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Going above 64GB of RAM in new MP

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Foxdog175

macrumors regular
Original poster
Apr 3, 2008
149
68
With only 4 slots, I assume that most people will only be buying 16 or 32 gig modules (since it's not a good idea to mix/match 16's/32's with anything lower).

If you were to buy 16's and max out at 64 gigs...say in 3-4 years if you wanted to expand on that, you would have to replace all of the 16's for 32's, correct? Wouldn't it make more sense just to buy 1 or 2 32's for future expandability?

I've been looking around for 32g modules to get an idea of cost, but haven't found any. Can someone provide any insight and links to them?
 
Why would you need 64 GB of RAM at this point in time? Excluding server usage.... Just buying 4x16GB modules is around $550-$750 on NewEgg.

They don't even sell 32GB modules just yet. Also, these are 1600MHz and a rather high 11 ms latency.
 
Foxdog175 said:
If you were to buy 16's and max out at 64 gigs...say in 3-4 years if you wanted to expand on that, you would have to replace all of the 16's for 32's, correct?
Click to expand...

Current 32GB DIMMs are Load Reduced DIMMs and can't be mixed with normal Registered or Unbuffered DIMMs. 16GB LR-DIMMs are in production, though they are about twice the price because of limited demand.

Wouldn't it make more sense just to buy 1 or 2 32's for future expandability?
Click to expand...

No because 32GB DIMMs are 2-3 times the price per GB at slower speeds. Faster speeds will come, 1866MHz modules are in production, but who knows when they will actually be available or for a reasonable price.

I've been looking around for 32g modules to get an idea of cost, but haven't found any. Can someone provide any insight and links to them?
Click to expand...

Look up model numbers and search for them. Micron, Hynix and Samsung have great websites for finding parts.

For 1333MHz 32GB LR-DIMMs:
Hynix is part number: HMT84GL7MMR4A-H9
Samsung: M393B4G70BM0-YH9
Micron, via Crucial: CT32G3ELSLQ41339

memory4less have them at ~$1,050, and Crucial sell theirs for the same. As usual Superbiiz are much cheaper at $550 for the Samsung one.

http://www.memory4less.com/m4l_itemdetail.aspx?itemid=1465877785
http://www.crucial.com/store/partspecs.aspx?IMODULE=CT32G3ELSLQ41339
https://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=D313LR32GS

jav6454 said:
Why would you need 64 GB of RAM at this point in time? Excluding server usage.... Just buying 4x16GB modules is around $550-$750 on NewEgg.
Click to expand...

RAM disk or VMs would probably be the most common interest for users on this forum, but if you work with big data then more memory can give smoother performance, and if you are working with data that can eat up that sort of RAM capacity then the cost is likely not the issue.

http://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2012/20120725_3-MacPro-80GB-memory-Photoshop-usage.html

They don't even sell 32GB modules just yet.
Click to expand...

Super Micro reconfigured their lineup for LR-DIMMs back in 2011 if I remember right. They've been around some time.

Also for anyone wondering, no LR-DIMMs won't work in existing Mac Pros.
 
Last edited:
hamiltonDSi said:
And I thought 16GB is more then enough...
Click to expand...

16 GB is not enough if your are running large video or photoshop files.

I have 32GB of ram in a 2009 MP (2x2.26) and any PS files over 5-6 GB...
...(I work with files up to 18-20GB will hit scratch disk(s) and virtual memory hard.
Save times and certain filtering/and work tasks slow down considerably.
(also 480GB SSD boot drive and 2x 480GB accelsior PCI SSD as dedicated work and scratch disks)

Also running a 2010 6-core 3.33 which is maxed out @48GB of ram (similar HD specs).
It runs out of steam @ around 10GB files sizes.

Am in the process of upgrading 2009 to 2x2.93 CPU's and upgrading ram
to 96GB.

Some of us actually use our professional MP workstations to do professional things
so we can make a living...
...And to answer your statement, we need way more than 16 or 32GB of ram...
 
I run several VM's for trainng and POC testing and can't wait for Mavericks to fully utilize the 128gb of ram.
 
Well....

32 GB sticks do exist. And a number of makers are a year or so making them, most notably Samsung, that in 2012 stated they develop the first 32 GB stick. But I not remenber the specific kind of RAM the new Pro will use. So price can be from near $300 to $1100....:eek:.....:(


:):apple:
 
Foxdog175 said:
With only 4 slots, I assume that most people will only be buying 16 or 32 gig modules (since it's not a good idea to mix/match 16's/32's with anything lower).

If you were to buy 16's and max out at 64 gigs...say in 3-4 years if you wanted to expand on that, you would have to replace all of the 16's for 32's, correct? Wouldn't it make more sense just to buy 1 or 2 32's for future expandability?

I've been looking around for 32g modules to get an idea of cost, but haven't found any. Can someone provide any insight and links to them?
Click to expand...

I guess most people will be installing 4 or 8GB modules. 32 is the new 16?
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1598539/

16GB is enough for most things. 32GB is enough for anything (currently). 24GB is a nice middle ground. 48GB is overkill for anything anyone is likely to do with their MacPro. 64GB is just silly IMO - maybe if you needed a few RAM Drives or something, I dunno.

24GB is achieved with two 4GB and two 8GB modules.
48GB is achieved with two 8GB and two 16GB modules.

16GB is how many hours of 1080p/30 @ 4:4:4 ? Like 2 hours or something?
 
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Just curious do you think the new mac pro will accept non-ecc ram like the current mac pros?
 
So technically if he wanted to fill up the ram slots he could use non-ecc ram which is cheaper. Its just that there will be no error correction.
 
MacMadness said:
[specspecspecspec]
Some of us actually use our professional MP workstations to do professional things
Click to expand...

the size of the tool has little to no bearing on whether or not a professional service or product has been achieved..

thinking along those lines is saying nothing more than 'a sculpture created with a chainsaw is better than a sculpture created with a chisel'


[just to be clear- you're talking about photoshop right? when did they 64bit it? cs5? and it's now at cs6?
so what did all those professional mp workstation users doing professional things do before that? or were they just amateur hobbyists that knew nothing about real-man-ram like u do?]
 
Last edited:
mrsavage1 said:
So technically if he wanted to fill up the ram slots he could use non-ecc ram which is cheaper. Its just that there will be no error correction.
Click to expand...

Sure, ECC memory is pushing a 25% price premium at the moment so if you wanted 32GB then ECC memory is looking like $60-$70 more with today's memory pricing levels. Paying that extra though you could get 32GB and then have room for another 32GB by using two 16GB DIMMs.
 
Thanks!

Hey Guys,

Thanks so much for all of the replies. To give you a little insight, I work on massive PS files for 8-10 hours a day on top of my hobbies (lifelong musician using pro tools and occasionally making youtube videos with premiere). Usually a few times a week, I'll need to purge inactive memory to free some up.

My main concern with the new MP is the lack of memory slots (4 vs the 8 we're used to having). If there were 8, I wouldn't even need to ask questions. I know that 32 gigs will cover me, but being that this will likely be a very large investment (mp, hd/dvd enclosure, extra ram, etc.) and based on its expandability and longevity, I want to make sure it's future-proofed. If there's ever a reason I'd ever need to go above 64 gigs of RAM, I wouldn't be crazy about having to rip out all of my 16 gig modules and start replacing them with 32's.

That said, based on the comments above, it sounds like 32 gig modules just aren't worth the cost (to anyone who doesn't need them right now). I'll start with 16's and work from there. I'd think that in 4 years time, 32 gig mods will be more in line with lower capacity mods in terms of $:gigabyte.

Now I know Apple charges a premium for extra RAM, but I've been hard-pressed to find even 16g modules. Nothing came up on NewEgg when I specifically looked for that capacity. Do you guys have any recommendations? Also, how valuable would 1866 be vs the lower speeds we have now? Mine, for example, in my 08 MP, is DDR2 800MHz.

Thanks again for your expertise.
 
mrsavage1 said:
So technically if he wanted to fill up the ram slots he could use non-ecc ram which is cheaper. Its just that there will be no error correction.
Click to expand...

They don't make 32GB non-ECC DIMM's that I'm aware of but I live a sheltered life sooooo….

Foxdog175 said:
Hey Guys,

Thanks so much for all of the replies. To give you a little insight, I work on massive PS files for 8-10 hours a day on top of my hobbies (lifelong musician using pro tools and occasionally making youtube videos with premiere). Usually a few times a week, I'll need to purge inactive memory to free some up.

My main concern with the new MP is the lack of memory slots (4 vs the 8 we're used to having). If there were 8, I wouldn't even need to ask questions. I know that 32 gigs will cover me, but being that this will likely be a very large investment (mp, hd/dvd enclosure, extra ram, etc.) and based on its expandability and longevity, I want to make sure it's future-proofed. If there's ever a reason I'd ever need to go above 64 gigs of RAM, I wouldn't be crazy about having to rip out all of my 16 gig modules and start replacing them with 32's.

That said, based on the comments above, it sounds like 32 gig modules just aren't worth the cost (to anyone who doesn't need them right now). I'll start with 16's and work from there. I'd think that in 4 years time, 32 gig mods will be more in line with lower capacity mods in terms of $:gigabyte.

Now I know Apple charges a premium for extra RAM, but I've been hard-pressed to find even 16g modules. Nothing came up on NewEgg when I specifically looked for that capacity. Do you guys have any recommendations? Also, how valuable would 1866 be vs the lower speeds we have now? Mine, for example, in my 08 MP, is DDR2 800MHz.

Thanks again for your expertise.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't worry over it too much were a long way from needing more than 64GB for any of the project you talk about. Today I just had to make some adjustments to a 354 layer 7.67GB map. I give PS 32GB and created an 8GB RAM disk as scratch disk and still did not use up my 48GB. Now if I had been playing in final cut at the same time there'd have been issues but..


Either way I wouldn't worry over the RAM ceiling too much
 
Tesselator said:
I guess most people will be installing 4 or 8GB modules. 32 is the new 16?
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1598539/

16GB is enough for most things. 32GB is enough for anything (currently). 24GB is a nice middle ground. 48GB is overkill for anything anyone is likely to do with their MacPro. 64GB is just silly IMO - maybe if you needed a few RAM Drives or something, I dunno.

24GB is achieved with two 4GB and two 8GB modules.
48GB is achieved with two 8GB and two 16GB modules.

16GB is how many hours of 1080p/30 @ 4:4:4 ? Like 2 hours or something?
Click to expand...

32GB isn't enough for everything. I have map and images that need to be all in ram to be processed that are bigger than 32GB...
 
tuxon86 said:
32GB isn't enough for everything. I have map and images that need to be all in ram to be processed that are bigger than 32GB...
Click to expand...

Totally agree, I frequently have 3D magnetic resonance images running in the 30-60GB range open, I believe it will be a matter of time when the detail gained from new equipment will have us handling files over 64GB.
 
Tesselator said:
16GB is how many hours of 1080p/30 @ 4:4:4 ? Like 2 hours or something?
Click to expand...

More like 2 minutes. If for example you are doing a RAM preview in AE, the stream has to be UNcompressed. Especially for AE, the RAM requirements have virtually no ceiling. More is always better. Just think of uncompressed 4k sizes.
 
tuxon86 said:
32GB isn't enough for everything. I have map and images that need to be all in ram to be processed that are bigger than 32GB...
Click to expand...

Yeah, it happens. But it's abnormal I think. A 400 (four hundred) megapixel (that's 20,000 x 20,000 pixels in sqr format) in RAW 12 bpp is only 600MB in RAM. Sure if you layer that 50 times with full sized layers in PS or something you've hit the 30GB mark and it might at that point begin using the VM system. But I guess almost no one does this.

For CG 3D modeling the Apps them selves have become pretty smart using a specialized kind of instancing is a way where in Max & Maya for example a multi billion (with a "b") vertex model can easily be displayed and animated in about 8 GB of RAM (including the App and the OS).

So with such a model you could map 20 or 30 such textures as mentioned above and still be way less than using all 32GB of the RAM - probably around 12GB would be needed.

Still, you're right... it does happen. you can model and map yourself into a corner pretty quickly these days. Especially with HDRs and polygonal based engines.
 
Tesselator said:
Yeah, it happens. But it's abnormal I think. A 400 (four hundred) megapixel (that's 20,000 x 20,000 pixels in sqr format) in RAW 12 bpp is only 600MB in RAM. Sure if you layer that 50 times with full sized layers in PS or something you've hit the 30GB mark and it might at that point begin using the VM system. But I guess almost no one does this. ...
Click to expand...
Flawed assumption here. Pictures have to be converted from raw to be able to be viewed. Depending on which photo editor you are using, you may have the raw file and the viewable image which can be either 8bits per color per pixel or 16 bits per color per pixel. Which means an image is 1.2 or 2.4 GB in ram for the viewable image. And there are times when a program will keep more than 1 copy of an image in memory. If you regularly handled 400mp raw images, you would probably be looking at 32GB or 64GB as the reasonable size for memory.
 
frankiee said:
More like 2 minutes. If for example you are doing a RAM preview in AE, the stream has to be UNcompressed. Especially for AE, the RAM requirements have virtually no ceiling. More is always better. Just think of uncompressed 4k sizes.
Click to expand...

Well, 4K is almost 16 times the data as 1080p. :p So ya if you're playback a 4K vid file from RAM then for sure. But do 4K video editors do that? I would hope not at least. :(

You're right though, I was thinking compressed while talking uncompressed :eek:.

1920 x 1080 x 8bpc x 30 at 4:4:4 is 186.62 MB/s
So one minute of that would be about 11.2 GB
4:2:2 at 24 FPS would be almost exactly half that.

Compressed recording formats would give me the hours I was thinking of tho. :p

Sorry about that. :D

----------
Bear said:
Flawed assumption here.
Click to expand...

Damn! two in a row! :p

20,000 x 20,000 demosiaced to 8bpc is like you say 1.2 GB, not 600 MB. :eek:
 
Last edited:
Cisco_Kid said:
Totally agree, I frequently have 3D magnetic resonance images running in the 30-60GB range open, I believe it will be a matter of time when the detail gained from new equipment will have us handling files over 64GB.
Click to expand...

How common are 3D MRIs if I may ask?
 
Tesselator said:
Yeah, it happens. But it's abnormal I think. A 400 (four hundred) megapixel (that's 20,000 x 20,000 pixels in sqr format) in RAW 12 bpp is only 600MB in RAM. Sure if you layer that 50 times with full sized layers in PS or something you've hit the 30GB mark and it might at that point begin using the VM system. But I guess almost no one does this.

For CG 3D modeling the Apps them selves have become pretty smart using a specialized kind of instancing is a way where in Max & Maya for example a multi billion (with a "b") vertex model can easily be displayed and animated in about 8 GB of RAM (including the App and the OS).

So with such a model you could map 20 or 30 such textures as mentioned above and still be way less than using all 32GB of the RAM - probably around 12GB would be needed.

Still, you're right... it does happen. you can model and map yourself into a corner pretty quickly these days. Especially with HDRs and polygonal based engines.
Click to expand...

We're not talking about a flat file photo here but topological maps with all the data that goes with it. You do know that workstations are used for other thing than simple photography?

----------
Tesselator said:
How common are 3D MRIs if I may ask?
Click to expand...

Plenty in research and engineering...
 
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