1" - it shouldn't matter since any of them should be able to do 700 MB/s read/write. I think the G-RAID comes with a 20 Gbps cable.

If you connect the G-RAID using USB, what USB device (product and vendor ID) does it use? Does it have similar performance as Thunderbolt? It's USB 3.1 gen 2 so it should be able to do up to 1000 MB/s.

 

[dawindmg08]

What Mac are you using? What size WD Blue 2.5" SSDs?

Macbook Pro 2019, 16", i9, 64GB ram, 1TB, 5500M 8GB. SSDs are 2TB each.

What benchmark are you using? AmorphousDiskMark will show the highest numbers for its sequential test. ATTO Disk Benchmark can test multiple disks at the same time without having to make a RAID 0.

I was using Blackmagic Speed Test. I just used Amorphous and got 540 read, 531 write on the array

Try adding a HFS+ partition and testing that?

Can't add HFS now that they've been formatted APFS.

What is the raid controller used in the G-RAID? Check the PCI tab in System Information.app for the vendor and product ID. Also report the PCI link width and link rate.

I didn't see this info in the PCI tab. Vendor ID in Thunderbolt tab is 0xC

What does the Thunderbolt tab in System Information.app report for the Thunderbolt connection speed (link rate and link width)? "40 Gbps x1", "20 Gbps x1", or "10 Gbps x1" - it shouldn't matter since any of them should be able to do 700 MB/s read/write. I think the G-RAID comes with a 20 Gbps cable.

Upstream port lists "Up to 20 Gb/s x1, link width 0x2."
Cable is indeed a 20 Gbps cable but I swapped it for a 40 Gbps cable and speed only went up to 543/532.

If you connect the G-RAID using USB, what USB device (product and vendor ID) does it use? Does it have similar performance as Thunderbolt? It's USB 3.1 gen 2 so it should be able to do up to 1000 MB/s.

Did not test this yet.

 

[joevt]

Can't add HFS now that they've been formatted APFS.

Shrink the APFS partition to add an HFS+ partition?

I didn't see this info in the PCI tab. Vendor ID in Thunderbolt tab is 0xC

There should be a device in the PCI tab listed with Thunderbolt as the slot.
Otherwise, use ioreg, IORegistryExplorer.app, pcitree.sh, lspci (from pciutils), or FixPCIeLinkRate.efi to get a list of PCI devices.

Anyway, I am guess that the RAID chip is not very performant.
540 MB/s is the speed for a single SATA SSD. 540 MB/s is greater than PCIe 2.0 x1 (500 MB/s) so the chip is at least PCIE 2.0 x2 (1000 MB/s, ≈750 MB/s expected data throughput).

The fact that two of your SSDs in RAID 0 is less than 600 MB/s could mean that both devices are connected to a single SATA port using port multiplication? Or maybe it means the SATA ports are only 3 Gbps? Or maybe the RAID controller is negotiating a 3 Gbps connection instead of a 6 Gbps connection to your SSDs? You should be able to answer some of these questions by testing with a single drive or with RAID disabled (JBOD mode). In JBOD mode, macOS can see how each drive is connected.

 

[dawindmg08]

Shrink the APFS partition to add an HFS+ partition?

Cheers, that worked. Ran Amorphous on the HFS partition: 532/523

There should be a device in the PCI tab listed with Thunderbolt as the slot.

You originally said "Product ID" but it's listed as Device ID. 4 items listed under Thunderbolt:

1. AHCI Controller – vendor: Asustek ASMedia Tech, Device: CalDigit (this is the dock I use)
2. USB – vendor: Asustek ASMedia Tech, Device: Xenics nv
3. USB – vendor: Fresco Logic, Device: vehicle camera systems
4. USB – vendor: same as #3

(All via USB ID database –– https://the-sz.com/products/usbid/)

Testing individual disks: of course, just as I'm about to try that the GRAID configuration app won't take my admin password for some reason. So I can't test whether they're any faster as JBOD.

Someone else on another board brought up the fact that the unit is only officially rated to go up to 500 MB/s. I only assumed that was due to having HDDs installed but it could indeed be a limitation of the internal RAID controller not having a faster connection. I'm waiting to hear from the manufacturer about it.

 

[joevt]

Cheers, that worked. Ran Amorphous on the HFS partition: 532/523

You originally said "Product ID" but it's listed as Device ID. 4 items listed under Thunderbolt:

1. AHCI Controller – vendor: Asustek ASMedia Tech, Device: CalDigit (this is the dock I use)
2. USB – vendor: Asustek ASMedia Tech, Device: Xenics nv
3. USB – vendor: Fresco Logic, Device: vehicle camera systems
4. USB – vendor: same as #3

Need screenshots to know what you're looking at. Maybe I can find more info with the IDs using different sources. I'm pretty sure the G-RAID doesn't have a camera...

(All via USB ID database –– https://the-sz.com/products/usbid/)

Need PCI vendor ID/device ID when you're connected as Thunderbolt.

The following commands will get USB and PCI and Thunderbolt info. Post the results (two files, zip them in the finder and attach):

system_profiler SPPCIDataType SPThunderboltDataType SPUSBDataType SPSerialATADataType > system_profiler.txt
ioreg -liw0 | egrep ':IOPCIDevice|:IOPCIBridge|IOPCIExpressLink|"device-id"|"vendor-id"|"subsystem-|"class-code"|compatible' | sed -E 's/, id 0x.*//' > ioregpci.txt

Someone else on another board brought up the fact that the unit is only officially rated to go up to 500 MB/s. I only assumed that was due to having HDDs installed but it could indeed be a limitation of the internal RAID controller not having a faster connection. I'm waiting to hear from the manufacturer about it.

That's obviously false since you get more than 500 MB/s. Maybe 600 MB/s minus some overhead.[/icode][/code]

 

[dawindmg08]

Need screenshots to know what you're looking at. Maybe I can find more info with the IDs using different sources. I'm pretty sure the G-RAID doesn't have a camera...


Need PCI vendor ID/device ID when you're connected as Thunderbolt.

The following commands will get USB and PCI and Thunderbolt info. Post the results (two files, zip them in the finder and attach):

system_profiler SPPCIDataType SPThunderboltDataType SPUSBDataType SPSerialATADataType > system_profiler.txt
ioreg -liw0 | egrep ':IOPCIDevice|:IOPCIBridge|IOPCIExpressLink|"device-id"|"vendor-id"|"subsystem-|"class-code"|compatible' | sed -E 's/, id 0x.*//' > ioregpci.txt

That's obviously false since you get more than 500 MB/s. Maybe 600 MB/s minus some overhead.[/icode][/code]

Before I run through those commands to get that PCI info, are you absolutely sure that the PCI tab gives proper info on a Thunderbolt device? All of those listings may be for items plugged into my dock -- including an external webcam which may account for that weird camera ID. If I select the Thunderbolt tab I see the G-Tech very clearly and it has a completely different set of IDs that are not listed in PCI.

I'm attaching two screenshots -- one is a sample PCI and the other is the Thunderbolt listing.

 

[joevt]

Before I run through those commands to get that PCI info, are you absolutely sure that the PCI tab gives proper info on a Thunderbolt device? All of those listings may be for items plugged into my dock -- including an external webcam which may account for that weird camera ID. If I select the Thunderbolt tab I see the G-Tech very clearly and it has a completely different set of IDs that are not listed in PCI.

I'm attaching two screenshots -- one is a sample PCI and the other is the Thunderbolt listing.

The Thunderbolt tab only shows the hierarchy of Thunderbolt buses and Thunderbolt devices. It does not show what PCI or USB devices are connected to the Thunderbolt devices. The Thunderbolt Device ID and Vendor ID are specific to the set of Thunderbolt devices. They are not in the PCI or USB ids databases. But since the info included in a Thunderbolt device includes vendor name and device name, we don't need to look up the ids to know what it is.

The PCI tab should have info on PCI devices connected via Thunderbolt. The 1b73,1100 is a Fresco Logic FL1100 USB controller in a Thunderbolt device. Are there any other PCI devices listed? The FL1100 is a USB 3.0 USB controller which can't do more than ≈450 MB/s so that cannot be the controller for the RAID. macOS doesn't have a PCI vendor database so it doesn't show the vendor name. macOS does have a USB vendor database so it can show vendors for USB devices (in the USB tab of System Information.app).

 

[Ndaa75]

I've just purchased 2 x 2tb SSDs to replace my noisy hard drives.....will let you know how I get on if I'm able to get big sur 11.5 working with g raid thunderbolt configurator

 

[dawindmg08]

I've just purchased 2 x 2tb SSDs to replace my noisy hard drives.....will let you know how I get on if I'm able to get big sur 11.5 working with g raid thunderbolt configurator

Cool, yeah let me know what speeds you get. The Configurator was working at first in 11.3 so hopefully you won't have any problems.

 

[Ndaa75]

Cool, yeah let me know what speeds you get. The Configurator was working at first in 11.3 so hopefully you won't have any problems.

Getting same as you - but minus the noise still a plus....bit surprised it shares the the SATA connection TBH, thought these were premium products, I guess made cheaply sold for max price. The norm these days.

 

[Ndaa75]

DriveDx also incorrectly shows both SSD's as rotational drives & throws up and error under SMART.
As a consequence, TRIM doesn't look like it can be enabled either.

 

[joevt]

bit surprised it shares the the SATA connection TBH,

We don't know anything yet, because no info.

 

[Ndaa75]

We don't know anything yet, because no info.

We know the speeds of both single drive and RAID configurations which are about the same. Not sure what else we can do.

 

[joevt]

We know the speeds of both single drive and RAID configurations which are about the same. Not sure what else we can do.

Id the raid controller, then look up the manufacturer's specs.
Info from ioreg would be useful for doing that.
ioreg -lw0 > ioreg.txt

 

[Ndaa75]

Id the raid controller, then look up the manufacturer's specs.
Info from ioreg would be useful for doing that.
ioreg -lw0 > ioreg.txt

I’ll check later

 

[Ndaa75]

G ro

Id the raid controller, then look up the manufacturer's specs.
Info from ioreg would be useful for doing that.
ioreg -lw0 > ioreg.txt

Where does this document appear on the mac?

 

[Ndaa75]

Found it.....its large and cannot post it.....do you know where I should be looking for the info?

 

[Ndaa75]

io reg

 

[Ndaa75]

ioregpci

 

[Ndaa75]

system profiler

 

[Ndaa75]

pci1b21,625 ASMEDIA?

 

[Ndaa75]

JBOD config

 

[joevt]

pci1b21,625 ASMEDIA?

It must be an ASMedia ASM1062R. It's the only PCIe Gen 2 x2 RAID controller listed at https://www.asmedia.com.tw/products-list/8a2YQ99xzaUH2qg5/8A0yQ9Fsx6HuAsY2

Gen 2x2 means it should be able to do ≈750 MB/s.

I found one benchmark at https://www.legitreviews.com/asus-hyper-express-review-intel-z97_140391 which seems to confirm this.
There's also more pictures in an earlier preview article at https://www.legitreviews.com/asus-hyper-express-sata-express-drive-performance-preview_140186

The device being tested is the ASUS Hyper Express Drive which is a SATA Express drive, but internally it uses the ASM1062R to connect two mSATA SSDs.
They have a picture of the ASM1062R. Maybe you can find a similar chip in the G-RAID to confirm.

The two mSATA SSDs are reasonably fast - > 500 MB/s sequential read. The benchmark results start on page 3.

I guess what you need to do is try a benchmark like AmorphousDiskMark to see if you can get past the 600 MB/s barrier. That would prove that the RAID is not being limited by a single SATA connection. But you've already tried that...

Are you sure the raid is set to RAID 0 and not SPAN? Either one should have a total size that is equal to the sum of the sizes of the two SSDs but only the RAID 0 option will see a greater speed.

Maybe we need a benchmark of a single JBOD WD Blue 2.5" SSD to prove that it can work at greater than SATA II speed. Your system info dump for the JBOD setup seems to indicate that they are connecting at 6 Gbps but do they perform at that rate? Do a single disk test with Amorphous and ATTO. Then try an ATTO dual disk test.

EDIT: I may have gotten @dawindmg08 and @Ndaa75 mixed up but you both have similar hardware (at least the same G-RAID and the same or similar WD Blue 2TB drives).

 

[Ndaa75]

It must be an ASMedia ASM1062R. It's the only PCIe Gen 2 x2 RAID controller listed at https://www.asmedia.com.tw/products-list/8a2YQ99xzaUH2qg5/8A0yQ9Fsx6HuAsY2

Gen 2x2 means it should be able to do ≈750 MB/s.

I found one benchmark at https://www.legitreviews.com/asus-hyper-express-review-intel-z97_140391 which seems to confirm this.
There's also more pictures in an earlier preview article at https://www.legitreviews.com/asus-hyper-express-sata-express-drive-performance-preview_140186

The device being tested is the ASUS Hyper Express Drive which is a SATA Express drive, but internally it uses the ASM1062R to connect two mSATA SSDs.
They have a picture of the ASM1062R. Maybe you can find a similar chip in the G-RAID to confirm.

The two mSATA SSDs are reasonably fast - > 500 MB/s sequential read. The benchmark results start on page 3.

I guess what you need to do is try a benchmark like AmorphousDiskMark to see if you can get past the 600 MB/s barrier. That would prove that the RAID is not being limited by a single SATA connection. But you've already tried that...

Are you sure the raid is set to RAID 0 and not SPAN? Either one should have a total size that is equal to the sum of the sizes of the two SSDs but only the RAID 0 option will see a greater speed.

Maybe we need a benchmark of a single JBOD WD Blue 2.5" SSD to prove that it can work at greater than SATA II speed. Your system info dump for the JBOD setup seems to indicate that they are connecting at 6 Gbps but do they perform at that rate? Do a single disk test with Amorphous and ATTO. Then try an ATTO dual disk test.

EDIT: I may have gotten @dawindmg08 and @Ndaa75 mixed up but you both have similar hardware (at least the same G-RAID and the same or similar WD Blue 2TB drives).

Yep, disks are in RAID 0, as per the config.
AmorphousDiskMark attached for both drives in RAID 0. Single disk test (did earlier) comes in at around 450/500.

Any ideas?