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SDAVE

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Jun 16, 2007
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iOS 26 introduces a major development of highly detailed elements of glass, which includes refractions, gaussian blur, lighting and so on using high levels of the graphics prowess of the Apple silicone, all done in real time.

People who don't understand how complicated it is to render real glass in real time won't know that it will take MANY iterations of iOS to get to point of excellence.

Apple is looking at this as their UI for the next 10 years. People aren't going to be fully happy with iOS 26 even when the final builds come around. It will be around iOS 30 that it will settle in and people will get used to it and Apple will refine it over time.

Is the Dev beta buggy? Of course it is. Public betas will be much more stable.

Look at the bigger picture here. Many companies have been trying to do glass UI for over 30 years and Apple finally did it. Even Microsoft a few years ago tried to do it with great looking renders, but to actually pull it off is another story.

UI/UX design is very difficult, you have to be able to make it usable for all ages and humans from all walks of life should be able to use it easily.
 
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Go to Android then, enjoy the UI.

The only thing I can fault Apple right now is how behind they are in AI (Siri still sucks), but even then, I use primarily ChatGPT + the plethora of other AI tools that keep changing every day.
I will move to Android this year, actually. Not really for the looks, but for the utility and breaking away from the ecosystem. I am looking to e/OS which uses no Google services.

I think most people can appreciate how difficult it may be to render Liquid Glass. The main point of criticism is that a completely clear UI offers too little contrast. They have been making the glass look frosted with Beta 3 and it might look different again for final release. But it is wild to state that people should wait years and not expect full Apple quality from iOS 26.
 
Hit the nail on the head.

I've been thinking for a while that it might be beneficial for Apple to go back to model where it wasn't quite so easy/cheap for non-devs to install the dev betas. Too many folks using these early builds don't have the right perspective or understanding/expectations on what they're stepping in to.
 
I will move to Android this year, actually. Not really for the looks, but for the utility and breaking away from the ecosystem. I am looking to e/OS which uses no Google services.

I think most people can appreciate how difficult it may be to render Liquid Glass. The main point of criticism is that a completely clear UI offers too little contrast. They have been making the glass look frosted with Beta 3 and it might look different again for final release. But it is wild to state that people should wait years and not expect full Apple quality from iOS 26.

Android is trash, but enjoy it anyway. It's literally malware and the UI is pretty bad.

What are your criticism of Apple? You didn't disclose. If it's AI I agree with. If it's "no foldables yet" I don't agree with. No one cares about foldable phones.
 
Maybe I don't get it but LG doesn't let you do anything better or faster. It's difficult for me to get excited about cosmetic changes.

It's not just cosmetic changes, it unifies all their devices which they have been trying to do for ages. It also pushes how the future of UI will look like, mostly with wearables, etc. Phones have matured already, not much to push in that category.
 
I’ve decided not to judge the LG look until closer to release.

The version they showed, and the one in all the WWDC videos looks really nice.
I’m going with that’s what they are aiming for.

The official guidance and videos talk about all the bad things reported on the beta, and how that’s not a way to design UI - so they know the issues and would be a bit surprising for them to go against their own guidance.

But maybe i’m being too optimistic
 
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Android is trash, but enjoy it anyway. It's literally malware and the UI is pretty bad.
You are getting very defensive when I mention that I'm switching away from Apple, it is almost amusing.

What are your criticism of Apple? You didn't disclose. If it's AI I agree with. If it's "no foldables yet" I don't agree with. No one cares about foldable phones.
Why are you changing topics? I could happily critique the entirety of Apple, but what about my points on Liquid Glass? I think your assessment of a four-year roadmap to perfection is rather pessimistic coming from someone trying to defend Apple, would they not have learned from the past?
 
Maybe I don't get it but LG doesn't let you do anything better or faster. It's difficult for me to get excited about cosmetic changes.
I also don't get it. I don't feel like liquid glass has improved my quality of life. The UI still doesn't feel like it's ready. It needs more time to be refined. I wish Apple would delay it until next year. I'm trying to get used to LG, but it's frustrating.
 
iOS 26 introduces a major development of highly detailed elements of glass, which includes refractions, gaussian blur, lighting and so on using high levels of the graphics prowess of the Apple silicone, all done in real time.
But to what end? Other than looking different and adding complexity, what does it actually offer?

People who don't understand how complicated it is to render real glass in real time won't know that it will take MANY iterations of iOS to get to point of excellence.
But they figured out rendering the glass effect. That's not the problem. The problem is that in rendering the UI as transparent glass, they made it unusable.

Apple is looking at this as their UI for the next 10 years. People aren't going to be fully happy with iOS 26 even when the final builds come around. It will be around iOS 30 that it will settle in and people will get used to it and Apple will refine it over time.
One might argue that they shouldn't be shipping it if it's not ready yet.

Is the Dev beta buggy? Of course it is. Public betas will be much more stable.
Maybe I've missed them, butI haven't seen any bugs relating to liquid glass. The problems have largely been design issues, not dev issues.

Look at the bigger picture here. Many companies have been trying to do glass UI for over 30 years and Apple finally did it. Even Microsoft a few years ago tried to do it with great looking renders, but to actually pull it off is another story.
And? Just because other companies have failed at it doesn't make it worth doing.

UI/UX design is very difficult, you have to be able to make it usable for all ages and humans from all walks of life should be able to use it easily.
And in that lies the key issue. Liquid glass, along with many of the changes under Alan Dye, are not usable, or not as usable as what came before. Things are lower contrast, hidden behind hover states, made illegible for the sake of fancy effects, etc. UI and UX are hard, but Apple is making things even harder than they need to be with their poor design choices.
 
You are getting very defensive when I mention that I'm switching away from Apple, it is almost amusing.


Why are you changing topics? I could happily critique the entirety of Apple, but what about my points on Liquid Glass? I think your assessment of a four-year roadmap to perfection is rather pessimistic coming from someone trying to defend Apple, would they not have learned from the past?

How am I defensive? Capitalism allows you to do as you please. Enjoy the ride lmao

I've been with Apple since the 90s, I know how they work. I have even done things for them at high levels. Apple is an iterative company, they don't randomly do things like all these other companies which show off great demos, but in reality they are fun demos.

I can also criticize them, I have many complaints. You have the right do that as well. Also no one is changing the topic, I have no idea what you're saying tbh.

Do you have any better ideas? Go ahead and spill it.

There's a million design languages they could've gone with but they chose the one with the growing pains and congenital deformities.
Aqua was also liquid, but now they are doing real LG which their processors can handle with ease. They're going back to their roots of the first release of Mac OS X. Before that it was platinum.

But to what end? Other than looking different and adding complexity, what does it actually offer?

What would you like it to offer? Send them feedback. It's not a simple reskin and they're not putting lipstick on a pig like Microsoft does year after year. Android is also the same, the latest UI updates are pretty ugly and unusable imo. It looks like a Gen Z designers wet dream. They aren't improving quality of life.

But they figured out rendering the glass effect. That's not the problem. The problem is that in rendering the UI as transparent glass, they made it unusable.

Are you on the dev beta? It's clearly not just rendering of glass. It's more complicated than that. Give it time it will get better.


One might argue that they shouldn't be shipping it if it's not ready yet.

It's Dev beta, dude. They are not shipping .0 until September. It's still very buggy and slow even on my iPhone 16 Pro. I keep sending them feedback just like thousands of others do every new iOS release. It will get better.

Maybe I've missed them, butI haven't seen any bugs relating to liquid glass. The problems have largely been design issues, not dev issues.

It's buggy and slow, as Dev beta's always are. I, frankly, as a designer and user welcome these new changes.

And? Just because other companies have failed at it doesn't make it worth doing.

Because for other companies they love making tech demos that doesn't make quality of life better. Apple actually adds functions that help life better. AirDrop, Continuity....I can go on and on.

Do other companies have fancy 200x zoom lenses? Sure. But who cares? We're talking about hardware at this stage, not UI. The topic at hand is software.

And in that lies the key issue. Liquid glass, along with many of the changes under Alan Dye, are not usable, or not as usable as what came before. Things are lower contrast, hidden behind hover states, made illegible for the sake of fancy effects, etc. UI and UX are hard, but Apple is making things even harder than they need to be with their poor design choices.

I don't like Alan Dye, but he's not at fault here. The technical things will be fixed, send feedback if you're a developer.
 
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What would you like it to offer? Send them feedback. It's not a simple reskin and they're not putting lipstick on a pig like Microsoft does year after year. Android is also the same, the latest UI updates are pretty ugly and unusable imo. It looks like a Gen Z designers wet dream. They aren't improving quality of life.
Benefits of some kind. Improved legibility. Reduced overhead. Something. It's not my job to solve their problems.

I strongly disagree about the Material 3 design being ugly though. It's playful, colourful and customisable but can be toned down, highly legible, uses movement well. It basically hits many of the points I think Apple fails to hit with Liquid Glass. I'm not saying Apple has to do exactly what Google is doing, but they seems to be going in the wrong direction on multiple fronts.

Are you on the dev beta? It's clearly not just rendering of glass. It's more complicated than that. Give it time it will get better.
I'm not. Can you give examples of what you mean? I'm saying rendering glass is not their issues, so if you think it is then I'm interested to see where they're failing at that.

It's Dev beta, dude. They are not shipping .0 until September. It's still very buggy and slow even on my iPhone 16 Pro. I keep sending them feedback just like thousands of others do every new iOS release. It will get better.
Dev betas are for fixing development issues, they should not be where the underlying design systems are worked out. That stuff should be pretty solid before it makes it out the door in any form. And regardless, you're the one saying we should expect it to take years for them to get it right from a design perspective. That's straight-up not ready to me.

It's buggy and slow, as Dev beta's always are. I, frankly, as a designer and user welcome these new changes.
Liquid glass is slow? Are you sure we're talking about the same thing?

I'm also interested in what sort of design you do? While I'm not a designer myself, I've worked extensively with designers from all sorts of disciplines, from advertising and branding, web design, app design, to physical and digital product design, etc. Designer friends I've spoken to about liquid glass have almost universally had very few good things to say about it.

Because for other companies they love making tech demos that doesn't make quality of life better. Apple actually adds functions that help life better. AirDrop, Continuity....I can go on and on.

Do other companies have fancy 200x zoom lenses? Sure. But who cares? We're talking about hardware at this stage, not UI. The topic at hand is software.
You're kind of proving my previous point. I expect design to make the product better. Liquid glass is not making anything better, and if anything it's making it worse in many ways. It's the ultimate UI tech demo. They figured they could render this glass effect and decided to ship it regardless of what it does to the user experience.

I don't like Alan Dye, but he's not at fault here. The technical things will be fixed, send feedback if you're a developer.
He's in charge of design, and design during his tenure (even before Liquid Glass) has increasingly had usability issues and bad design choices. If he's not responsible, who is? I'm not a developer, nor do I see it as my job to solve Apple's design issues for free.
 
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iOS 26 introduces a major development of highly detailed elements of glass, which includes refractions, gaussian blur, lighting and so on using high levels of the graphics prowess of the Apple silicone, all done in real time.
Overcoming technical challenges to degrade interface usability isn't the win you seem to think it is. And if they REALLY wanted to show off, they'd base the design on water, not glass. Make it not just transparent but also ripply! Every time you switch apps, you have to wait for the waves to settle! They could call it Liquid Liquid. (Call me, Apple, I have ideas!)
 
Benefits of some kind. Improved legibility. Reduced overhead. Something. It's not my job to solve their problems.

As mentioned earlier, Apple is an iterative company. They don't release features unless it seems like it will help people. They never invented the first touch screen, the first digital music player, etc. If you understand the Apple ethos from day one you will realize this. Steve died and mobile phones have peaked just like computers have, so we don't have anyone at the top shaking things up and not worrying about failing. UI redesign doesnt really have major benefits, but there are some very cool new iOS26 features that will help people day to day.

I strongly disagree about the Material 3 design being ugly though. It's playful, colourful and customisable but can be toned down, highly legible, uses movement well. It basically hits many of the points I think Apple fails to hit with Liquid Glass. I'm not saying Apple has to do exactly what Google is doing, but they seems to be going in the wrong direction on multiple fronts.

As a high level designer, Material 3 looks pretty cheap. It will look more dated in a year or two, not to mention that Android, the only competitor to iOS, has so many different UI layouts due to different OEMs tweaking their layout the way they want. Example, Samsung's version of Android looks totally different than lets say another brand. I don't think LG is in the wrong direction, I just think this first pass is very rough and it will get better over time. The only thing I hate is how they stretch the fonts when you're dragging a context menu, which is a big no no in the design field. And the dimming will get better I think dark mode needs a lot of tweaking.

Dev betas are for fixing development issues, they should not be where the underlying design systems are worked out. That stuff should be pretty solid before it makes it out the door in any form. And regardless, you're the one saying we should expect it to take years for them to get it right from a design perspective. That's straight-up not ready to me.

No, Dev betas are not just for squashing bugs, they are also modifying the dimming, etc. Dev Beta 3 looks different than Dev Beta 1. If you watch the Dev tech demos, those are the designs that Apple would like to get to, but iOS26 will most likely not get to that level as 2 months is not enough. The tech demos are superb.

Liquid glass is slow? Are you sure we're talking about the same thing?

I'm talking about the beta being slow.

You're kind of proving my previous point. I expect design to make the product better. Liquid glass is not making anything better, and if anything it's making it worse in many ways. It's the ultimate UI tech demo. They figured they could render this glass effect and decided to ship it regardless of what it does to the user experience.

You still haven't brought up any good points tbh. When we went from Platinum to Aqua, it was a huge jump. The OS (under the hood) completely changed and the interface made it extremely user friendly for new comers. It redefined the 2000s. But these were the days that computers were still maturing. We are at the information highway age where no amount of UI updates will please anybody because computers and phones have peaked over all.

LG is not supposed to make anything better, it's supposed to unify all of Apple's devices as one. It is also supposed to set the future tone of content awareness, as in the future is the visibility of content consumption. That is, the glass/transparency lets the user focus on the content and let the UI disappear. This is setting up for the inevitable evolution to glass displays, wearables, holograms, etc. Why do you think Meta and Google are investing huge amounts of money into wearable companies like Gentle Monster and Meta with Ray-ban, Oakley and now investments into Luxottica (The world's largest glass manufacturer)?

Think bigger, not smaller.

He's in charge of design, and design during his tenure (even before Liquid Glass) has increasingly had usability issues and bad design choices. If he's not responsible, who is? I'm not a developer, nor do I see it as my job to solve Apple's design issues for free.

He still has to answer to his managers and stakeholders. There are thousands of employees under Dye and many direct reports, it's not as simple as you make it out to be.


Overcoming technical challenges to degrade interface usability isn't the win you seem to think it is. And if they REALLY wanted to show off, they'd base the design on water, not glass. Make it not just transparent but also ripply! Every time you switch apps, you have to wait for the waves to settle! They could call it Liquid Liquid. (Call me, Apple, I have ideas!)

I never said it's a win or lose. My point was that this is what we have right now for UI uniformity across all Apple products, which I welcome. We used to have Ripples on early days of Widges on Mac OS X, and it wasn't that great looking and it took too much time to get a response.

LG is not perfect and won't be for a while. Neither is current version of iOS. Nothing is every going to be perfect, but this is what we have.
 
As mentioned earlier, Apple is an iterative company. They don't release features unless it seems like it will help people. They never invented the first touch screen, the first digital music player, etc. If you understand the Apple ethos from day one you will realize this. Steve died and mobile phones have peaked just like computers have, so we don't have anyone at the top shaking things up and not worrying about failing. UI redesign doesnt really have major benefits, but there are some very cool new iOS26 features that will help people day to day.
This is a lot of words to basically agree that there's no benefit to liquid glass from a user perspective.

As a high level designer, Material 3 looks pretty cheap. It will look more dated in a year or two, not to mention that Android, the only competitor to iOS, has so many different UI layouts due to different OEMs tweaking their layout the way they want. Example, Samsung's version of Android looks totally different than lets say another brand. I don't think LG is in the wrong direction, I just think this first pass is very rough and it will get better over time. The only thing I hate is how they stretch the fonts when you're dragging a context menu, which is a big no no in the design field. And the dimming will get better I think dark mode needs a lot of tweaking.
I'm not seeing anything that looks cheap on that link you shared. Happy for you to highlight things you think look cheap if this isn an important point to you.

No, Dev betas are not just for squashing bugs, they are also modifying the dimming, etc. Dev Beta 3 looks different than Dev Beta 1. If you watch the Dev tech demos, those are the designs that Apple would like to get to, but iOS26 will most likely not get to that level as 2 months is not enough. The tech demos are superb.
"Modifying the dimming, etc" are small tweaks. Liquid Glass needs way more than small tweaks to be usable. Even in the liquid glass design video they put up around WWDC, it was riddled with usability issues. I could see what they were going for, but on the whole it was still not great.

I'm talking about the beta being slow.
But the thread is about liquid glass. Betas being slow is irrelevant to bad design

You still haven't brought up any good points tbh. When we went from Platinum to Aqua, it was a huge jump. The OS (under the hood) completely changed and the interface made it extremely user friendly for new comers. It redefined the 2000s. But these were the days that computers were still maturing. We are at the information highway age where no amount of UI updates will please anybody because computers and phones have peaked over all.

LG is not supposed to make anything better, it's supposed to unify all of Apple's devices as one. It is also supposed to set the future tone of content awareness, as in the future is the visibility of content consumption. That is, the glass/transparency lets the user focus on the content and let the UI disappear. This is setting up for the inevitable evolution to glass displays, wearables, holograms, etc. Why do you think Meta and Google are investing huge amounts of money into wearable companies like Gentle Monster and Meta with Ray-ban, Oakley and now investments into Luxottica (The world's largest glass manufacturer)?

Think bigger, not smaller.
I have, but you've dodged them and instead focused on handwaving away the tangible issues because of some notion that past design wins mean anything for future design success. You say liquid glass isn't supposed to make things better, but is it supposed to make it worse? Because that's where we're at now. Apple talks about making the content the focus, but then implement awful solutions like blurring and mirroring the edges of content to fill now-empty space, or introducing a design system that can't account for apps when the UI is the content. Not everything is a video player, many apps don't have "content".

You're letting this all off the hook because you're imagining products that don't exist yet, and deciding that imagined future products should excuse terrible usability now. I think that's a bad way to think. Apple is a big company, they have the resources to plan for new devices in-house while leaving their existing ones unmolested by awful design.

He still has to answer to his managers and stakeholders. There are thousands of employees under Dye and many direct reports, it's not as simple as you make it out to be.
Dude, come on. If we're not holding the guy in charge of design responsible for design then why have these roles? Should we just have Tim Cook at the top and a flat org chart under him? Dye's job comes with responsibility, it's not a symbolic role.

Dye should, at the very least, be the filter that stops bad ideas from being seen by people above him. So either he believes that these bad ideas and bad designs are good, or he isn't an effective filter. Either way, it's not a good look.
 
iOS 26 introduces a major development of highly detailed elements of glass, which includes refractions, gaussian blur, lighting and so on using high levels of the graphics prowess of the Apple silicone, all done in real time.

People who don't understand how complicated it is to render real glass in real time won't know that it will take MANY iterations of iOS to get to point of excellence.

Apple is looking at this as their UI for the next 10 years. People aren't going to be fully happy with iOS 26 even when the final builds come around. It will be around iOS 30 that it will settle in and people will get used to it and Apple will refine it over time.

Is the Dev beta buggy? Of course it is. Public betas will be much more stable.

Look at the bigger picture here. Many companies have been trying to do glass UI for over 30 years and Apple finally did it. Even Microsoft a few years ago tried to do it with great looking renders, but to actually pull it off is another story.

UI/UX design is very difficult, you have to be able to make it usable for all ages and humans from all walks of life should be able to use it easily.
Why should I care how complicated it is? Not even remotely interested in the experiments of UI/UX designers to justify their continued employment. I want a user interface designed for the user, not the designers.
 
This is a lot of words to basically agree that there's no benefit to liquid glass from a user perspective.

There's no benefit to having more than a few models of cars or furniture either...beyond people having different tastes and desires.

Users could navigate just fine with a text menu, or command prompts. But most people prefer something nicer.

LG is still early days but I'm confident they'll get it right enough before ship, and continue to iterate on it.
 
There's no benefit to having more than a few models of cars or furniture either...beyond people having different tastes and desires.
Not sure how this relates to anything being said. I'm not criticising liquid glass for being different, I'm criticising it for being bad.

Users could navigate just fine with a text menu, or command prompts. But most people prefer something nicer.
At this point a text menu might be an improvement in terms of legibility. But again, I'm not criticising liquid glass for being fancy, I'm criticising it for being bad.

LG is still early days but I'm confident they'll get it right enough before ship, and continue to iterate on it.
They might. In fact, I really hope they do. But from what I've seen so far it seems like either they're really struggling or they're doing an incredible job of hiding a more polished and well-thought out design system.
 
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